I remember you guys showed a Prius with a solar panel:

[gizmodo.com]

Now which one do you guys think would be a better cost-benefit ratio? Methinks the solar.

The gas-savings calc. on the site is pretty cool. But on average, if you drive 10K miles a year in your PriPri (city/ highway 50/50) you are only saving about 500$ which makes the kit worth while after 20 years. And that is if gas prices remained constant, which istn't gonna happen. Who's to say your Prius is even gonna run for that long.

From what I understand there's a patent on file for a device that will allow your car to get upwards of 100mpg. Does anyone know if there's any validity to that rumor? It's been around for many, many years (and it's not a battery device like this).

@e10: There would be better cars out by then, especially the way the government is really starting to show signs of a crack down on the auto industry's MPG standards.

Well-played South Park reference.

Anyone do the math on whether charging a battery from a wall outlet is cheaper than running the car normally? Or is this targeted at the person close enough to a neighbor's house to use their outlet?

@GOKOR: you are kinda' joking, right? "Cracking down" on MPG standards to achieve a whopping 30MPG is not really cracking down - that's bending over and takin' it without vasoline! It's up to you and me to go beyond the inneptitude of the corporate / government bureaucracy.

i.e. they're giving them incentives worth $1000's per car for them to install a $50 part making it "flex-fuel" which nobody could use because there're only a handful of stations offering E85 - etc... it's all BS.

This little prius add-on is nice but hopefully come down about 2/3 in price to make it viable. Also, hopefully people will plug this into a non-coal-on-the-other-end outlet to make it make sense.

I hope you guys actually don't drive that priuce of shit, fuggliest car around. If it got 200 mpg I still wouldn't buy one.

When more efficient vehicles start coming out in the form of the tesla roadster, sign me up. Meanwhile hybrid is still a shoddy answer to our gasoline crisis, it doesn't get to the root of the problem which is of course like zarchitect said, the government. If they would let us drill for our own oil or even build a damned new refinery we'd be in such better shape.

And please please please don't vote for more ethanol it's a waste of everything, money, food, taxes.

Heh, heh, sounds like hymen.

@e10: "But on average, if you drive 10K miles a year in your PriPri (city/ highway 50/50) you are only saving about 500$ which makes the kit worth while after 20 years."

No, it doesn't! This is not how money works. A dollar tomorrow is worth less than a dollar today. If you had $10k today, you could invest it and make more than $500/yr FOREVER. You will NEVER break even with this device; it is, rather, a mechanism for prying apart fools and money.

@sisedi: so...since the tesla is electric and is in production, you've already signed up for one? if a fugly car means more money to go towards food and rent and less to go to an oil company or their shortsighted shareholders, i'll take fugly.

drilling for our own oil is no solution either. by the time any work was complete, it would be years down the line. prices would have increased to the point where any moderation would only make a gallon less impossible to afford. and we'd only accelerate the damage done to the environment by continuing a cycle that's already done a hundred years' worth of destruction.

@Pender: considering how fast the cost of a gallon has been incresing over the past few years, you might want to double-check your figures. the extra that you pay for a hybrid vs a regular engine has been roughly constant since their introduction. the price of a gallon has more than doubled. projected cost savings only account for current prices, and overall inflation over the past 5 years is at far less than the 125% increase in fuel prices.

i'm in the market for a hybrid, so i've been doing the math based on my last car, which went 100k miles in 5 years. if i pay an extra 3k for a hybrid today and gas prices don't change, i would break even at some point in that 5th year. if those prices more than double again as they have over the past 5 years, i would be far into the black on that price premium long before the thing was paid off. by your own reasoning, it makes more sense to spend the extra money now, while that money has more value.

Heres how its going to be: We have 2 more years before the plug-in hybrids start to roll out. And currently they are dependent on expensive lithium ion batteries. Several new technologies promise to make them cheaper and better. But, they are not yet there so we have at least the 2 year wait. Current hybrids offer about a 2x increase in mileage. Plug-ins should offer a 4x increase for normal commuting. Electricity from the grid is much cheaper energy as compared to gasoline and even if it comes from a coal fired plant the CO2 emissions are less than that of just burning gasoline. Because these plug-in hybrids and other technologies are coming but are not yet here we are going to see at least $6 gas (or higher) over the next couple years and probably $8 within 4 years. Thats right! $8 a gallon is coming! And this is not the oil companies riping us off its the oil nations such as Iran, Venezuela, Nigeria and Russia who are not friendly to the US that are driving up the price. They want to make as much profit off their resources as they can and if they can tube the US while doing it they feel all the better. Also, be prepared to pay $5k to $10k more for these new hybrid plug-ins as they won't be any cheaper (if ever) until the tech is mainstream. Get used to only driving when you need to (not when you want to) unless your wealthy.

