It failed to kill John McClain, so it's a loser.

Seems kind of a waste to keep developing new fighters since no other countries can come close to matching the aerospace technology we already have. I mean, it's one thing to stay ahead of the curve, but thats $40 billion for a new plane that I believe was originally intended for use dogfighting with the Russians Top Gun style when there are basically no other airforces to dogfight with.

Then again, that $40 billion kept all of Lockheed Martins employees in jobs, which in turn kept the economy of their region going.

But really? Did we need it?

I vote for the Veritechs.

America can still build really great planes - but the process, a mix of politics and contractor pandering for "absolute fairness" means that it takes way too long and costs way too much to develop new planes.

Skunkworks is awesome

Where's the Top Gun theme music?

I can imagine the F-22 pilots:

"Hi, yes - uh, I'd like to change my order. I ordered my F-22 yesterday, but today on your website I see that you already have a better version... can I upgrade my order, or is it too late?"

Reminds me of my dad when he orders his new laptop every two years, lol.

@jetexas: Probably not. But the Russians do seem to keep churning out incredible fighters. They may not be as technologically sophisticated, or flashy, but they do perform well, especially in the hands of skilled pilots.

They'll probably all be replaced with UAV fighters long before 2040 anyway...

I don't mean to be an ass or anything,

But this and the F22 really don't compare, they aren't made for the same purpose.

At least I don't think so...

Most of the development money actually goes right back in the US economy. We do need to develop new things and stay ahead of the curve.

@jetexas: Need? No. Want? HELL YES!

Really I think the Military is run by a bunch of gadget nerds. If this had more chrome, a touch screen, and an apple logo the line ups for this bad boy would go around the block.

Apples new product. The iAnnihilate.

@Petrogk: you're right, and russia and china are both developing aircraft that are more advanced than any US planes currently in the sky (except for the handful of f22s). of course both the f35 and f22 are necessary.

China has been increasing defense spending over the past few years, and with Russia's test of the FOAB recently, the DOD is rattling their sabers even more loudly. As long as there are humans, there will always be a need for stronger military might.

While we may not need a fighter this advanced, much of the technology used in it's design will, over the years, filter down into every aspect of our lives in one way, shape, form, or another. It is striving to make things better like this that leads to life changing inventions.

Besides, when we go to war we don't want to just "beat" the other guy, we want to humiliate them into abject submission for the next thousand years and what better way to do that than take out his entire air force with three jets?

"And the handling, particularly with the gear up, was phenomenal."

I get that compliment all the time...

I read that quote as "And the landing, particularly with the gear up..." and was just confused after that.

The F-35 Lightning II, allegedly the most advanced fighter in the world This is wrong_ The F-22 is the world's most advanced fighter_ Less technology went into the development of the F-35_ It takes resource technology from the F-22s but was built as a multi-purpose fighter_

The F-22 Raptor is more of a Strike Fighter that replaced the F-15 Eagle and the F-14 Tomcat_

The F-35 [just because it has a bigger number doesn't mean it's the better of the 2] replaces both the Hawker Harrier Jump Jet [AV-8A/B] and the F-16 Falcon_ All the number signifies is that it's the next in the line of succession of fighter aircraft_

I'm happy that the $40 billion total development costs have resulted in a plane that handles phenomenally well with the gear up

Seconded. And the news that it flies well with other planes is very encouraging.

@dicknervous: Not to mention deaths are no longer an acceptable part of war. In previous combat situations we lost 4k a month but now people are counting 4000 in 5 years a milestone.

We expect wars to be lopsided and sterile. Americans cant get hurt anymore. So the movement is to make the shit so advanced that the other guy doesnt even have a chance (hence the move to UAVs whenever possible).

So that is the idea, this plane will likely only get used in small combat situations like Africa or the Middle East but its impressive abilities will mean we will likely not lose a pilot. Just look at how the first gulf war went.

Considering that the F-15 (which is what the F-22 replaces) was fielded in the 1970s using 1960s technology and the F-16/F-18 are 1970s technology, an upgrade is not unreasonable. The current jets are getting too damned old to fly - not only out of date but just worn out - they have to be replaced one way or the other. Would you replace your car with a brand new car from 1976?

