Seems to be more Vista-hate than usual around here lately.

I would guess that people who actually use Vista, on a day to day basis, get annoyed by all the articles about how miserable it is.

Then again, it is very unlike the internet to rationally discuss a product, particularly something from MS. It is much easier to just say it sucks, spout some bullshit about what an awful experience you or "your friend" had with it, and move on.

Never before has a price-drop been portrayed in such an awful tone.

i use vista x64 everyday and it's fucking miserable for copying files over the network. nuff said.

@jcy: The only complaint I really have with Vista is this.

I've been using it since day 1 (thank you, MSDNAA) and despite its enormous bloat and inexplicably terrible networking issues, it's really not so bad.

Id say that this price reduction is normal, since Vista has been out since Jan 2007. But still, Vista is quite the step backwards for Microsoft. Id also say most people would adopt Vista if it came with their new PC, rather than shell out the $$ for an unnecessary upgrade.

I do love Vista's support for memory beyond 2 gigs, though.

@regnez: I have Vista, which came with my new laptop. It SUCKS. A majority of users have reached the same conclusion. Nuff said.

@rdldr1:

Are you sure it is Vista that sucks, and not your new laptop?

Was that $400 Compaq (with a free printer!) at Circuit City just too good to pass up?

@rdldr1: I don't think you have the data to support a claim that a "majority" of users dislike Vista. The media has a way of, shall we say, perpetuating popular myths without dilligent fact checking. One media outlet makes an unsubstantiated claim and suddenly it becames the truth, ipso facto. Many users of Vista are quite pleased - I am one of those many users.

@regnez: gawd your position is so weak you have to resort to implying that he's poor and weak. take your lame game and just go away.

@berribrand: and you're basing this conclusion off what? a sampling of 1, i.e. yourself?

@jcy:

What is your position? That Vista sucks because the internet says so? Because you say so?

Or because you pull implications out of thin air (weak?) and rhyme your comments, making your points more valid?

I use Vista EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. I hate it. I don't have an XP license so I have to deal.

@jcy: actually you're the one implying that he's poor. i can be rich and still buy a $400 laptop 'coz it's a good deal. the point he was making was that ppl buy crappy computer with vista pre-installed and then go bitch that vista sux.

@regnez: no, the messed up networking core is a HUGE sign to everyone that they really lost sight of what the proper priorities are in building an OS. also, when all the retailers basically forced MS to back off on forcing Vista down everyone's throat and allow them to offer XP again w/ PC's, that was another sign that Vista was hated.

you're in denial, i get it. i won't waste anymore effort on showing you all of the copious evidence that Vista sucks and is unpopular because frankly, you're just trying to save face now.

@Sunatic: maybe you should look a few stories down and see what a complete fraud those "Vista Ready" stickers were. that added greatly to the Vista suckitude.

a $400 laptop will run XP fairly well. what gains were made in Vista over XP, that justifies paying double for the hardware specs? nothing. so add another reason to why Vista is a failure.

@jcy:

[www.trustedreviews.com] | [www.dailytech.com]

[reviews.cnet.com] | [www.bit-tech.net]

Respected tech sites around the web, as well as Vista sales, seem to agree with me.

@regnez: amen.

The only problem I had with Vista was copying and pasting files required 2 tries to succeed. But hey, I installed and removed the service pack beta once or twice so I won't begrudge it for that. Back to using XP for now... [dramatic music]

@regnez: OK, I lied. I had to respond to this particular bit of idiocy on your part. you didn't even read those articles, did you?

reviews.cnet.com: [b]User's Rating 4.9/10[/b] (only the editor's gave it a C+ rating of 7.8/10)

forbes: [www.forbes.com]

MIT Technology Review: [www.technologyreview.com]

those were the only two reviews i remember offhand, google provided a bunch of other links but i'm not going to bother reading what i already know.

Hopefully, this extends to OEM versions. That way, machines bundled with Vista will be cheaper.

CNET users ratings LOL!

I mean seriously, how many of them actually use Vista and just do the usual "omg it suckz0rz!1!" chant of the great uninformed.

Vista is OK. Not great, not life changing, but OK. To say it sucks is just plain stupd.

I had to get some files of my old xp machine today, it crashed within 5 minutes. I've been running Vista for 6 months now and it's yet to freeze or crash... so how exactly is it that xp is better Haroon?

@jcy:

I read all the articles I posted a day or two after they were published, which was sometime ago.

