<![CDATA[Comments from Skeptic]]> http://cache.gawker.com/assets/base/img/thumbs140x140/gizmodo.com.png <![CDATA[Comments from Skeptic]]> http://gizmodo.com/people/ghhughes http://gizmodo.com/people/ghhughes Skeptic commented on Cure Poison Ivy and Jellyfish Stings with Vodka Poison Oak / Ivy: Vodka--Myth Busted, as others have noted. If you get in contact with Poison Oak / Ivy, use lots and lots of water as soon as you can. The oil is not very soluble in water, but it is somewhat soluble and water neutralizes the oil overtime. Also, the oil chemically bonds to your skin within around 30 minutes, so you need to try and wash it off before that happens.

Although you can spread the oil in poison oak by washing carelessly, you also need to be careful If you are still likely to come in contact with more that day. If you use use soap you will also wash off the natural oils on your skin that help protect you from. Use soap or a product like Tech-Nu (which is better at dissolving the oil) when you are out of possibility of contact so you may want to save the soap for the end of the day. And use Tech-Nu (or similar) to wash off tools, and other items that may be contaminated.

And, of course, check the facts out for yourself by reading up on the subject rather than trusting some anonymous internet poster :-)

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http://lifehacker.com/389188/cure-poison-ivy-and-jellyfish-stings-with-vodka#c5641916 http://lifehacker.com/389188/cure-poison-ivy-and-jellyfish-stings-with-vodka#c5641916 Sun, 11 May 2008 23:32:48 EDT
Skeptic commented on Is The "Unbreakable Autolock" Actually Just "Gone In 60 Seconds?"

by danio3834 at 09:47 AM Reply *
Years ago I thought the best security system would be to replace the driver's air bag with a 12 gauge shell and a primer that would activate when the vehicle is started in theft mode.

I figured the mess afterward would render the vehicle useless anyway, but revenge would be sweet.

The think about booby traps is that they are often much more likely to kill the creator than a thief. I can think of few things dumber than driving around with a an electrically fired shotgun aimed at your face. Well, that and the whole "booby traps that kill make you guilty of murder" thing....

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http://consumerist.com/5007926/is-the-unbreakable-autolock-actually-just-gone-in-60-seconds#c5547144 http://consumerist.com/5007926/is-the-unbreakable-autolock-actually-just-gone-in-60-seconds#c5547144 Tue, 06 May 2008 12:53:16 EDT
Skeptic commented on LendingTree Lawyers Threaten Blogger With Defamation Defamatory is ok if it is true.

Libel requires it to be **false** and defamatory, and sometimes **knowingly** false and defamatory.

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http://consumerist.com/383809/lendingtree-lawyers-threaten-blogger-with-defamation#c5370853 http://consumerist.com/383809/lendingtree-lawyers-threaten-blogger-with-defamation#c5370853 Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:30:29 EDT
Skeptic commented on Microsoft Stops Supporting MSN Music DRM, Tells You To Hurry Up And Transfer Your Songs

'd like to personally thank you for your continued support of MSN Music and encourage you to send us your feedback and suggestions about how we can continue to improve the MSN Music experience.

Sincerely,
Rob Bennett
General Manager, MSN Entertainment & Video Services

I've got a suggestion. How about you don't turn off the servers!!! Like Microsoft can't afford them.

How can MS be this stupid?

It looks like we need a law that says if they turn of the DRM key servers that they should have to provide a way to permanently remove the DRM.

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http://consumerist.com/383089/microsoft-stops-supporting-msn-music-drm-tells-you-to-hurry-up-and-transfer-your-songs#c5336120 http://consumerist.com/383089/microsoft-stops-supporting-msn-music-drm-tells-you-to-hurry-up-and-transfer-your-songs#c5336120 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:07:11 EDT
Skeptic commented on Doctor Who Says "Boycott Nike" Yeah, the whole brain in their hands part is a really silly, and poorly thought out bit. At least the translator balls had pocket clips on them, brains, not so much.

And how are the servant/slaves supposed to convince their masters/owners to pay to ship them back to the planet of the Ood???

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http://io9.com/382354/doctor-who-says-boycott-nike#c5307729 http://io9.com/382354/doctor-who-says-boycott-nike#c5307729 Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:51:04 EDT
Skeptic commented on Mini iMac Mod Wants to Be a Real Mac When it Grows Up Maybe it's just the photo but it looks like crap from the front.

The dock in Windoz is pretty funny, though.