@lschofield: It's about one tenth the cost of using gasoline.

Hey, guys:

Just curious...what's the pay-back time for buying a $30-40,000 SUV?

And, what's the pay-back time for paying extra to get say, a Camry instead of a Corolla? What about a Lexus instead of a Corolla? If I buy a Corvette instead of a Hyundai Accent, how many years will it take for me to make my money back?

Here's a little insight for some of the commenters above: for some people, the purpose of a car isn't to "look cool." If you think saying "the Prius is ugly" is a good counter-argument for owning one, you clearly value appearances more than other features. Some of us don't. And maybe some of us don't think the Prius is ugly -- that's what's known as an opinion, and therefore it is not universal.

Here's another tid-bit: saving money isn't the only reason to buy a hybrid or upgrade its battery. Some people put value on things like helping the environment, or sending less money to oil companies, owning cool technology, or just making a statement. And nobody better even think about bringing up that old "Prius is less green than a Hummer" bit of nonsense...

And finally: Please realize that there are about 48 different ways to look at the "saving money" issue anyway. Maybe *some* people *want* to spend $30,000 on a car. In fact, judging by the number of luxury cars and big SUV's on the road, there's lots of people who want to spend way more than that. If you replace one of those with a Prius, you've already saved money. If you replace one of those with a Prius plus a $10,000 battery pack, you've still spent the same or less...and your out-of-pocket gas expenses for the next 5-10 years are going to be much lower. But, again, the whole point isn't just to "save money" -- if it was, we'd all be riding around on motor scooters.

@Uncle Remus: Why don't these countries like us? What could we have possibly done over the past 7.5 years to make them not like us? Do they also hate us for our freedom? (snark).

those cars are such jokes.

if you want to be 'eco friendly', ride a bike assholes.

i would much rather drive a non-hybrid euro-spec smart fortwo. 70mpg and it doesn't look like a piece of crap prius.

people forget that mpg isnt the only 'green factor' when it comes to vehicles.

for example, i read that the prius' tires only last for about 13k miles. talk about wasteful!

"i would much rather drive a non-hybrid euro-spec smart fortwo. 70mpg and it doesn't look like a piece of crap prius."

Don't be hatin'

@theorie: You think the fortwo is good-looking and the Prius is a piece of crap? Good god man, seek professional help!

By the way, the EPA rates the smart's gas mileage as 36 mpg combined. Also, you have a link about the Prius's tires? The last several model year Prius's come equipped with Goodyear Integrity tires with a 50,000 mile warranty. Don't believe everything that you read, cause I read that you are mildly retarded.

Sorry to break the news to you, but the reason you're paying so much more at the pump these days isn't because Iran and Russia are sticking it to you, it's because of the rising middle class in India and China. Here in Canada we're experiencing high gas prices too (about $1.25/litre) despite the fact that we're an oil producing country. Global demand effects everyone. Since demand will continue to increase sending gas prices up we have only two options in the west: switch to more full-efficient vehicles or drive less (walk, cycle, or take public transit if possible).

@theorie: Your point about Prius tires is a good one if it's true (and it may be...it looks like the "wear rating" for standard Prius tires might be 160, while tires I buy are usually 400 and last 40-50,000 miles.) That is definitely worth looking into...

On the other hand, it can be difficult for many Americans to get ahold of a euro-spec smart fortwo. The Smart Fortwo we get is rated more around 40mpg. And it only holds 2 people, while you *could* put 5 in a Prius. For a small family looking to own just one car, a Smart ForTwo isn't even an option...

On the third hand, your "ride a bike assholes" is a little short-sighted. Not everybody lives within biking distance of work; not everybody wants to live in a crowded, crime-filled smoggy city in an apartment that costs as much as a house 20 miles away -- some would rather live in a house with a yard and deal with the commute. A house in the suburbs might be closer to farms and might also be more solar-panel friendly than a city apartment, so not everything is as simple as it may seem anyway.