@jetexas: It's called the SU 47, it's Russian and it's amazing. [en.wikipedia.org] This is why we need a F-35

On a side note some models of the F-35 can to VTOL and they accomplish this by opening large doors and turning the jet engine towards the ground, which is why I thought it should have been named Starscream not Ligthening 2, it's the first transformer plane.

$40 Billion? Wow...

I would be very sad if the plane didn't fly well.

YAY for Robotech refernces.

@Canoehead: I would trade for a new car from 1976 in a second. I currently drive a '91 Ford Probe that I got when I got out of high school in '01.......

I just don't know how anyone justifies the price of these things. There is so much that could be done with that money. We can't even control forest fires or flooding but we can patrol the skies. I know there is always the off chance we will use these guys, but come on.

*on a side note, I just watched The Starfighters on MST3K.....NERD ALERT!

@uberfu: the wikipedia doesn't seem to agree with you.

"The F-35 is being designed to be the world's premier strike aircraft through 2040. It is intended that its air-to-air capability will be second only to that of the F-22 Raptor."

So only in air-to-air combat the F-22 is better.

This also means better air shows through the year 2040. Awesome.

@Jesus Diaz: isn't that the only kind of combat that matters when comparing aircraft (as superior or not)? the f22 is designed to be a total air superiority aircraft - i.e. to allow no enemy aircraft to operate during war. the f35 is not.

Mentioning China_ Right now they're stuck between being a World Power and a 3rd World Country_ Due to their sheer numbers in population - if they ever organize and somehow manage to jump into the 21st Century we'd better damned well hope that they don't pick a fight with us {USA or Western Society]_ But there seems to be enough internal stuggle in China that the younger generations coming up may end up changing the course of China as they become a World Power_ [refering to their Communist Government] We'll have to wait and see_

@Jesse Mrozowski: The Su-47 was a technology prototype. There is _one_ of it in the entire world, and they are not building more.

Say what you will about the US military procurement process, but it has produced some phenomenal successes over the years. The US military is willing to pay to get the best, and so they do.

@uberfu: See where you put all those underscores? They should be periods.

Giz the footage is from 2006 been on Lockheed's Site for a long time, but F-35 isnt the most advanced, but def. is the coolest...hell it can gas efficiently hover unlike the Harrier...In time the stunts that were performed in Die Hard will become possible with practice...the plane performs go to Lockheed and search x-35 or f-35.

@dicknervous: Cheers to you! I couldn't have said it better.

@pferde_schwanz: That is correct. The F-22 is a pure air superiority fighter. The F-35 is a fighter-bomber or multi-purpose strike fighter: it's primary mission is to bomb things and only secondarily is it designed to fight other aircraft. So in a head-to-head matchup the F-22 is the better fighter.

@Petrogk:
No they are for completely different missions. As stated above the Raptor is a strike fighter variant designed to take over the ground attack and air combat role that planes like the F-15 eagle previously had.

The technology in the F-22 Raptor has pushed the outright cost to put in service significantly higher than any other strike fighter. This is why the JSF exits. It was designed as a platform that could use slightly modified variants for ALL branches of the US armed forces. Similar to the F-16, the F-35 has is a stable air-to-air & air-to-ground combat platform, with a more viable production cost and a base platform and uses small changes to suit the needs of each branch of the US military:

-The US AF will be using the
F-35A (CTOL) Same configuration the US marines will use without the vertical lift engine and slightly lighter for air combat operations.

-The UK Royal AF and the US Marines will be using the
F-35B (STOVL) for vertical and short landing, replacing their aging fleet of AV-8B Harriers.

-The US Navy and UK Royal Navy will be using the
F-35C (CV) carrier version with a wing span extended by 8 feet, more wing area and a strengthened undercarriage for carrier duty.

Also, when will we have "Flight of the Navigator" tech? I wanna cruise to a desolate gas station playing Beach Boys songs as my semi-liquid metal ship talks to me like pee-wee herman.

@Out2gtcha:
I said "duty ".