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http://gizmodo.com/379609/mini-imac-mod-wants-to-be-a-real-mac-when-it-grows-up#c5186517 http://gizmodo.com/379609/mini-imac-mod-wants-to-be-a-real-mac-when-it-grows-up#c5186517 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:22:55 EDT
Skeptic commented on Hey, Thanks For The Bed Bugs! Your vacuum is your friend. While it isn't a perfect solution, you should vacuum your suitcase to help reduce the chance of the bedbugs coming home with you.

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http://consumerist.com/379140/hey-thanks-for-the-bed-bugs#c5183462 http://consumerist.com/379140/hey-thanks-for-the-bed-bugs#c5183462 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:37:59 EDT
Skeptic commented on Red Scarlet 3K HD Pocket Pro Camera Under $3000 "I have never once -never- said "damnit, i need to zoom more so i can get a shaky shot from 4 miles away when i really should just get closer"."

For industrial stuf, like shooting large conferences from across a ball room you need at least 20x to get a tit shot (MCU) and more is better. Sure, using little HD heads for large conferences might be under spec'd, but sometimes it is nice to be able to set up with out bring the heavy hear for mid-sized shows.

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http://gizmodo.com/379530/red-scarlet-3k-hd-pocket-pro-camera-under-3000#c5183065 http://gizmodo.com/379530/red-scarlet-3k-hd-pocket-pro-camera-under-3000#c5183065 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:23:37 EDT
Skeptic commented on Red Scarlet 3K HD Pocket Pro Camera Under $3000 EX1? Dude it's NAB time. Sony has announced the EX3! Too bad it will be in the 13k range.

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http://gizmodo.com/379530/red-scarlet-3k-hd-pocket-pro-camera-under-3000#c5182978 http://gizmodo.com/379530/red-scarlet-3k-hd-pocket-pro-camera-under-3000#c5182978 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:20:19 EDT
Skeptic commented on NCAA Charges Non-Refundable $9 Fee To Enter Ticket Lottery "Lots of lottery type things require a nominal fee to show you're serious."

And they are generally all technically illegal gambling unless there is an alternate, free method of entering (often requiring awkward, hand written entries be mailed, to make entry more troublesome but still meet the legal requirement of being "free" to enter).

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http://consumerist.com/376988/ncaa-charges-non+refundable-9-fee-to-enter-ticket-lottery#c5069035 http://consumerist.com/376988/ncaa-charges-non+refundable-9-fee-to-enter-ticket-lottery#c5069035 Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:52:52 EDT
Skeptic commented on Richard Dawkins: the Rap Video "My only desire in all of this is that people would try to understand the Bible as a whole rather than a single book, chapter, or even verse, at least for discussions on the matter. The further we move away from caricature in discussion (on faith/atheism or any matter) the better, I say."

That's going to be a tough sell. That is entirely a religious, faith-based position because the bible was not written as a single work. Both the old and new testaments are selectively cobbled together after the fact. Don't forget that for Jewish people, there is no New Testament, so it's even harder to claim the bible is one book. It's only one book if you are Christian, and even then different sects use different versions.

"is foolish to pick and choose portions of the Bible to live by based on personal preference, and that it's not valid to ignore difficult or seemingly backwards parts of it if one is a Christian."

I'd say it is moral to pick and choose. The bible prescribes many immoral actions, including killing people for being witches being disobedient to their parents. What's foolish is claiming the bible is a consistent moral work.

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http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5046401 http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5046401 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:16:21 EDT
Skeptic commented on Become a Star Commenter @RobDLG:

In Soviet Russia, Stars--oh, never mind...

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http://lifehacker.com/375953/become-a-star-commenter#c5041397 http://lifehacker.com/375953/become-a-star-commenter#c5041397 Sat, 05 Apr 2008 04:23:53 EDT
Skeptic commented on Richard Dawkins: the Rap Video "by RAHfanboy at 11:24 AM Reply
@Skeptic: ...
Also apparent, is that, to you, the lack of proof for atheism is different than the lack of proof for ID. You poo-poo one, but put great stock in the other."

Celestial Teapot. QED.

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http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5038424 http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5038424 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:10:43 EDT
Skeptic commented on Richard Dawkins: the Rap Video "by TheAardvark at 03:57 PM on 04/03/08 Reply
Of course, the dirty little secret is that PZM was at a ticketed showing, with no ticket."

Dirty little secret? Yes, indeed that would be quite the secret given that PZ Myers signed up on line with is real name just like everybody else. The on-line sign up sight was open to the public. There were no tickets for anybody. There was a list--a list that he was legitimately on.