Further, people forget that "not driving" isn't the only 'green factor' when it comes to biking.

For example, some people are very obese. Do you know what Fat is? Mostly Carbon. Sequestered carbon. If they bike to work, and start huffing and puffing, that's the sound of fat being converted to CO2. Perhaps the big-boned among us should be encouraged to ride the bus/train, not bike.

@theorie: You actually think the fortwo looks better than a Prius. At least Prius stands a chance of surviving a crash... although that's stretching it a bit.

@Shingo56: the fourtwo while ridiculous, is actually incredibly safe.

At least the aftermarket options seem to be coming: extra batteries, PHEVs, solar panels and chargers. In fact, that's one reason I'm seriously considering a Prius dispite the fact I don't really like the way it looks.

I've heard some people talk about, say, a diesel TDI VW that get's 60MPG over the Prius's 50MPG. Then again, diesel in the US is about 15-20% more than gas, and that TDI will NEVER do better than 60MPG.

And an upgraded Prius will.

@EQC: Well put, but as they say ignorance is bliss, and well, most american's are pretty blissed out.

Gas prices are rising because there's nothing left for oil companies to take from customers and station owners. Gas stations used to be called service stations because they had people on hand to provide service. Now it's all self-serve. Instead of raising prices, service was sacrificed.

Station owners used to make money selling gas. Now they make barely enough to cover the pump usage and are forced to sell snacks to make any profit. Essentially, oil companies squeezed out customer service and owner profits to keep the price at the pump down. With nothing left to squeeze, prices are going up.

@sisedi: sigh. do you apply the same logic with recycling "since i can't recycle everything i won't recycle anything")?

don't get me wrong you're entitled to your own choice but when you try to validate your choice with the "it's ugly and doesn't completely solve the problem" well ...

@theorie: read this asshole: my original tires on my '04 lasted for 48,000 miles and still had more miles on them when i got them replaced. they went through the totally random torture of st. louis weather and roads too.

@sumocat: it's a low supply and high demand that's causing prices to surge.

Another reason for the spike in oil prices is that the dollar is in the shitter, the US economy is going backwards and nobody wants to invest in American equities. So they are buying oil futures. And why not? With all the panic about oil, people just keep buying, the prices keep going up, and the speculators are making millions off of consumers' uninformed panic.

@e10:

Umm I'm sure if you included this, however I'll say it.

What if you drive 10k miles a year but only about 50 miles a day? (Even <50 in just a city environment)
Your savings will be a lot cheaper than just $500.
Many people live in cities, so that would be good in that aspect. However you maybe be right if the person lives in the country.

What good is 100mpg if the car needs a kit to even get 100 miles. Stupid.

@sisedi: and it only benefits the farmers and makes the price of corn go up as well as other vegetables because if other vegetables don't make as much money as a acre of corn,what's the use?
In Alaska,it's 30 miles to the nearest igloo..but thanks to Al Gore,the polar bears are crying...
meanwhile..back in the real world,a stalled cold front over Anchorage dumped a shaitload of snow..even my dad's jeep couldn't make it through the snow.
[seattlepi.nwsource.com]

the piece of..i mean the prius would do fine in san fran or ny..maybe even boston..not in anywhere rural with this type of kit.

there was an VW Lupo 3l some years back that did 3l/100 km. (0,79 gallon / 62 mile) so that would be about 80 mile to a gallon. A few years back...it went out of production since then. Not enough sales.

info: [www.usatoday.com]

@Paradise: Low supply and high demand does not explain all of the pricing problems. The fortune 500 just came out, and three of the five largest corporations are oil companies. They're reaping fabulous profits. In addition, oil has become a very speculative commodity. The most recent bumps in the price of gas have been attributed to political instability in producer nations and tensions in the persian gulf.

@Uncle Remus: using electricity in a car resulting from a coal-fired plant would not result in fewer CO2 emissions. The CO2 emissions would be about the same in the two cases you described.

Coal emits more CO2 than combustion of gasoline, but a coal plant is more efficient than your car's engine. Here's the math:

coal: 0.37 kg CO2 / kWh
average coal plant: ~37% efficient
(now emissions 1 kg CO2 / kWh)
average transmission loss: 8%
(now emissions 1.09 kg CO2 / kWh)
Electric motor efficiency: 96% (for a good one!)
Emissions are about 1.14 kg CO2/kWh

gasoline: 0.27 kg CO2 / kWh
average gasoline engine efficiency: ~25%
Emissions are about 1.08 kg / kWh

So the two are roughly equivalent for greenhouse gas emissions. And actually slightly worse for the coal case (and I didn't include electricity storage losses). For other pollutants, the comparison is, of course, different.

