Wow. I thought he was going to hiss and sputter...but he actually pretty well owned the dude.

But are they DANCEABLE??? Is what I want to know..

@Stealth43: In some ways he has, but his experts continue to be people who have a huge financial stake in the outcome of this "hoax" mainly they have made millions of dollars fooling people.

If he where to bring in independent audio experts with absolutly no financial stake in the Audiophile community, THEN we can talk, but until then its a pissing contest.

Not to mention their CEO likes to keep pointing out there is a lot of science behind these cables, which may be true, but the fact remains that they are playing with audible ranges impossible to hear, and thus moot in the contexts of this contest. Randi's whole point is to point that fact out, that no matter how much crap you do to these cables, anything you would gain from them over oxygen free run of the mill 10 buck Radiosmack cables would be in a inaudible range.

And interesting he pointed out RFI in his story, since any documented information I have found relating to problems of RFI and audio cables have come from.... you guess it audiophile sites with a vested interest in making people believe there is a problem.

You know, if these people really thought that Randi was a hoax, there would be a very simple way to prove it, and to really "own" him.

Take him up on the offer.

Seriously. Accept Randi's challenge, and document the hell out of it. Record every phone call, save every email. And, if / when Randi backs out, makes unreasonable claims, or just gets difficult, post it all.

Instead, this just sounds like more of the same type of thing that the 'psychics' claim.

"The negative energies from Randi keep my abilities from working."
"I am not allowed to profit from my abilities."
"I don't need a million dollars."
"He would just keep changing the rules, so I am not going to try."

I know that if I had something that I thought would get me his million dollars, I would go for it. Being able to embarrass somebody who I thought was a fraud, as well as thousands who believe in him, would just be an added bonus.

If your cables are really the bee's knees, why not submit to the test? You can show me all sorts of electrical readings from the cables themselves, but if people can't tell the difference with their ears you're selling snake oil.

I give Blake credit for trying to back himself up, but saying "so-and-so said this on a forum" isn't exactly a watertight support for an argument.

Put up or shut up, Pear Cable.

Put up or shut up is exactly what I was thinking as well.

BATTLE
(clap clap)
MODO
(clap clap)

How can a "hoax" have "official rules"?

I'm guessing that like all psychics, they balk at not being able to control the environment.

...did Mr. Blake actually write "High School eductated"?...lordy, no wonder he doesn't want to submit to any "challenges" -- he sounds intellectually overchallenged as it is...regardless, the REAL reason the guy doesn't want to respond to Randi's challenge is SIMPLY that his overpriced cables REALLY AREN'T any better than any others.

This guy is actually quoting "Amateur Radio Relay League".Also, One must be able to "demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability". Sound like a job for T.A.P.S. I bet they could use the one mil.

When the price of audio cables goes beyond $50, the bullshit alarm goes off. All the charts in the world mean nothing when the human ear is listening. If a scam artist is trying to sell you some audio cables for the price of a small car and you fall for it, you deserve to be taken.
If one is truly willing to spend that much money on quality sound, then no recording could never be good enough: you should spend the money on live performances & rely on your memories.

correction: Sounds not sound. DOH

I don't believe that these cables are any better than any other cables. I don't even believe that monster cables offer any significant advantage over lamp cord that you buy at the home depot. I've heard both and I honestly can't tell any difference.

I also don't believe that this Randi guy has any intention of taking anyone up on his offer, or that he even has a million dollars to pay out if someone wins.

If the cables cost that much, imagine how much they spent on the components and speakers, and the room they go in. We're talking about a completely different dimension on a totally different planet here. There just aren't that many people in the world with that kind of money.

If this snake oil salesman Blake actually had a valid claim, he would have done the test already. Fact is he KNOWS that his cables CAN'T provide an audible difference to the human ear, so instead he puffs up, struts around and calls James Randi names.

I won't dispute that on an scope, there may be less RFI in the ripoff cables. But it won't make a damn bit of difference to the listener.

I work in the entertainment production business and deal with sound systems and real people all the time. Sound engineers often have what we call "The Producer Knob" on their consoles. This is a knob or fader that does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. But when the client or show producer walks up and complains about the sound being "too boxy" or "not danceable" you can fiddle with said non-functional knob, look them in the eye and say "How's that?" and they will say "Much better." and walk off.