And the cnet review actually does the best job of proving the point I am trying to get across: Vista is "very good", as the reviewer/review of cnet (and all the other sites I linked) declares, but the user review for Vista is low.

This means that intelligent, rational people are hard to come by online, but they do exist. Idiots and trolls, on the other hand, wait around every corner and lap up the chance to spew garbage about Microsoft products.

If you are not having trouble with a product, you simply continue to use and enjoy it. If you do encounter problems, however, what is the first thing many people do? Take it straight to the web.

It is easy to find people who hate Vista; I am just speaking on behalf of those of us who enjoy it and the benefits/pleasantries it provides.

...apologies if this is a double post. Giz just crapped out on me for a second.

i still use xp, mainly avoiding vista because of the extra bloat, which causes more system lag, especially when you're using a computer like mine that has any old parts shoved into it. some of my RAM is PC2100 (half a GB) and some of it is PC3200 (1 GB), none of it is really low latency, my processor is single core with a low clockspeed and a small L2 cache, and i'd probably suffer to death with any bulkier of an OS than i already have.

although i will admit that the aero UI is a great improvement over any pervious UI in any previous version of windows (albiet even more resource-hogging).

I built a new rig with an Opteron 165 at 2.7ghz, 2gb of ram, and a GeForce 8800gt. I opted to try Vista Ultimate x64 because I wanted the best and DX10. Everything was great at first.
Then all of my folders changed to picture folders. Then I started getting BSODs. Then my computer just refused to behave, ever. I had a ton of malware despite those ridiculous confirmation messages that popped up when anything was installed.
Not to mention, I wasn't a true administrator. I had to activate the real admin account from the command line and even then I was still limited in what I could do.

I reformatted and installed XP. Crysis runs on high without issue, I don't have to deal with those awful confirmation messages, and life is good again. Say what you will, but as far as I'm concerned Vista is ME v2. I won't touch it for a very, very long time.

@spock11384:

Man, i think you are cursed, really. I use Vista for almost 1 year and never had any of those problems you had.

But this doesn't mean that i didnt have any problem at all... But concerning security issues i have none, actually i even dont have a antivirus.

I'm an Apple fanboi. I have yet to actually use Vista (surprised?) I honestly couldn't tell you wether or not it sucks. That said "VISTA SUCKS MY BALLS!"

Vista is much better than XP. You should try it.

just to put my opinion in this debate above,
having had to get used to using vista(preinstalled) on my friends and relatives computers, I have to say vista is a mess.
It's not any more secure IMO than XP and the constant warning messagesare a pain.
It doesn't offer any actual added fuctionality compared to XP apart from flash, which slows down the system furthur.
Even wifi enabling using the default drivers is a pain compared to XP.
IMO, XP may be more rough looking, but it's more mature and has everything that people actually require from Vista. Plus I can get things done in XP much faster. Vista slows me down as a user

@spock11384:

As much as building your own computer started off your post with geek cred, the rest of your post kind knocks you down a few rungs.

All folders changing to picture folders = you fudging a setting. Not Vista's fault.

BSODs normally happen after the operating system is unable to read/write to the RAM, which is highly likely since again, you built the machine yourself. In the world of DIY computers, you just got to accept the fact that sometimes you pull bad RAM out of the batch and won't notice it until a rash of BSODs. At which point you should have been doing Memcheck98 scans and hard drive scans to see if it was either of those parts or the PSU. Blaming Vista is frankly a very naive thing to do.

And finally, malware? really? Are you going to blame Microsoft for going to naughty websites?

Vista is what MADE me build my first Hackintosh. Goodbye Microsoft.

I love Vista, it does exactly what I want. Fortunatly, I was able to get the teacher discount for Upgrade copies, so cost wasn't an issue....but I woujld have NEVER paid full price at launch for it. Glad to see it coming down in price.

I've had very few issues with Vista, none of which earth shattering. Never had the OS crash, lock-up or BSOD, which is more than I can say for Leopard on my g4.

So Vista Ultimate is $319?

A fully loaded OS X is still only $129 or you can buy 5 license for $199. Oh and there is no Activation.

It's okay to like Windows XP.
It's okay to like whatever works for you.

I'll try Vista in my next machine. By then they'll have worked out the bugs I'm sure.

For now XP rocks for me and my aging Dells.
In fact I eagerly await the final release of SP3 and appreciate the continued support of XP by Microsoft because of that.

