Bastards. Email Phil and tell him to back the fark up and stop stomping on his own user base before he loses it.

poshaughnessy@creativelabs.com

Be sure to let Phil know exactly how you feel...

poshaughnessy@creativelabs.com

Gotta wonder how this would fly in court. He helped people, non-commercially when the company wouldn't. I understand they want to make money selling new products but I'd love to see them argue how this isn't fair-use because they want to deprive their customers the choice of using their products so they can sell them new ones.

So... not a letter from the Legal department at Creative but from the head of Corporate Communications?

Let's be real here folks, Creative should look at this as an huge opportunity. How about this:

Dear Daniel,

Thank you for showing such enthusiastic interest in the interoperability and functionality we at Creative hope to bring to market with our products. Our team has some concerns regarding the distribution methods and supportability of your updates, but we're more interested in making sure the updates can be sufficiently tested, distributed through more official channels, and supported for the long term. In this regard, I'm asking our head of developmenet and human resources to contact you regarding an employment or consulting arrangement with Creative. If this interests you, we look forward to working with you to further develop the updates you've recently released.

Regards,
~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Suggesting that Daniel K. is stealing rings a little hollow once it is apparent that Creative has deliberately obsoleted their earlier equipment. Perhaps the users of that equip should accuse Creative of theft, since they are deliberately not upgrading drivers.

I think they were pretty polite about it, and they happen to be right, even if that sucks.

In fact, here are the whole PR team's email addresses. Let them know that this is stupid, and that they need to back off.

[us.creative.com] << PR Contacts page

Daniel_K is not costing you anything. He's simply allowing your user base to continue using your products until they get enough scratch together to buy a better sound card. By doing this, you're turning off your user base and they'll be more likely to try to look elsewhere for a sound card or they'll just use a newer mobo with integrated sound instead.

I'm sure you can work out SOME kind of arrangement where your "IP" is protected, AND your users can still use your products. How about this: Settle your differences with Daniel_K, pay him some kind of reward for his work on the drivers, he signs an NDA, an agreement that he will no longer distribute the drivers, and signs the rights to them over to you, then after cleaning them up and QAing them YOU distribute the drivers. Hell, seeing as he put all that effort into the driver package, maybe he'd work out well as an employee. Had you ever thought about that? That makes a lot more business sense to me.

I mean, how much sense does this sentence make: "Stop doing free work for our company! We don't want you making our products work!" Sounds pretty stupid to me.

@FSugino: Hive mind. I won though. :)

I don't care if they're right or not, they should let him keep doing what he's doing. Even if he is making money he'll never make anywhere close to as much as they do so I don't see the problem.

The focus point seems to be that he asked for donations. Then again, he only asked for donations. Creative should just give him a "donation" and later distribute his driver fixes.

Funny how the consumer is always the loser.

That's pretty screwy.
I've been losing faith in their stuff over the last couple of years.

Who's a good alternative on the sound card realm?

douchebags

pure and simple

Creative
Wrong:
Stopping someone who is making your customers happy and ultimately causing ill-will with your customer base while also destroying the usefulness of your products.

Right:
Legally, he is absolutely in the wrong re-distributing your content and asking for a donation. (But do you really have to be dicks about it?)

Daniel_K
Wrong:
Probably would have worked out a bit better if you asked for permission to re-distribute their code and provide backward compatibility for their hardware.

Right:
You are the hero of every Vista using Creative device owner. All four of us love you.

Far be it from me to protect the corporate machine, but I think they are 100% on par here.

First, a lot of manufacturers SKU their products solely based on the software and software-enabled features that they provide in the box. Someone coming along and ignoring this SKUing and allowing advanced features/software to work on SKUs that they should not function on costs the company money. If you, as a consumer, know you can buy they cheap sound card and download drivers for $30 and download software that gives it the same features as an $80 card, then you will buy the cheap one. Creative just lost $50. They spend a lot of money on software development and deserve to recoup that money. The developer here is truly enabling users to steal software, in much the same way that Chinese vendors do.

Second is the request for donations. Many developers hide behind donation requests as a "soft" way to make money. Any money this dev received is payment for theft of software and that is wrong. If he was the hero you all are calling him, he would have asked for nothing, just like the majority of open source developers.

Seems to me that Creative was very nice in this case. The letter infers that they already told him he could keep developing software as long as he maintained the SKU limitations they imposed in their software design. That is their right and I don't see why you all think they are off-base. Also, they did not sic their lawyers on the guy. You gotta respect that. Instead, they sent a very polite message to him saying to stop.

This is the developers own fault. Stop treating him like Robin Hood. He could have done the right thing and didn't.

