Well, it's always been the 360's advantage over the PS3 - it has the ability to be switched from the one format to the other, should the need arise.

I called this years back, before the format war really got going.

@Step666:

Dude WTF?! Funniest comment of 08 so far!

You are being facetious, right?

Right....?

@Step666: Riiiiight. Except with more 360s sold than PS3s (and with a year head start) you can't help but wonder what would have happened if each one of those 360s had an HD-DVD drive in it. This whole thing may have turned out differently.

"[i]Microsoft may be releasing a Blu-ray-based Xbox 360[i/]" I just bought an Elite and now I have to update my console again? Why not release another add on drive (THIS MAKES MORE SENSE)...........

@Neoistheone2000: ohh yeah forgot to add I think its funny that majornelson didn't say anything in his weekly pod cast about HDDVD.

i dont know about built-in blu-ray on the 360 but an add on seems more realistic.

well at least i hope it will be an add-on

No, not facetious and, yes, I did.

Ages ago when the 360 was out and the PS3 was still coming soon, I was chatting to a couple of friends and we got onto the BluRay in PS3s vs HD-DVD with the 360s argument.
A friend of mine said that the PS3 had the advantage as it had the 'superior' BluRay drive and I said that the 360 was the more flexible console as, due to the HD-DVD drive being a separate unit, it would be possible for MS to make a standalone BluRay drive for it as well.

Ok, when talking about it, at that point I didn't foresee the situation we're in just now, with BluRay having beaten HD-DVD, I personally figured the format war would last longer and that MS would straddle the fance (in a manner of speaking) to make the 360 more appealing to a greater audience.
But the point still stands.


@theespacepope: clearly, had MS backed HD-DVD more aggressively, things could well have turned out differently but that doesn't invalidate my past musings that MS, by leaving the HD-DVD drive out of the 360, had left themselves to opportunity to 'go blue' at a later date.

The only reason Blue-Ray has won is because fanatics out there supported sonys PS3, when they should have boycotted sony. As sony has only been interested in bleeding us dry of our money, in its third installment of the playstation. I even remember reading in statements supposidly made by sony that PS3 was about promoting Blue-Ray and not about the gamer. Shame they moved away from their original idea of doing it for the gamer.

What really bugs me though is all this talk of Blue-Ray 2.

I hope if MS do get Blue-Ray, they have it as an add on drive.

This is the biggest example of the old Microsoft (80's - early 90's), to the new post-DOJ/New Millennium Microsoft.

The Old one would have just made the deal with Toshiba, et al, and put an HD-DVD drive in the console in an effort to push a standard - and agreeing with earlier posts, things may have turned out differently.

But the newer generation of Microsoft managers (talking Busn Unit Mgrs., GM's, some VPs) are more tempered by a combination of conservatism brought on by cont'd government scrutiny worldwide, plus the lethargy of bureaucracy. Seeing a potential Format War on the horizon, it was a MUCH safer bet for them career-wise to attempt to sound smart and design for external drives, as STEP666 pointed to. That way, in case they lost to Format War, they wouldn't end up with what would suddenly appear to be an obsolete console in millions of living rooms. Old MS would have chosen the fought in the War themselves -- this way they were able to take a position like Italy, circa WWII.

Secondly, don't forget that it factored into an economic position as well - the XBox division *just recently* became profitable. Had they chosen earlier on to put the more expensive HD-DVD drive into the box, that profit threshold would still be out in the future somewhere, PLUS it would be sucking down even MORE cash to back HD-DVD's position in the Format War.

While I personally despise having that dangling hunk o' plastic drive connected to my XBox, it is better than having an internal one that's obsolete.

@Step666:

MS left the HD DVD drive off the 360 because it would have delayed their precious early launch and raised the price of the unit by 200 bucks. Bang, there would have gone their only advantage: a year with no direct competition and a low price.

Way to make a failure and mistake look like a success and benefit. Or at least try to.

Ok, without sounding too stupid... I know, impossible... my understanding is as follows:

Both HD and BR use the same laser with a slightly different set of optics

The 360 add on HD DVD drive is run via software on the 360.

Why not have BR emulation software on the 360 work with the existing HDDVD drive?

Begin throwing vegetables in 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 ...

Let's not forget though, a good part of the reason more 360s were sold than PS3s were quality of games (particularly early on), launch date (MS won big time there), and price.

If MS had included an HD-DVD drive in the 360, undoubtedly the 360 would have shipped later and for considerably more, potentially (and likely) dooming it to a distant third in the console race this generation.

@DelSource: Ooops I just saw you said all that. But anybody who calls the 360 a 'failure' and a 'mistake' is wearing Sony PlayGoggles.