It might work to their advantage with folks like me because now on my next machine I'm pulling out the stops as far as they'll go so I can get the most out of Ultimate or whatever the balls to the wall version is at that time.

My arms are hurting from all the metaphor mixing, but, it's my way.

Fire sale?

@shiftyeyedgoat: "not so bad"

But is it worth spending $219 on a software upgrade that's "not so bad"? I can think of a lot more better uses for $219 then paying Microsoft for a mediocre software upgrade.

@bitphil: I'm sorry. I didn't explain myself fully.

I did not fudge a setting. There was no rhyme or reason to which folders behaved like picture folders and which ones didn't. I had a helluva time trying to get to settings within the folders to change things. In that regard, yes, my geek cred goes down a rung. But damn it, changing folder options should be way more intuitive.

I understand that ram is one of the primary causes of BSODs. That is why I ran memtest on my machine to verify that my ram was not broken before installing any OS. It wasn't. Maybe it was Vista, maybe it wasn't, but I haven't had one BSOD since going back to XP.

Point taken on the malware piece.

I appreciate you helping me flesh out my criticisms of Vista. Take care.

BTW, all coarse language used in frustration aimed at Vista, not you.

I keep thinking I might upgrade my Parallels XP install on my MacBook Pro, but after following discussions liek this for almost a year. I think I'll pass. I want to like Vista....I really do.

@SgtBeavis

The cost of OSX is somewhat offset by the fact you have to pay double for the same hardware specification though.

@Sleeper_Service: Thats a old tune your playing. Build a comparable computer, its not that far off (and no, not the Air).

As for Vista, it runs fairly well. I use it as a secondary OS to OSX Leopard for testing production projects. It freezes up sometimes but its not as bad as I expected. XP is still the better of the two as far as I can tell.

I've had Vista for the better part of a year now, problem free. I'd say take advantage of the price cut...join the darkside!

Uh, sorry, nerds, I just built a Core 2 Quad with Vista and it rocks. Love the new UI, love how out-of-my-way compared to XP it is, love all the little fit and finish enhancements and LOVE running 64-bit Vista.

I also love how Internet nerds spend the entire day in an online echo chamber with people who think and act exactly like them and then emerge, blinking into the sun, and announce what a majority of people in the world believe.

Sadly, geek groupthink is actually getting more belligerant and deluded as time goes on.

Vista made me a MAC user. No WOW here ladies and gentlemen, move along now... =)

Vista is just bad business. I am not buying any branded laptop right now because of Vista. The latest laptop market is made silly with Vista. For most branded Laptop if you have Vista Business you can downgrade to XP Pro. Why not for Vista Basic and Vista Home Premium to XP Home? Once again it proofs my point that MS really do not care about individuals (the small guys) or the consumer market. For corporates (the big guys) they need to buy new laptop yearly have been complaining for a while now that they want XP pro rather than Vista. So that is the reason why Vista Business and Ultimate can downgrade to XP.

Vista made me a Linux user now.

@iamTheKing

MacBook (2.4GHz CPU, 2GB RAM, 250GB HDD) = $1,399
Dell Inspiron 1420 (same specs) = $1,049

MacBook Pro 15" (2.6GHz CPU, 4GB RAM, 200GB 7200 HDD, 512MB 8600MGT) = $3,199
Dell XPS MP1530 (same specs except 256MB on Graphics) = $2,073.

You're right, it's only a one third to one half mark up. Not including the cost of a copy of Windows though.

I'm in a corporate environment that deals with a variety of other corporations. The general consensus is to not upgrade for a while yet till Vista works out it's issues. I can't claim to have used Vista extensively but the 2 days that I had to were possibly the most painful experience I've had with a new OS to date. It felt like I was more or less boxing with Windows instead of just using it to do work.

why do people spell Mac as MAC? I don't get it. They don't say VISTA. or UBUNTU. Mac, Vista, Linux. Easy on the caps lock guys.

@regnez: Miserable is to HAVE to use Vista because of my job. Damn, this OS sucks so hard. Does the same that XP but is much slower.

I agree people should test for themselves to see what they think. I tested it on many machines and it sucked on all of them - even using all the tweaks on the web, updating all the drivers, using SP1, updating all the post SP patches. Some people say you just need to use it on better equipment. If a Core2 3GHz processor and 2 gigs of ram isn't enough - what does it require to run well on a network? My point of comparison is the same machine running XP (linux is probably faster for some things but I didn't compare since linux doesn't run all the apps we use).

