And... the state of New York singlehandedly kills internet commerce.

We want more money!
From where?
Umm..., I don't know, how 'bout the internet! Yeah, give us some of the internet money!

I wonder what the ebay consequences of this bill will be. I ship stuff to NY all the time and I don't like the idea of being forced to make people pay taxes (even though I think I'm supposed to do so anyway).

I thought a number of state had tried this before and it was pretty much decided that this was an interference with interstate commerce that only the Feds could regulate. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't stand up.

@weatherman: Yeah, there's a Supreme Court decision standing in their way right now that says it'd kill interstate commerce to regulate it this way. But that decision was handed down in 1992. I'm guessing retailers would say something about how everything's changed since then.

Yea, I've been dealing with this since I moved to Washington state. It blows, but at least we get the benefit of the Amazon business and workforce which has saved our market from crumbling.
We don't have a state income tax just 8.8% sales tax so if we need to use Amazon we ship to friends in Portland (no sales tax). Sounds like you'll need a friend in out of state for big ticket purchases.

No taxation without representation!

If we weren't such lazy Americans content to sit on our asses typing out all our frustrations, we could go protest the new tax law and get it reversed. That's what they do in other countries anyway. *shrugs*

BOOO!!!

Bet if it was online coke or pot or hookers you wouldn't have to pay taxes on it in NY. Or at the very least the Gov wouldn't sign it.

@Seiko: Now now. our new governor doesn't use hookers. He merely allegedly used campaign funds to pay for his extra-marital trysts in upper west side hotels. But he also allegedly paid the money back.

Hookers was the last guy. Please do not confuse our gubernatorial vices. We're having a hard enough time keeping up as it is.

How does this affect items leaving the state? I spend a lot of money at B&H Photo namely because of the savings on sales tax which amounts to quite a bit on multi-thousand dollar purchases.

Goddamned left-wing, socialist, greedy Liberals! Too bad I live in "Yes We Can" state of TAxachusetts. I guess we're probably next.

you are bleeding us dry here! No wait, bleeding us broke!

@SeattleTed:

Amazon is DEFINATELY NOT saving the Puget Sound area market from crumbling.

I was an intern there as a sophomore in college... There are about 3000 Seattle area Amazon.com employees (corporate and fulfillment centers)

Compare that to the amount of employees that Boeing, Microsoft, Costco in the Puget Sound.... Sure Amazon.com helps... but it's not a deciding factor like Boeing was in the 70s

I don't think the legislators realize how this will impact internet commerce. Say for instance that just NY decides to start taxing purchases shipped to that state...well that's one more thing small online companies have to worry about and keep record of and so on and so forth. But imagine that all 50 states are doing this...smaller online companies aren't going to survive simply because they won't be able to afford to hire professionals to keep track of where all the state tax money is coming from and going to. I buy from many small companies that I find on eBay and PriceGrabber when they are both price competitive and have good reviews. I'm guessing most of them are one or two guy operations! Add another guy to the mix and your profits go down the drain.

This kind of thinking is going to KILL a lot of online commerce.

@apeguero: From Wikipedia: "The New York State Legislature is currently split by party. The Senate is controlled by the Republican Party, who have a 32-30 majority, but the Assembly is controlled by a Democratic supermajority of 106-42 seats." Suck on that, genius. Data is also backed up on CSG.org, a Coalition of State Governments group. Feel free to look if you'd rather educate yourself before embarrassing yourself further with more mindless, dishonest drivel.

This sucks. I never hopped on the Amazon wagon. I still like retail experience. This is definitely not going to do it for me.

@jamesuschrist: Therein lies the next great internet idea for making the moneys quick and buying the good AVs: a tax aggregating gadget that automatically handles tax rules for every state, available to the small business owner at 5 cents a sale. Venture capital anyone?

I'm not a fan of taxes (who is) but I never understood why the merchant that pays rent, stocks product, offers good customer service and product knowledge, and has a physical presence in-state should be penalized by trying to compete with some eBay seller working out of his garage.

"New York Hates Me"

That really does sum it all up.

And you make it sound like you're from 'the' city. Which is different from the rest of NY since the rest of the state has been in a post-industrial recession for years and no one has been able to revive the area. (I'm from Buffalo, so I speak mainly for Buffalo, but I've talked to plenty from other cities who claim it's the same)

I mean, we're getting just as much taxes as you guys are, except you're the area of the state that's actually profitable.

I

@92BuickLeSabre:
Well you could be NJ, were they swing both ways :)

[en.wikipedia.org]

According to this, all that we states can't put a tax on interstate commerce. All interstate business is regulated by
the Feds.

At least, that's my understanding of the issue.

Guess we'll be buying from local now on.