Don't believe these rumors. David Richards, the author of the piece, is a noted plagiarist. see: [tinyurl.com]

Of course if they make a 360 with a BRD they will make an add on as well silly.

@DelSource: I'm not saying they should've put a HD-DVD drive into the 360 and I realise that the reasons why they didn't are as you listed.

But, as I've said already, that has the advantageous side-effect that, despite having backed the loser in the HD-DVD/BluRay fight, the 360 isn't necessarily obsolete now.
All it takes is the release of a different add-on and it's still a viable option for an all-in-one console/media centre/HD-player.

@Alershka: Probably not possible, but not a bad idea. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray use the same light source but the optics have a different numerical aperture. On top of that, the controller and firmware in the optical drive do a lot of the heavy lifting in reading the format. It would be more than just a software change on the 360 to handle both formats.

However, if MS had started selling a dual format combo drive at the original price point as the HD-DVD model instead of merely lowering the price, they could have come out of this mess smelling a lot sweeter.

@aphex242: anybody who just looks for any opportunity to start throwing around the "sony/MS/Apple/ fanboy"-esque comments is just a fanboy.

i believe he was referring to the adding of an HDDVD drive to the 360 from the start, as "failures" and "mistakes", that the HDDVD guys are trying desperately to imply it might of been a "success" and "benefit". adding the HDDVD from the start to the 360 woulda probably killed it. even as it is Japan and Europe still love the PS3. having the xbox at the same price wouldnt have helped the 360 nor HDDVD. most likely woulda hurt them both.

There's no way that MS will ship a BR drive for the XBox - there's simply no point. The only reason that Sony included BR in the PS3 is because it gives developers more space for HD content and larger games, which also means a longer shelf life for the PS3. The fact that Sony had a stake in the success of the format meant it was probably a little cheaper in the short-term and more lucrative in the long term, so the decision was pretty easy.

Microsoft gets no advantage from the addition of a BR drive - there's not going to be any game ever released on BR for XBox, and by the time that MS gets the drive out there will be standalone BR players that will be the same price or cheaper. Microsoft's primary reason for releasing the HD add-on drive was to try to spoil Sony's BR efforts. They failed and they are going to retreat to just being a game and streaming vid console, which is a better plan anyway. They never should have picked that fight in the first place.

@theespacepope:

Should, Coulda, Woulda... Not in Microsoft's case. Microsoft clearly made the right call. Let the to formats battle it out and provide an XBOX 360 with the clear winner.

@DelSource:

Bull$shit... Listen to Robbie Bach.

This was clearly a strategic move on Microsoft's part.

so when someone moves to a new technology, following the market tendencies, they are rats abandoning the ship?

@AndersonBMX: they're not moving to a new technology. they are moving to one that was already there when they chose to back the competition. now that the competition is loosing. they are moving on to the one that is winning. it would be like that turd randy moss joining the giants next year....

All this talk about how things could have been different if MS had stuck the HD-DVD drive in the Xbox 360 I think are making an assumption that MS wanted HD-DVD to succeed. One of the most interesting arguments I've heard still is that MS's support of HD-DVD to this point was more about keeping the format war alive, rather than seeing HD-DVD specifically win - with the hope being that consumers would get fed up entirely with the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD debate and just buy HD content directly through the Xbox Marketplace.

In the end I think there might have been something to this - and I think it also can be seen in Apple not making Blu-ray options available on any of their Macs. Both MS and Apple see the future of HD content in downloadable content, not optical discs. Both companies have had an opportunity to more aggressively support their "chosen" platform, and neither did.

@Zadillo: you mean Michael Bay's conspiracy theory?

HD downloads are the future, whether there was a format war or not - I don't think MS would waste their money when the long-term outcome would be the same either way.

The problem with HD-DVD and the Xbox 360 is that Microsoft didn't want HD-DVD to win anymore than Blu-ray. It's all about the Digital Downloads.

Downloads will be the future, for those who live in areas where it makes sense for the Telcos & cable companies to run new fat pipes. Here in NJ, we are slowly seeing the rollout of fiber that makes it reasonable to dl High-def programming.
Very slowly
My cable company can't yet give good high-def programming, becuase the compression that they use makes my "High-def" unwatchable.
Physical media will be with us for a long time to come.

@Step666: How is that an advantage? The PS3 has BD built in - I'd say the advantage is with PS3.

I can also guarantee MS won't get much of a price break for components. With the war over, I'm not sure Sony is going to be in a big rush to help out the 360.

man, it's all sorts of good news for sony this month. if 360 games go blu-ray, that's just added royalties that goes to blu-ray coffers (sony being one of the primary bodies). funny stuff.