@Shingo56: "At least Prius stands a chance of surviving a crash... although that's stretching it a bit."

Actually, that's not stretching it at all. I was in a rollover crash in my Prius six years ago and crawled out of the upside down car and walked away with nothing but a couple tiny scratches.

@dave the wet sprocket: I'm sorry I'm responding so late but I didn't check back until now. The tesla has not been made into a commercially viable vehicle yet, it is still a concept and has not begun major manufacturing. The promises of that vehicle and those like it are immense, large MPGs, 0 emissions (if you're into that), etc etc but it's still quite some time away from the public being able to comfortably purchase one.

But I don't understand why you're saying my idea is useless. We beg for oil from other nations and they give as much as THEY want at the price THEY want us to buy it for. We're being raped doubly. Added to the fact that our current refineries are firing at 110% does not make for a suitable pricing situation for us heavy drivers. Anything and absolutely anything which would sway us away from Chavez and the Arabs for our supply would be excellent in the long run.

Add a few more refineries to handle the workload evenly and I guarantee you we will see lower gas prices which will only get lower. Meanwhile, we can vote with our dollars for more fuel efficient vehicles and one day eventually reach a market where 150MPG will be paltry.

@akmarksman: 100% agree, takes money away from other crops which we use not only to feed ourselves, but make other products from and feed to livestock. If livestock becomes more expensive to keep, that means our meat and dairy becomes more expensive as well.

The Prius batteries have an 8 year warranty, and typically, a person would drive 12000 miles a year.

That basically means that my Prius has a life expectancy of around 100K miles, and I can expect to buy 2000 gallons of gas during the lifetime of the car.

Unless the average price of gas during that lifetime is $5 or more, there's no break even here, even if I paid nothing extra for the electricity.

As someone else said, you don't buy this just to save money on gas, because it won't happen. You buy it to reduce your gas consumption, reduce the amount of greenhouse gases you generate, and to promote the technology so that it might become cheaper. Someone's gotta be on the bleeding edge.

@chumpzilla: You are correct on the coal plants averaging ~37% efficiency although the newer ones are reaching the high 40's. My point which I concede I exagerated a little on was that people who cry about power plants powering hybrids are just as bad as burning gas are wrong as a large number of plants are not coal burners (20% nukes).

Personally I'd love to outfit the house with solar and drive a plug-in hybrid. Just say FU to the power company and Oil companies as I only drive 6 miles each way to work. Only problem is the cost which would be around $55k combined after all rebates. If that gets down to around $35k combined I'm in.

@pagan_god: I've had my Prius for six years. I've driven over 100,000 miles, and my batteries are still going strong.

Please go recalculate. Thanks.

@Uncle Remus: Well, new coal plant designs are getting higher, but I'm not aware of any plants constructed in the US that are much more than 40%. Even the new IGCC plants will be around 41%. If we could (economically) use more of the waste heat for other purposes maybe we'd get somewhere...

I totally agree with your point. Average grid emission is less than 0.8 kg CO2/kWh and it can get lower with more nuclear, solar, etc. Besides that, other emissions (particulates, NOx, etc.) are easier (i.e. cheaper) to control from the large point sources of power plants than from individual cars.

Cheap, effective electricity storage is what we need to get plug-in hybrids to take off. Right now the economics don't make sense. However, the ever increasing gasoline cost is ensuring that we're converging toward more efficient technologies that are both kinds of green...

@pagan_god: 118,000 miles and counting. 2001 model Prius. And I've bought 2 sets of tires since I purchased the car. The original tires sucked, hydroplaned on an ant sneeze, but newer Goodyears took care of that. It's quiet, comfortable (if you're not "big-boned"), efficient (Still 40+ MPG after 7 years), and yes, I DO feel better when I fill up every other week for less than half what the SUV owners are paying. As for looks, well, I'm happy with mine (it's the "classic" design, not the newer 5-door model), but can't understand why people complain about the Prius when the half-a-car Smart and the "box-on-wheels" Scion are everywhere.