To protest this, all you NY's here should take a boat onto the Hudson, and dump a ton of Amazon-purchased books overboard.

@stanfrombrooklyn:
agree on that it's not fair, but at the same time, brick/mortar retailers can also bank on impulse and emergency holiday/birthday/etc shopping, online cannot compete as shipping kills that opportunity. Last minute shopping is a serious % income. Waldemort doesn't have to pay property tax so small businesses can't compete with ones NEXT to them - where's the fair? Gas prices may change my mind - many may opt to have it shipped versus driving to get it - leaving mom/pop shops in the dry. Taxes (for the most part) suck as gov't wastes it away anyway... Major tax overhaul required! Wish it had oversight from retired impartial business men with nothing better to do than to leave a legacy, not make more fraud.

What about non-internet mail order / catalog purchases? Does the proposed bill cover that as well?

@stanfrombrooklyn:
To my mind, it's not a "perk" that out of state businesses get to avoid the state sales tax as much as the fact that the our of state businesses are out of REACH of the state tax goobers.

Personally, I think that sales tax is a horrendous injustice and uncalled for burden on business. I'm originally from NH where there is no sales tax. Been in Maine for over 10 years now and the 5% sales tax still bugs the hell out of me.

Nothing like crippling business in a recession!

NOOOOO this is the beginning of the end

So, to the author and everyone else who agrees with her: Are you against sales tax in general, just this particular sales tax, or are you just against taxes? Its there a better way to collect revenue, or do you have an idea for how a government can run without revenue?

I wonder if Client Number 9 paid sales tax on his Amazon orders.

@catbutt

I have two problems. The first is with government entities (state, local, or federal) that sit there and actively looks for new sources of revenue instead of living within what they have. The second issue is protectionism. Their goal here is to "protect" local businesses but history shows it never works that way and these types of acts have all sorts of unintended consequences that no one thought of.

For those that think local business are operating at a disadvantage because Amazon doesn't force its customers to pay sales tax - each business - whether brick or morter or mail order has different challenges to attract customers. With Amazon you have to deal with shipping costs and delays in getting the product. So local retailers are really at an advantage over Amazon already.

I guess people in neighboring states will be getting loads of friends from NY.

@catbutt:

smaller government would need less revenue. a government which can always raise taxes without impunity has no incentive to be frugal or efficient.

The law only applies to internet retailers that have affiliate programs, with the "logic" apparently being that if you have affiliates, some of them are undoubtedly in NY and as such Amazon has a "presence" in NY and as such, is subject to sales tax.

Me, I'd just consider cutting off all affiliate members in NY.

At any rate, their logic may be flawed and the whole thing subject to appeal, but I suspect that they've decided to roll the dice. Lose, they're out legal fees for lawyers they already have on staff, win, and they stand to collect millions in tax revenues.

@jiznerdo:

doh, i mean _with_ impunity and without accountability.

unacceptable.

How is it possible for a government in one state to require anyone in any other state to do anything? Can California's state government pass laws that require people in other states to pay use taxes to California every time they use technologies that were developed in California or every time they watch movies or television shows that were produced in California? How far can this cross-polity taxing go? Can the City of Santa Clara levy a tax on Milpitas and Alviso for smelling bad?

Before you know it they'll be taxing beer. Doh!

Consumers are supposed to report purchases they make online on their tax returns, but virtually nobody does it and enforcement is impossible.

Who else does this besides myself?

So the reason this law is looking legitimate is that New York is saying Amazon actually has a sales presence in the state due to their Associates program where associates put up Amazon.com advertising on their New York-based web sites which is the initial point-of-sale. If Amazon we're to disallow any associates from NY from participating in their program, it would be back to a situation where Amazon was not required to collect sales tax on out-of-state purchases.

@SeattleTed: Exactly what I’m going to do. From now all Amazon over $100.00 are being shipped to my ranch manager in Montana, a state with no income taxes. For a few bucks he will priority parcel it to me in NYC and fuck NYS and Patterson. Every damn year I end up spending a fortune on NYS and NYC taxes and I am not going to stand up for this crap. The shame is as an upper income tax payer I get absolutely nothing for my tax dollar. Nothing. Well nothing but seeing a bunch of fourth generation welfare slackers living on the dole and knocking out babies.

Just vote for Hillary and Barack so the rest of the nation can be penalized for using the internet just like New York.

If you love taxes, vote for a Democrat this fall.

This story is yet another example of why I have no clue how anyone could vote for a Democrat.... EVER! All they want is money from everyone!! It is pathetic!

@aphex242: I have forgotten what I wanted to bitch at you about, so consider yourself bitched out and disagreed with!! :^))

What a total load. Thanks a lot, state government. A$$holes...