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http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5038406 http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5038406 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:09:19 EDT
Skeptic commented on Become a Star Commenter BTW. Stars are cool, but nested comments and meta moderation would make the best comments stand out rather than rely on a crude reputation system.

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http://lifehacker.com/375953/become-a-star-commenter#c5038336 http://lifehacker.com/375953/become-a-star-commenter#c5038336 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:02:51 EDT
Skeptic commented on Become a Star Commenter @Gina Trapani:

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. However, Gawker editors should have a different symbol that IDs them as such.

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http://lifehacker.com/375953/become-a-star-commenter#c5038321 http://lifehacker.com/375953/become-a-star-commenter#c5038321 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:01:29 EDT
Skeptic commented on Need 30 mg? Walmart Charges You For Three 10 mg $4.00 Prescriptions "y joshthephenom at 02:13 PM Reply
@Serpephone: Out of curiosity... how much would your prescription cost if you had gone somewhere else?"

I think what people are objecting to is the lack of disclosure and the seeming deception, not the final price.

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http://consumerist.com/376127/need-30-mg-walmart-charges-you-for-three-10-mg-400-prescriptions#c5031116 http://consumerist.com/376127/need-30-mg-walmart-charges-you-for-three-10-mg-400-prescriptions#c5031116 Fri, 04 Apr 2008 14:39:19 EDT
Skeptic commented on Smallville Gets Just A Little Bit Smaller Well, at least it won't be Lanaville anymore...besides, can it really get more soap opra-ee?

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http://io9.com/375936/smallville-gets-just-a-little-bit-smaller#c5018858 http://io9.com/375936/smallville-gets-just-a-little-bit-smaller#c5018858 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:10:33 EDT
Skeptic commented on Richard Dawkins: the Rap Video Atheism and religion are two sides of the same coin, with neither side having any evidence whatever to support their faith. And yes, it's just as much faith on one side as the other."

Not really. Theists are atheists in regards to all other gods but their own, therefore theists are thing unto themselves.

You can check this handy list for proof that this is true:
[www.aboyandhiscomputer.com]

"We shouldn't teach Creationism in schools, nor Darwinism in church, but neither should we preach against them either."

Darwinism? You are perhaps thinking of the Theory of Evolution Through Natural Selection. Calling "Darwinism" is to play into the creationists frame.. The theory of evolution is based on current evidence and was merely proposed by Darwin, it has moved on since then.

And yes we certainly should lobby against "creationism." Creationism claims to be science, claims to have evidence that the earth is 6,000 years old and that T-Rex was a vegetarian--because all animals were vegetarian before the fall. This isn't just nonsense, it is nonsense posing as sense. It is a rather obvious case of overlapping magisteria. And it is a case of teaching people to think irrationally.

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http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5017131 http://io9.com/375766/richard-dawkins-the-rap-video#c5017131 Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:46:37 EDT
Skeptic commented on The Amazingly Awful Spider-Man "This is the full first episode with subs."

Thanks for the link. The subs are amazing--as if they are reading my mind...

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http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998549 http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998549 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:28:16 EDT
Skeptic commented on The Amazingly Awful Spider-Man "The japanese take on spiderman is so much better"

OMG. There's actually cheesy mecha! I can't tell from the clip if the mecha is the enemy or if it's Spidy's personal mech....

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http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998461 http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998461 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:19:44 EDT
Skeptic commented on The Amazingly Awful Spider-Man (paragraph 2 is a blockquote)

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http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998054 http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998054 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:38:46 EDT
Skeptic commented on The Amazingly Awful Spider-Man ...and gotta love the legal notice on the site the OP linked to.

PLAGIARISM IS ILLEGAL!
Please don't take any pictures, sounds, text or other content from this site without my EXPRESS, WRITTEN PERMISSION!

Uhm, you mean the **videos and screen grabs** from the show? The ones you "captured using a combination of the InterVIEW capture device from XLR8 and the GrabIT by AIMS Labs?" And the mp3s you captured "using Ultra Recorder and iTunes?" The ones I'm completely sure you have "EXPRESS, WRITTEN PERMISSION!" from the copyright owner to use? (*cough*cough*) Granted, I think illustrative examples constitute fair use, but please spare us the arrogant and hypocritical copyright lecture.

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http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998050 http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4998050 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:38:16 EDT
Skeptic commented on The Amazingly Awful Spider-Man Wow. That really puts the "crap" in "craptastic." But, it's hard to be worse than Superboy.