@Scuba Steve: sure.
nevermind the fact that the HUGE MAJORITY are still on either dial-up or basic 1.5(3max)mbps DSL because that's all that is available for the most part in the US and other countries. and nevermind the fact that Microsoft (along with Apple and just about everyone else) surely knows this fact. but aside from that, sure. the "downloads is what it's all about" theory makes sense....
or who knows? maybe all the research and studies was done in your area and it was concluded that because YOU get high-speed internet, then EVERYONE must also get it...
seriously guys. physical media is here to stay for AT LEAST the next decade. internet speeds arent even near to being fast enough to download the HD quality that a disc can give you and broadband as it is isnt even available to the majority, plus drives arent even CLOSE to being reliable enough for people to trust putting everything they hold dear or payed money for, on one without backing it up on a disc first...

microsoft needs to release a XBOX360 with bluray drive built in (not to release as a stupid addon) to avoid PS3 gaining momentum with the death on HD-DVD

i think HDDVD would've have another ending if microsoft released an SKU (like Elite) with it built in. in fact, if microsoft had hd-dvd to begin with, toshiba won't be in the deep shit they're in now. toshiba should've paid microsoft for the premium and to include the drive in the xbox 360 and swallowed the extra cost in order to gain market share

I call BS. The Xbox 360 will not have an internal HD disc drive. They may release a Blu-Ray add-on, like the current HD-DVD add-on, but I do not see internal Blu-Ray drives until Microsoft's next-generation successor to the 360.

I don't think MS is too concerned about it.. Seems like their real focus is on getting the Digital Download thing to take off. I think they're going to let Blu-ray have the task of beating Standard DVD.

Who cares? The Xbox doesn't benefit from having a hi-def drive (games can't use it without being incompatible with the millions of existing machines). By the time the bare drives are cheap enough for M$ to add one without excessively raising the price of the console, stand-alone players will be cheap and plentiful.

Many people here think that because Sony are vested in Blu-ray, M$ needs to be playing the HD movie arena. This is just not true. While M$ may own a codec or two, they don't own a content provider (ie, a movie studio).

For now, Microsoft has too much pride to concede with the enemy.

My understanding of the xbox360, was it is an external drive for playback only, it does not read the media for game play.. the idea was a low cost entry into the hi def video but not advancing game play, thus you still have xbox games that need 4 dvd disks to play through...

Once the PS3 based its format with blu-ray, there was no way that blu-ray was going to lose the format wars. It would be too detrimental for them to even fathom the PS3 failing. Microsoft participation in HDDVD would not have made a difference in the outcome of the format wars. HDDVD and blu-ray had near equivalent quality in their movies and even had more than what blu ray has to offer in movies at this time. The main selling point of blu ray were the extra space that has so much potential and the security. The studios were the deciding factor in the format wars.

A blu-ray add on for the 360 is not going to happen. Why spend $250-$350 for an add on next year when you can get a stand alone player for $50 more.

Look at the end of the day the only reason to have any kind of High Definition media player would be to upscale your existing dvd collection. Aside from that digital downloads people... sheesh if someone found a way to create a high def vhs tape would you jump on that tech too.... let's move on already

"just because u can does not mean you should"

BY BIGVIPER AT 02/06/08 12:40 PM
@seattleted
makes one pontificate on just why they opted against it...
the funny part is at the end of the day hard copies will loose out to digital copies anyway. I mean Hell I'm sitting on the same 100pack of blank dvd's I bought two years ago... and I'll probabally never use them up. Why would I buy a high definition dvd player blu ray or otherwise when I can just download hd movies (via xbox or pc). I found the whold battle somewhat humerous. Just what were they fighting for anyway? perhaps Microsoft already knows that hard copies are on the way out. Would'nt it be interesting if Microsoft was suddenly ready with a new digital high definition download scenario and Sony and all who sided with them was stuck with the TREMENDOUS financial burdon of having invested in a new technology already on its way out. I mean if Sony has done just ONE THING exceptionally well, it would be devoloping wonderfully usefull and exceptionally though out technology that never quite reaches the main streem..... I love spending time at my Sony store marveling in all their gadgets that are cool enough to make me drool but pointless enough for me to keep my wallet intact. In the battle for nothing there are no winners but someome must be the looser....