It's called psychoacoustics and it's how assholes like Blake get rich.

my favorite part was when he totally kept trying to talk about randi's education since, you know, "high school educated" means moron. no high school educated people have done anything worthwhile [www.microsoft.com]! i mean, i have no problems with blake trying to defend his company, but at least take the high road and defend the products and not personally attack your detractors. classy dude, but you'd expect no less from some shill trying to sell $7250 speaker cables. Oh, America!

I use to work at an audio store and we conducted our own tests. There is definitely a sound quality difference (mainly the low end) when using smaller gauge speaker wire. I firmly believe that it mainly comes down to the gauge of the wire, any other wire features that they promote is beyond the human ears abilities.

@Deejayqueue

The JREF keeps their million dollar prize money in an account with Goldman Sachs. This comes from the rules page:
One million dollars in negotiable bonds is held by an investment firm in New York, in the "James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account" as surety for the prize funds. Validation of this account and its current status may be obtained by contacting the Foundation by telephone, fax, or e-mail.

The JREF may not have been around as long as psychics and cancer-curing speaker cables, but the prize is there, ready to be paid out. The Foundation has also run preliminary tests on dozens, if not hundreds of applicants and none have passed. How surprising.

I wonder if the "High School eductated James Randi" would have known how to spell independent.

One hoaxer calls the other one out.

There's a sucker born every minute as the saying goes.

Calling the magician high-school educated pretty much proves this guy isn't legitimate either. I've known plenty of PHDs who couldn't plug in an Ethernet cable.

As in the lottery, these speaker cables are a tax on the gullible. Regardless of whether the challenge is a hoax or not.

@FALCONFIRE "If he where to bring in independent audio experts with absolutly no financial stake in the Audiophile community, THEN we can talk, but until then its a pissing contest."

That is a very good point. Giz, now that you have contacts at both Monster and Pear, its time to arrange a smackdown. No financial stakes, only bragging rights. No press people, only audiophile enthusiasts. Do it!

"So, at the end of the day we have claims made by a high school educated retired magician, which are refuted by independent studies and publications conducted by experts."

I would simply like to point out that "ad hominem" attacks like this are a classic example of misdirecting the argument from the data (a flaw in rational argument). Maybe the wording isn't appropriate given the reference to the paranormal, but if this guy believes in the quality of his cables he should work out a new written challenge and submit to the harsh mistress of unbiased blind testing. Until then all he has is advertising and marketing, which are the polar opposites of scientific testing.

-yawn-

Another charlatan afraid to take Randi up on his challenge, spouting nonsense about how devious and unqualified Randi is. Big surprise. All these audiophile nuts sound like broken 400-lb. $50k record players. Played through $7k "danceable" cables.

"High School educated..."

It's one thing to call a (assumed) bluff, it's another to be a complete ass about it.

I had to read through a lot of scientific mumbo-jumbo to tell you that my sixth grade education can tell me if Def Leppard sounds kick ass or not through some speaker wires.

You know, I don't like being in the position of defending Pear, but he made what appears to be a number of important points in his message:

1. that Pear Cable and others have posted lab results showing the differing frequency response of their product (something Randi addressed, I believe, in his initial post);

2. that the owner of Pear Cable claims that Randi is lying about statements made by Atkinson;

3. that the rules of the contest bar entry to would-be participants unless they are "part of the media," which seems an odd requirement.

High School eductated James Randi

Wow! Way to play the man rather than the ball.

Well who cars what the Amateur Radio Relay League...WTF cares. Lets get some real minds on this.

I say lets submit it to the AES (Audio Engineers Society) or Alma (Loudspeaker Manufacturing Association) or EIA. or IEEE. Any of these are legit and professional and well trained. And all of these are going to shoot you down on these BS cables.

Instead this Fucktard is gonna claim that the ARRL a bunch of nobodies who arent ENGINEERS or even really that knowledgeable about AUDIO and Acoustics.

Get real. The offer is Real. Either put up or shut up. Oh and picking on James Randi for his formal school training is rather stupid. Hes bested a lot smarter people than this Adam fucktard....who is selling SNAKE OIL!!