When something doesnt work on my computer... i avoid that manufacturer from then on when possible. Creative, do you wanna be black-listed by marky-mark? I didnt think so.

This is something NOBODY seems to understand. Every other tech company (INCLUDING APPLE!) does the same thing. They withhold features in their current products so that they can release them one by one in future products - thereby forcing users to upgrade. (i.e. The reason you don't have a 3G iPhone.) This is the single most important business strategy in any tech company!

So don't pick on creative until you open your eyes and see that everyone else is doing the same.

Part of my email:
And the reason is so easy to see - your hardware hasn't advanced enough to warrant new purchases -
so you cripple the old products to ensure users NEED your new product. That's bullshit, and it is enough to make me never buy creative again.

BOMB....Phil email: poshaughnessy@creativelabs.com

thanks for the torrent... i'll stand by ya!

I can't stand creative ever since they killed Aureal through a legal battle. Aureal won the lawsuit by countersuing for patent infringement, but they still went bankrupt because of the costs of the suit creative brought. Then Creative bought the company, and pretty much buried Aureal's superior technology, at least slowing it down.

The company for the longest time also ignored important things like sound quality at the expense of features (They had the most useless breakout boxes). I remember when early musicians would quickly learn how much sound would be lost when using a $300 creative setup. Their cards were only good for games because studios developed specifically for their code, but their technology has never been very good.

By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods.

I'm no legal expert but I don't think this would hold up in court. As long as Daniel_K isn't using any code from Creative he isn't stealing anything, it's people who use his drivers with Creative products that are "stealing."

So really, it's probably users that Creative should be going after. But they know that would be a costly and futile effort, which explains why they're going after Daniel_K.

I've always had good customer service from Creative.
The best example I can give is when I broke the power and volume control thing in some 5 year plus speakers I had. I called them to hopefully buy a replacement.

All they asked from me was the model of my speakers and my name and address. I had a new power thing in less than a week.

"By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods."

LOL, no he isnt. Fact of the matter is, this isnt the defintion of stealing, its the defintion of adapting, which, to my very limited understanding, is not illegal. I'm with you on this gizmodo, this is just about selling new products.

@FilthyHarry:

they claim that hes stealing, when he isnt. they dont have an actual case imho (or they shouldnt) so my bet is that they would use underhanded techniques to "win" the case (ie make him go broke with all the lawyer fees)

@shangreer: Manufacturers do cripple their products for no other reason than to make more money. However, this doesn't give them the right to later complain when someone, who bought that hardware, finds some way to make it do other things.

By your own logic, Intel would be within their rights to force people to stop over clocking, as doing so ignores the SKUing, as you put it, and enables features (running faster) that weren't supposed to be there.

Or, keeping it software, Microsoft would have the right to shutdown, say, NullRiver for their Connect360 program. Connect360 allows people to stream media from a Mac to a XBox, a feature that is SKUed only for Windows.

Well, normally I'm honestly a huge Creative fanboy. Seriously, even though that's not so normal, I suppose. Love their PC speaker systems (most of them are really good value for money and great sound..for the price - you can't realistically compare them to high-end stuff), love their headphones and earphones (again, we're not talking high-range here, but for their price they usually rock - and above all, I absolutely adore my Zen Vision:M.
But I do hate it when a company tries to cripple its own products in an attempt to make people buy more. I mean, it's weird on so many counts; this goes beyond any form of customer service issues into basic human friggin' ethics.
Though it has to be said, they were a tad nice in their mail -didn't come down like the hammer, and gave a semi(only semi) decent explanation.
Not that i agree though.

awesome! Maybe this will fix the fact that none of my rear speakers work when I use this soundcard with Vista. This taught me to never purchase a Creative soundcard ever again.

Does anyone know where you can download this unofficial driver?

@ vagrant: That's actually an awesome idea.

They should also offer him a position in the company as well for being so talented and motivated.

I have a love/hate relationship with Creative.

I had to sell off one of my favorite MP3 players a year ago just because they *wouldn't* code Vista compatible drivers for it. (HINT: They wanted people to upgrade to their new line of players).

The solution they did offer required someone to install the software on a secondary XP system, which let's face it, if you're on your own and don't have a lot of spare money, you are not going to own.

I think there should be a law stating that if a manufacturer decides to abandon support for a particular platform or fixes for features that were originally supposed to work that *anyone* should be allowed to develop software (free or otherwise) to fix the problem.

If I were to be harsher I would make it compulsory for Creative to be legally obliged to fix their own damn players, but I'll take what I can get.