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http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4997957 http://io9.com/375360/the-amazingly-awful-spider+man#c4997957 Wed, 02 Apr 2008 20:28:08 EDT
Skeptic commented on Hackers Attack Epileptics Forum With <i>Snow Crash</i>-like Seizure Inducing GIFs All you have to do is look at the visceral reaction to this hack and, because of that reaction, how willing people are to attribute the hack without evidence to an enemy of the Church of Scientology. How perfectly convenient. Too convenient.

Have a care. Criticize the action but be careful who you blame. Don't let your emotions turn off your sense of reason, they way the attacker probably wants you to.

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http://gizmodo.com/373768/hackers-attack-epileptics-forum-with-snow-crash+like-seizure-inducing-gifs#c4933270 http://gizmodo.com/373768/hackers-attack-epileptics-forum-with-snow-crash+like-seizure-inducing-gifs#c4933270 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:26:56 EDT
Skeptic commented on Hackers Attack Epileptics Forum With <i>Snow Crash</i>-like Seizure Inducing GIFs The CoS has a proven history of trying to scapegoat its critics. CoS likes people to know they will pay a price for investigating or criticizing the church so as to discourage people from doing so. It works. I'm afraid of criticizing CoS, so I've toned down my remarks from what I'd like to say.

If Anonymous thinks CoS is bad it is highly unlikely Anonymous would be interested in hurting people through a hack. Wired was very irresponsible in its reporting. It is far, far more likely that someone (*cough*) is trying to make Anonymous look bad and is willing to hurt people do so. Now who has an official policy of trying to destroy their enemies by any means necessary--a policy formerly called "Fair Game" but no longer referred to by name for fear of bad publicity, but, of course, the policy is still in effect--?

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http://gizmodo.com/373768/hackers-attack-epileptics-forum-with-snow-crash+like-seizure-inducing-gifs#c4933253 http://gizmodo.com/373768/hackers-attack-epileptics-forum-with-snow-crash+like-seizure-inducing-gifs#c4933253 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:23:55 EDT
Skeptic commented on $5 a Month For Legal P2P: Would It Lure Pirates From the Dark Side? "Would $5 Unlimited P2P Stop Your Illegal Downloading?"

You for got to ask "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

Expect a subpoena from the RIAA for the IPs of everyone who voted yes **or** no.

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http://gizmodo.com/368948/5-a-month-for-legal-p2p-would-it-lure-pirates-from-the-dark-side#c4933135 http://gizmodo.com/368948/5-a-month-for-legal-p2p-would-it-lure-pirates-from-the-dark-side#c4933135 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:55:01 EDT
Skeptic commented on $5 a Month For Legal P2P: Would It Lure Pirates From the Dark Side? I'm sure Allofmp3 would be happy to pay a $5 a month fee not to be sued. Obviously that's not going to happen, so we can assume that there would be lots and lots of exceptions to this plan and lots and lots of others who would come with their hands out demanding an ISP "tax" (movie, tv, book, stock photo and software companies to name a few).

Bottom line: ain't gonna happen.

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http://gizmodo.com/368948/5-a-month-for-legal-p2p-would-it-lure-pirates-from-the-dark-side#c4933129 http://gizmodo.com/368948/5-a-month-for-legal-p2p-would-it-lure-pirates-from-the-dark-side#c4933129 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:53:11 EDT
Skeptic commented on Lawsuit Says Verizon's Text Message TV Show Contests Are "Illegal Gambling" Cute. I hadn't even noticed the blurry Verizon logos on the slot machine reels.

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http://consumerist.com/373720/lawsuit-says-verizons-text-message-tv-show-contests-are-illegal-gambling#c4933016 http://consumerist.com/373720/lawsuit-says-verizons-text-message-tv-show-contests-are-illegal-gambling#c4933016 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:28:40 EDT
Skeptic commented on Ralph Nader will be on Lou @Custom Reality:

Nader's sole purpose is looking out for Nader. Any consumer benefit is sometimes coincidental--especially these days. Same goes for Consumerist. Consumerist is a commercial entity. It exists for the sole purpose of making money. It happens to be able do so by taking the side of consumers, but making money for Consumerist is always the primary purpose.

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http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932975 http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932975 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:22:06 EDT
Skeptic commented on Ralph Nader will be on Lou "Only on The Consumerist will you find people bashing Nader. The one man in politics that has done more for the American public in his career than anyone else."

BS. You can find people bashing Nader plenty of places. It is possible for someone to have done helpful things in the past but to be doing counter productive things now. We can't ignore the latter for the former.

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http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932883 http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932883 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:05:24 EDT
Skeptic commented on Ralph Nader will be on Lou Thanks, sburnap42. Yes, you are right. I was trying to put the other 4 years of misery out of my mind.