So that TV from Newegg I was going to buy and save hundreds on is now going to cost me $200 more. I'm still netting a cheaper price buying online. Seems 'penny wise; pound foolish' to think this will sway anyone to stop using internet commerce alltogether since many items are cheaper even with the added tax and shipping. Consumers will still feel slighted though after the govt closes the door to this loophole we've been taking advantage of for over a decade. I'll tell ya I aint happy about it.

@Siouxperman: You do realize that the current administration has but this country into SEVER DEBT. No matter who goes in, that money will have to be raised somehow.

Do you think a Republican next term wont have to raise taxes? McCain, who says this war can go another 100 years and will not withdraw, will have to find some source to fund it.

Knee-Jerk partyline toter...do you even live in the real world?

@apeguero: You are so stupid.

End.

Well this is what voting for liberals and democracts will get you. Way to go NY. You've set the bar for every other state. Thanks.

@Siouxperman: Hmm. Well considering how the Clintons built their platform on fiscal conservatism, this doesn't make much sense.

Also, if you'll remember - the New York State Senate is mostly Republican. They're the ones who voted these taxes in.

The federal government keeps "earning" more money each year from taxes but it's never enough. The same applies to most states. The problem is that the politicians can't stop themselves from spending the money and at the federal level a large proportion of the spending is practically untouchable because it's soc security or other non-discretionary spending. It's almost worth quitting my job just so less of my money gets wasted by bloated government. What the heck, maybe I'll qualify for some government programs and sponge off the rest of you suckers!

[www.cbo.gov]

Elaine Chow, did you vote for Spitzer? Do you typically vote Democrat? If so, then stop complaining. Nuff said.

This is definitely interstate commerce. As such, it cant be regulated by individual states. Taxing interstate commerce is definitely part of the federal governments power of taxation. It is, however not part of State power of taxation. Its basically unconstitutional. If anything, this legislation will be over turned by the state Supreme Court.

@renditionman & GiltProto: well, you do get to live in the best democracy ever to grace the planet, with the protection of the most powerful military in human history, a court system and system of ownership and property rights... all to protect you and your money from the "slackers" rising up and taking it from you. So count your blessings and kiss the Stars and Bars; patriots pay taxes.

oh well, it was nice while it lasted. unless theres free shipping i'll probably have no choice but to go back to the B&M stores.

@funkonaut: what? because I voted Spitzer in I can no longer be upset by his policies or question his decisions? Maybe that's the dumb approach to politics that left us with an idiot president - ever think about that?

@MBPro: Stupid for what? Saying the obvious? Liberals and Democrats are the ones that have always pushed for more social programs at the expense of the consumer by charging more and more taxes. Period.

So, New York is a Blue state, Democratic Governor, Democratic House (thanks aphex242 for the info), Democratic leaning populous, at least in NYC, I don't know about up state, but the state normally votes Democrat. So you get what you vote for. Republicans have not been known as big pushers for new taxes or big increases. True, the idiots in the White House now have spent us into oblivion with their insistence to force feed democracy down the throats of people that don't really want it. But this jive was never an issue when Pataki was in charge. They can't figure out how else to raise revenue so they resort to this. The state currently charges some of the highest sales taxes and state income taxes in the Union. How can they not make ends meet with all of the tax money they currently get?

Look, I'd go for a Socialist government, believe it or not. I came from nothing. I was not born in this country. I came from absolute poverty (legally, with a Green Card mind you). My parents worked their asses off to make sure I got a good education and a chance to be professional. My parents took took food stamps to help them bring up my family. But only as a last resort and while they needed it. They didn't want to be known or "coje cupones" or "welfare people". There's pride in my family. That social program helped us. It worked for us and I'm sure it's working for others but there's a lot of abuse going on. Just drive by your local project housing and tell me if you find parking there. Too many Lexus, new Hondas and Camrys, SUVs, BMWs, you name it. You'll see Air Conditioners in every window running in the middle of winter, all lights on. Don't get me started.

The problem is that the socialist programs in this country only support the people that are either too lazy to get off of their asses to better their life or too smart to get off of the Government tit. Hard working family people like myself, that make more than $50,000.00 a year but can barely support my family, don't qualify for jack! So I have to work my ass off to make sure my kids get the same chance I got. But yet I'm expected to pay through my ass for taxes to support all kinds of lazy asses. No!

Call me stupid if you want MBPro. I'm sure you're doing nothing but naming millions of other hard working Americans that feel the same way that I do. Governments should do a better job of monitoring their social programs and ensure that only the ones that really need it are using these programs. Prosecute the abusers or take the lazy off of the programs. This country is trying to do too much with too