Companies like this really need to get better PR people..events such as the above do nothing to improve the public perception of Creative.

Why is this not similar to being kind of like an old-school TV repairman? Guy was fixing broken equipment. Just because somebody else made it, consumers purchased it, and they have a right to hire (or donate to) someone who can repair it rather than replace it.

I tend to be of the opinion that once Creative sold the product to the consumer--they sold it.

But could this be another case of corporate planned product obsolescence? I might posit "they don't make 'em like they used to," sadly, they've always made 'em like that.

@shangreer:

if i own a sound card, do i not own the rights to make that sound card work? Also, by not developing the extra features themselves, they are not losing money.

the fact is that It would cost creative money to make software to get the cards to run on vista. There probably isnt any way to make the money back. however, if they dont make new software, then people would be forced into buying new cards, and might wind up just buying another creative cards providing they were happy enough with their original card. So rather than losing money, they are making an attempt to make even more money than they normally would. Danile_k knew how to make drivers though and got the card to work. He also threw in a few extra things so that people could get even more bang for their long ago spent buck. As for the money he is making...its donations. Not "donations" but rather, donations. You dont have to give him money to download it. You can if you want however. I dont consider this a sleezy way to make money...if you do thats your own deal...but i dont see how its bad.

@jaximflash: here you go: [isohunt.com]

Creative should have taken this up with MS in the first place or put out a decent fix. But they didn't so they should deal with the loss of sales on the newer products.

Either way, I'll never buy another product from them.

More disappointment from Vista and Creative. Vista is the stupidest purchase I have ever made, nothing works in vista. I have an older creative sound card and nothing works on it. Musicians beware of using Vista, the only thing that will work is brand new sound cards and software made for vista (that means most of the audio software you use in xp will not work). Vista will be the last MS purchase I will ever make, I am moving back over to mac for audio and I will continue using linux for everything else.

Bunch of jerks. Good thing I've dumped Creative long time ago. I mean seriously, how can a dedicated sound card can be any better than an integrated one for 90% of your normal usage?

Only a sheep just jumps in bombards Creative without making sure they fully understand the issue. (And shame on Giz for the photo, and the seeming encouragement to harassment ...)

Without knowing in detail exactly what Daniel_K's drivers did for what products, and how that compares with those products' features under XP, it isn't easy to say who is on the moral high ground here. If the drivers merely enable under vista functions that were already there under XP, then Daniel_K is unquestionably the "programming hero" Giz seems to think he is. But if the drivers unlock additional functionality that were never meant to be in the products are originally purchase - and that is what Creative's message seems to imply - then that is a whole different kettle of fish ...

Using common hardware/silicon across a wide range of products is a way of saving money and lowering the average cost, which benefits all consumers. Then using software to enable or disable various features at different price points makes it possible to produce cheaper card for the entry level.

Regardless, this isn't a simple subject, and without more info I'm not convinced that Creative is necessarily quite the villain they're being portrayed as. Let's have some balance here - knee-jerk nutjobs need not apply.

link this to consumerist.com

@DirkusMaximus: Creative is still in business? I agree, Fuck this overpaid pompous asshole. He probably makes $125,000 a year and has no clue about what he gets paid that obscene amount of money for.

I am so sick of these greedy fucking cocksuckers overtaking corporate America.

dirkus: i sent this e.mail out:

Dear sir,

Please add my e.mail to the growing chorus of consumers who vigorously object to the driver maintenance and distribution practices of Creative.

After having read of the latest moves on Gizmodo of Creative's part to stifle 3rd party development, it has now become clear to me that Creative cannot be trusted to support their products after purchase, if a new version or service pack to a Windows product is released.

In my career capacity as an IT technician, I am often solicited for advice on the purchase of personal and business computers. Sound hardware is a relatively low or nonexistent priority in the minds of most consumers and businesses, so for those I will advise them to stick with RealTek embedded into motherboards. For the high end consumers, I will recommend Turtle Beach.

I suggest you have your company reevaluate its business practices so that you learn to befriend your customers instead of trying to manipulate them.

jcy

So people are bashing Phil for doing the legal thing? He's not against this guy's work, he just wants it to be legal. You people who are going on about Creative in a negative way must know jack shit about business.

I suppose none of you know about intellectual property and licensing huh? Please take a lesson before you throw your hate around

That's stupid. They should buy the technology from this guy instead of shutting him down.

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Uh, No. No where in the cease & desist did it give the kid an option to publish code "legally".

Also, I think its pretty arrogant to assume that we dont know anything about business.

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Well put.