Downloads are the future.....the war was never between red and blue at all but IS between physical and digital media.....no-one wants physical media any more.....I never bought a HD DVD player anyway - honest!.....er.....downloads are the way ahead.....pretty soon you will be able to download 30GB in two minutes.....no-one uses dial-up any more.....HDD movies are in 1080p (aren't they?).....um.....no-one wants to have big boxes with discs in them.....er.....um.....HDD won't have any DRM.....Blu-ray is dead anyway.....er.....people don't like discs.....er.....um.....I never liked HD DVD anyway.....I always said Blu-ray would win.....er.....er.....um.....I mean, come on, iTunes and cheap legal and free illegal downloads killed the CD of years ago, didn't they?.....I will be downloading my 30GB 1080p non-DRM movies for 99 cents each from today.....er.....discs can be scratched too easily.....a HD DVD XBox 360 would still have been released early and would not have cost a penny more even though DVD-9 is more than good enough for the future of HD gaming.....um.....DVD will never replace VHS.....BD is proprietary and BDA is a dangerous cartel.....er.....no-one wnts physical media anymore.....

PS Anyone want to buy an HD DVD player? $50 - and I'll throw in "The Chronicles Of Riddick: The Director's Cut".

/sarcasm

...ellipses...stop...doing...this...shit...please...

I think MS will release a add on bluRay player. I know that games won't be released for BR, or will MS integrate the BR drive in the console, for the former I doubt too many people would buy an additional accessory to play a game, and for the latter, it will probably make the 360 more expensive, they would have to integrate them in all 3 versions.

I highly highly doubt a BD Xbox-360. So much so I can't file it under "never in a million years". Maybe a player, like their HD DVD player, but not built in. Just think about how many people that would piss off.

@cubensis:

Stop, doing, this, please.

@yoshi:
"Microsoft clearly made the right call. Let the to formats battle it out and provide an XBOX 360 with the clear winner."

Right call my ass. If they wanted to let the formats battle it out, they wouldn't have released a HD DVD add-on. Face it, Microsoft backed the wrong format and lost to Sony and the PS3. This is why the Xbox 360 sucks and is no competition for the PS3, who will reign king this year.

RIP Xbox 360.. its seen the last of it's days..specailly the last of thier "exclusive" titles. Bioshock and CoD4 is the best the 360 can do...srry kiddies..those games weren't even exclusives. PC games are now ahead 4 years or so in tech compared to the 360. The ps3 is just now starting to see its potential with real ps3 games starting to come out, the games that were in development when the ps3 1st came out little over a year ago. the 360 ports don't count as real ps3 games, by the way, since most of them arent made for the ps3 people assumed the ps3 wasnt as good. When in reality..the programmers didnt take the time to learn the ps3.

@bitfactory: you clearly haven't bothered reading what I said.

Think about it this way, if it had gone HD-DVD's way instead then the PS3 would be stuck with an obsolete drive inside it, with no way of switching. On top of which, you'd've paid through the nose for the privilege of having said drive in your console.
Yes, no-one's arguing that BluRay won and that having a console with a BluRay drive is better than having one with a HD-DVD drive but the point is that by separating the drive from the console, it means that those who bought a 360 always had the fall-back that if HD-DVD lost, MS could maybe have a BR drive produced for it.

Smarhouse, huh? Wow. Aren't they the guys who always post stupid shit as rumors just looking for hits?

Yeah, I thought so...

Regardless, why wouldn't Microsoft plan at least some sort of Blu functionality? The whole reason they didn't implement HD-DVD in their console in the first place was to avoid a sinking ship taking their console down. Sony better thank their lucky stars Blu won, and we as consumers better thank our lucky stars MSoft didn't include HD-DVD functionality in the 360 or this format war would just be getting started.

Seriously, I just bought a replacement 360, if this means I have to get a new one, it better damn well be for free.

Oh plueeeeze, adding BluRay add-on on 360? That'll jack the the price to $150-$200. And people complain that PS3 is "expensive"? Wait until your 360 is pimped with Blu-Ray drive...

Sony laughs maniacally at you all...

For all you guys saying, "HD DVD would be winning if Microsoft put it in the 360" Well your all wrong! HD DVD was not out when the 360 launched. The 360 would have been pushed back to release along side Sony's PS3. So the console war would be a totally different story. The 360 would not have a head start on the wii and PS3. Which means Gears of War would have come out the same time COD4 and Uncharted. Halo 3 would be released around Killzone 2 and Resistance 2. I think you 360 fans would rather take what your saying back. Wouldnt you rather the 360 be winning the war than HD DVD. Think about it. It's all about time.

@DelSource: At least mine is easier to read.

psn:lp47 shut up....xbox would of still been the better console just like it is now.

I think they should throw the HD DVD and X-Box 360 on the ash heap of history. This news is a nail in the coffin of the X-Box 360. The High Def DVD war and console war is over. SONY is the winner!!!