@Jetexas:

That same mentality is why we sucked big time in the skies of Vietnam. We ran a SAC force and totally forgot about TAC - in other words, we built bombers and very fast, strike aircraft because we figured missile technology and radar would handle any fighters out there. We were very wrong and nearly got our asses handed to us by the North Vietnam pilots and their Russian trainers. We learned our lesson.

Although they do cost a lot of money, I would rather we spend it on these weapons. Besides, the money feeds the local economy where they are being built and also the national economy when you think about it. War is good business. War deterrence is even better business. I would agree with your point if we were spending that money on purchasing Euro Fighters or Su-37s where those fighters affect the US economy in no way what so ever. But this F35 and F22 are designed here, developed here, built here, tested here, and ultimately flown by us, and in the case of the F35 at least, as far as I can tell, will also be sold to select nations around the world. Kind of like where the Air Force has announced it will be entering into agreement with Air Bus Industries Military Division to purchase the Military equivalent of the A330, to be used for Air Tankers. Why US Officials did this is beyond me. Why not spend the money on Boeing instead.

Now, until the day comes when we can all hold hands around the world, light up a big ol' doobie and sing Cumbaya, the more of these WMDs we keep developing and building, the safer I feel.

Lockheed Skunk Works FTW
Kelley Johnson + Ben Rich were gods of the modern aviation world.

Good God...that's a beautiful airplane.
I'd like to see the jump jet do a demo.

Gimme a T-16 and some wayward wamp rats.

@uberfu: the wikipedia doesn't seem to agree with you.

So only in air-to-air combat the F-22 is better.

But that's not what the Article states!

@Jesus Diaz: Yep and of course Wikipedia - as we all know - is the end all authority on everything accurate - right?

Go research it elsewhere - I promise you that the F-22 is more advanced_

But since you like quoting Wikipedia so much:
[en.wikipedia.org]
Proposed foreign sales -
Unlike many other tactical fighters, the opportunity for export is currently non-existent because the export sale of the F-22 is barred by federal law. There was a time in the 1970s when the then-new F-16 also had many restrictions. However, regardless of restrictions, very few allies would even be considered for export sale because the F-22 is such a sensitive and expensive system. Most current customers for U.S. fighters are either acquiring earlier designs like the F-15, or F-16 or are waiting to acquire the F-35, which contains much of the F-22's technology but is designed to be cheaper and more flexible.

The key information of this is in the last sentence:
or F-16 or are waiting to acquire the F-35, which contains much of the F-22's technology but is designed to be cheaper and more flexible.

Everyone seems to be comparing Apples to Bowling Balls here_ The 2 Fighters - as I said before - serve 2 different purposes_ But the the F-22 is more advanced currently as far as capabilities and always will be_ The F-35 right now as slightly more advanced technology only because it's 5 years newer and the development upgrades it has will migrate to the F-22_

Minor things like Thrust-Vectoring - SuperCruise and a more advanced Stealth Technology the F-35 does not have_

If these 2 Jets were in a dog-fight with each other [even if it were friendly and for testing the capabilities] I gaurantee the F-22 would win the encounter_

Here's a decent third party break down of the differences between the 2 jets:
[www.globalsecurity.org]

But it just repeats information already released by both Lockheed and Boeing about both aircraft_

@pferde_schwanz:absolutely - and that would then make the F-35 a support aircraft_ And once again deflate the statement in the article about the F-35 being the world's most advanced fighter_ And that's what this whole conversation is about_ The F-35 is not the world's most advanced fighter_

@jw: In the garbage, where it belongs.

@pferde_schwanz: "you're right, and russia and china are both developing aircraft that are more advanced than any US planes currently in the sky (except for the handful of f22s). of course both the f35 and f22 are necessary."

You my friend are horribly incorrect and it shows you don't know much about planes. The top of the line stuff that Russia has is the SU-47 which ONE has been made with no plans of making more. And then you have China whos current plane is the J-11 which is currently their cream of the crop. And then you have the F-15 which outperforms BOTH of those planes much less the F-22, F-35 and some other goodies that you can find on our plane developers sites...go do some research

"Besides, when we go to war we don't want to just "beat" the other guy, we want to humiliate them into abject submission for the next thousand years"

Well that explains it! Did you forget to send this memo to the Iraqi and Afghan insurgents? 'Cause I don't think them and us are on the same page.