But the intenets are anything but politically correct or logical. It's too easy to just jump on the hate train when they see 'injustice'. Both sides of the story won't get looked at, that's how internet vigilantism works.

.. it's retarded.

Daniel should create an alias, switch to an anonymous host in the Netherlands, and continue his great work.

My email, explaining how they've turned a lifelong (well, as long as I've had a PC) Creative fan into someone that won't touch their stuff with a shitty stick.

[i]Well done sir!

I've always been a user and fan of the Creative line of PC audio products. I've used your sound cards from the original soundblaster all the way through to my current card an Audigy SE (on XP, so it works without a third party driver). I've recommended your products to my not-so-PC-literate friends, I've put them in machines I've built for people and even given one as a gift. I spurned the Apple kool-aid and loved my Creative Zen Muvo, then Micro.

And those many, many dollars spent are going to be the last ones you ever get from me. Your company has never been the best for driver support, but you usually did the right thing. This time you've not only chosen to shaft your customers with what I'm told (no Vista, so not experienced it personally) are some shoddy Vista drivers, but you've chosen to wave your big legal stick at a one-man-band trying to take up YOUR slack. Shameful behaviour which I'll no longer support by buying your products. Congratulations, you turned a repeat customer of many years into a consumer who actively avoids your product. Bravo.

Bowen Sorby-Firth
Former Creative customer.[/i]

If some guy working out of his garage on donations is really doing enough damage to hurt Creative's business, I just have to laugh.

Creative has made the suckiest sucktastic sound cards for so long. I charcterize all the stuff you have to load on your PC as "bloatware" for sure. You have to load their media player, their buggy control panels, oy! It's a mess.

The Razer Barracuda or Auzentech cards have been better for a long time--and they have DTS Interactive and Dolby Digital live (i.e. they encode DTS or AC3 5.1 real-time)... something that's been auspiciously absent from any Creative offerings.

@bigMoneyMIKE:

You want Phil to openly bring up licensing him in a forum thread rather than making private correspondence about licensing? Do you honestly believe Creative is wrong for protecting their own IP and licensing here? Read the quote. They support his efforts, as long as it's within legal ground. How is that any different from any other company with intellectual property? Gizmodo needs a serious lesson in business, and sadly many here do too.

Should we just copy and paste Gizmodo's articles, and anything else that's copywritten and put our names under it without any legal permission to do so? Would Gawker not come down on people who do that? It's essentially the same damn thing. Daniel_K was doing something illegal. You can make him a hero, but that doesn't mean he was correct.

Shame on you guys

@scarbrtj:

Yet Auzentech is now tapping Creative's technology in their latest soundcards. Hmmm

How bout' instead of fucking threatening him, offer him a job or pay for his drivers.

Idiots >.>

@Zlevee:

Right-o...Unfortunatly.

No matter, At the moment ASUS Computers currently makes the best Sound Card for PCI-E slots anyhow.

Matter of a fact it has the highest frequency range of any current PCI-E slot sound card you can buy. Not to mention that in the near future they will impliment one of the richest sounding card ever made.. IMO ASUS is the very best and the NEW Leader in the market.

I have a Creative X-FI Fatality Champion series, ya know the one with the front output...

Well this little baby is gonna get replaced today, after reading this crapola.

I have since creative could not keep up withe drivers for Vista, been highly dissapointed by their decesions, and Like HP I believe, tehy are just out to make a fast buck selling newer products. getting back to what HP did, i read right here on these boards. HP refused to provide drivers for a Scanner/Printer to customers simply because it was 3-4 years old, and told a customer that there was only one way to get the printer to work, but scanner and other items attached would cease to function...

De Ja Vu...Greed is evil.

Wonder why I have chose then name I have here...
Simply Read above.

i use a bundled 3rd party video conf app to keep in touch with family on the opposite coast, and part of their package includes creative equipment. evidently creative didn't sup[ply visat drivers for some of these items and it took about 10 tries with support at that 3rd party to confirm what i told them on day 2. creative does have many vista drivers now for their newer equipment, forcing you to update peripherals.

8@5+@rd5

I'd like to know exactly where this guy is doing something illegal. Making software from original code for a piece of hardware you still have to pay full price for doesn't seem illegal, especially when he's not charging for it. In fact if his software was that good I'd buy a Creative sound card based on it.

Is it really illegal to create software like this? I know it happens with a lot of other devices but I never hear about anything being illegal, discouraged I'm sure, but not outside the bounds of the law.

Regardless, why does Creative have to be dicks? They should hire him. The only reason they have to not support this man is because he's not in their plans to make money, in which case I wouldn't give them any of mine ever again.