For people that don't have the time to test for themselves I'd recommend just googling Vista XP benchmarks (you can even put in SP1) if you like although SP1 didn't improve speeds as much as MS said it would.

Putting Vista on a super speedy new computer with plenty of memory, a fast hard drive, a fast network card, a fast video card and a very fast processor is like throwing an anchor overboard on your speed boat or deploying a parachute on your race car.

Would I like to see Vista as a viable alternative - that would be great but in my opinion anything that slows down the clients that much isn't a good thing.

For those that think it is super secure, I think (just my opinion) security is probably related to market percentage - I think if Vista had 50% or even 25% of the market hackers would spend more of their evil time working on hacks for Vista - but it is like a grafiti tagger writing on a park bench - do they tag the underside of the seat that no one sees or the back - the most visible part? I think OSX would be "less secure" if it owned more market share - I'm not saying OSX is not secure, I'm saying the number of hacks would go up if it had more market share.

I'd also highly recommend people read the comments about Vista by MS employees that were released because of the new Vista class action suit - one of my favorites questions whether they should do the right thing as fixing the bad vista code would be too expensive. :)

@regnez: "I would guess that people who actually use Vista, on a day to day basis, get annoyed by all the articles about how miserable it is."

* Raises hand

I've used it for a year straight on both my laptop and desktop and it's been great. XP is really starting to bug me now, since I've found faster ways to do things in Vista. What, you need to run Photoshop? That's easy, just click Start > All Programs > Adobe > Photoshop. Or, if you're running Vista, just tap the Start key followed by "ph" and hit enter.

And c'mon, "Vista made me a Linux user"? Really? The changes to the Start menu were so horrible that you decided to chuck out all your software and 95% of your games, format your hard drive, and spend the next three days typing in obscure console commands trying to get your onboard sound working, because in the end this is somehow easier than putting up with the (relatively minor) hiccups in Vista? Or were you actually trying to say "I've been a Linux user, but I tried out Vista and didn't like it, so now I'm like double a Linux user."

Egads, people! Get some perspective!

* Mutters something about "someone being wrong on the internet" and gets back to work

@regnez: You know, it's funny, but I have yet to read a single positive review of Vista, whether it's online or on a dead tree. Even Maximum PC, who have wholeheartedly endorsed every Microsoft OS except for Windows ME, can't find too much positive to say about Vista, despite the fact that it's the home of DirectX 10, and they're still recommending XP rigs. You'd think that that might make a dent on the Vista fanboys, make them see that it's not some great and horrible conspiracy against their new favorite OS, but no. That'd require a critical eye and rational thought, and anybody who has that is apparently "a loser who cries on the internet" or what have you.

@Ashground: You've never actually used Linux, have you? On my home machine, on a daily basis, I use OpenOffice, Firefox, Pidgin, MediaMonkey, and 7-Zip. Believe it or not, all but one of those have Linux versions, and I hear Amarok makes a pretty fine replacement for MediaMonkey. And, honestly, though my Linux experience is rather limited, it seems to me that you really don't have to even use the console if you don't want to, if you're using a decent distribution (read: Ubuntu). The only thing keeping me from switching over is the fact that XP is still usable and tolerable; once it gets End-Of-Lifed, I'll probably go over completely. Of course, I do find it ironic that somebody griping about "uninformed" opinions about Vista would toss off a ridiculously uninformed one about Linux, but hey... Internet.

@Sleeper_Service: Now count the plastic shittyness of Dell along with their really bad reliability issues and you have a better machine. I'll pay the extra money. That and your first reference of the Macbook compared to a Dell at a loss of about $300, Ill stick with the macbook simply for OSX.

I've got Vista Ultimate 64-bit. So here's what my experience is vs. XP:
-takes way longer to turn on, shut off, and come out of 'sleep' than XP
-the "Ultimate Extras"...where the hell are they already?!? that feature is clearly NOT worth the extra money you pay
-my IE7 stops responding and needs to be restarted more than it did in XP (a couple/three times a month vs none)

Also, ever since I installed the RC SP1, my VLC player won't play sound the first time I open a movie. I have to close the player, then open the movie again for the sound to work, random and stupid!

But my main beef I have is that it's BASICALLY XP but certain areas it actually performs worse, and in other ways, they've made things you're used to doing in XP needlessly different...and for hundreds of dollars. Unless you get it on a new computer, there's absolutely no reason to buy it!