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http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932876 http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932876 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:03:50 EDT
Skeptic commented on Ralph Nader will be on Lou F' Nader.

I used to admire him. But the fact that he was even considering running in the 2008 presidential race after what happened in 2004 was just too self-aggrandizing and counter productive to ignore.

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http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932841 http://consumerist.com/373767/#c4932841 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:54:44 EDT
Skeptic commented on TSA Forces Woman To Remove Nipple Piercings

by snoop-blog at 12:32 PM on 03/28/08 Reply
the real question is: what's more of a threat to our security? nipple piercings? or vagina piercings?

Pretty sure nobody has a vagina piercing--pierced external genitalia, sure, but not a pierced vagina.

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http://consumerist.com/373238/tsa-forces-woman-to-remove-nipple-piercings#c4932648 http://consumerist.com/373238/tsa-forces-woman-to-remove-nipple-piercings#c4932648 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:08:20 EDT
Skeptic commented on Manager Defends Retail Renting As Valuable Sales Tool

by mcjake at 03:41 PM Reply
Wow... Consumerist readers think pretty highly of themselves. I wonder how many of them are running torrents right now as they are trashing this guy.

Translation: "I don't have a logical argument but I want to say something anyway."

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http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4932563 http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4932563 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 15:45:49 EDT
Skeptic commented on Starbucks CEO Thinks Pesky "Laws" Don't Apply To His Company @00447447:

Sorry, the court's got this one right, and obviously so based on the statute. What you are disagreeing with is the state law, not the court.

As for being "at will," all employees in California, even salaried ones, are at will employees, i.e., you can fire them when ever you like for any reason that is not illegally discriminatory. The only exception are people who negotiate a written contract with specific agreements to what what the company may fire them for--and such contracts are nothing to do with whether you are salaried vs. hourly.

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http://consumerist.com/373524/starbucks-ceo-thinks-pesky-laws-dont-apply-to-his-company#c4932309 http://consumerist.com/373524/starbucks-ceo-thinks-pesky-laws-dont-apply-to-his-company#c4932309 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:48:42 EDT
Skeptic commented on Manager Defends Retail Renting As Valuable Sales Tool "Binaryslyder at 01:25 PM Reply
@Skeptic: Don't restocking fee's counteract that? If not, what are they for?"

Yes. Restocking fees are, in large part, a reaction to scummy "retail renters." They are an example of how retail renting hurts honest customers, who now have to pay a restocking fee for legitimate returns.

If you need to rent something, then RENT IT, don't pretend to buy it and return it, costing real customers real money in the form of higher prices, restocking fees and stricter return policies for legitimate returns. Yeah, renting is expensive. That's the amount you are stealing by "retail renting."

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http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4932274 http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4932274 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 14:41:50 EDT
Skeptic commented on Manager Defends Retail Renting As Valuable Sales Tool BTW. To point out the obvious, retail renters are selfish, greedy scum who raise prices for honest people with legitimate returns.

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http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4931853 http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4931853 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:22:25 EDT
Skeptic commented on Manager Defends Retail Renting As Valuable Sales Tool "by Binaryslyder at 12:56 PM Reply
@ClayS: I disagree. From where I see it, its being a thrifty customer."

If you are "retail renting" then you aren't a customer at all. Retail renting is the practice of making a sham purchase for the sole purpose of using the product then returning it for a full refund--in lieu of paying a rental fee from a store that rents things.

Retail renting is completly un-related to legitimate returns, or even questionable returns like losiek's. Retail renting greedy and selfish and is done by people who don't want to bear the actual cost but instead pass the depreciation of turning a new item into a used one back to the store.

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http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4931840 http://consumerist.com/373724/manager-defends-retail-renting-as-valuable-sales-tool#c4931840 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:18:50 EDT
Skeptic commented on Starbucks CEO Thinks Pesky "Laws" Don't Apply To His Company @Falconfire:

by Falconfire at 05:52 PM on 03/28/08 Reply
Its a clear case of California doesnt know how the system works and wrote a blanket law with no clue behind it. This is after all coming from the same state who outlawed the terms Slave and Master as they pertain to hard drives despite the fact those terms had been in place for over 25+ years at that point.

BS, California based hard drive maker Seagate still uses "master" and "slave."

[seagate.custhelp.com]

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http://consumerist.com/373524/starbucks-ceo-thinks-pesky-laws-dont-apply-to-his-company#c4930061 http://consumerist.com/373524/starbucks-ceo-thinks-pesky-laws-dont-apply-to-his-company#c4930061 Sat, 29 Mar 2008 03:03:54 EDT