(Alma Member, AES Member....happy to point out that Adam is full of shit!)

@Stealth43: Is that what you think just happened? Wow. I've got a parcel of land on the moon that I'd like to sell you, CHEAP. Seriously, people like you gave Bush a second term. Cripes.

"Hey all, this guy's a fraud. I'm going to quote some clearly unrelated part of his challenge text out of context to my advantage, then I'm going to give you some unsubstantiated quotes, mention the words science and objective, give you a link that doesn't work, and reference people on forums who quite likely have the same I.P. address as I do! Hooray! I'm full of piss and win!"

This whole story is a dream come true for Pear. Would anyone have even cared about this brand if this hadn't happened? There are already a bunch of established cable brands out there aside from Montster, like Cardas, Audioquest, XLO, Transparent, Tara Labs, Nordost just to name a few and now Pear will probably end up being mentioned in the same breath because of this whole stupid story.

That Adam Blake dude is named by the medias. Why doesn't HE take the challenge?

Randi just doesn't want to deal with all the little snacks out there that just want their 30 seconds of fame. Of course, when the challenge is done they all say the contest was rigged... Because they can't accept they are not the real thing. It hurts their egos and they wanna justify themselves so they can continue fooling gullible foos'.

Also: PHD does not equal logical. Randi has about 549 more times common sense than some PHD fools in truthology out there. Randi is a pro magician, which means he's trained to smell the bull out there. Don't try to fool the man - he sees what you're doing. It's his JOB to fool people.

Take Randi for an old senile and you'll regret it.

@Falconfire: Definitely, I agree 100%. I'm just commenting from a debaters standpoint. He did a good job of shifting the focus onto the other dood, and discrediting him.

Honestly, the real way to tell is double blind tests. A lot of these so called audiophiles are idiots with money to get taken from them...a chump is born every minute.

That said, there is a certain quality level that must be reached before the difference becomes un-noticeable to human ears. You and I can both obviously tell the difference between 10 dollar headphones and 75 dollar ones, but once you reach a certain point it becomes indistiguishable...I guess where that point exists is what is so heavily debated.

I personally dig shielded cabling for my speakers, not because I think it will give me greater dynamic range or (insert audiophile mumbo-jumbo here), but because I fully recognise the effects of having rats nests of power cords and video cords, and whatever cords behind ones entertainment console will cause noticeable distortion, and you dont have to be an audio snob to notice that.

Shielded 12 guage floats my boat, but I'd say do what sounds right for you. Lotsa love to monoprice and BJC

@Pope John Peeps II: First of all you idiot, you don't know me, so dont be coming at me like that.

Seriously, people like you gave Bush a second term. Cripes.

Excuse me? Go F*** yourself

You obviously have no understanding of debate technique.

As for that parcel, I've got a big package with your chin's name on it.

Of course there's a difference: about $7,235.

Pear Cables: the choice of the High School educated who somehow stumbled into money.

@Pope John Peeps II: I seriously cant comprehend how people like you got commenting privleges in the first place. People are just trying to have a friendly discussion, and your schmuck self manages to turn it both ad hominem AND political, in one post.

Burn in hell

Battlemodo. Lam can get a reference setup from Monster. Have Monster put up a pair of lower end cables of the same gauge, and let Lam be the ears. Nobody needs Randi to be involved. Just need somebody to pony up for the Pear cables (because you know that they won't give up a pair for review to someone who might call shenanigans).

@strider_mt2k: I'm gonna second Battle Modo!

Adam Blake: Send BLam the cables. Let BLam put them to the test. Double Blind. 30+ person sample. Put up or Shut UP!

By the way, the rules that Blake references in his opening paragraph are for the JREF One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, which is for people to try and prove they have paranormal ability. It does not say anything about the speaker cable challenge.

[www.randi.org]

So not only is Blake a name-calling shyster, he's also apparently too dim to read and comprehend the JREF website.

I would so like to see these myths about hi-end audio gear put to a test - maybe Myth Busters could step in and do it for us.

This guy is a complete joker. But hey, you only need a few dim-wits to fall for the cables and you've made a hefty profit.

IF there is any difference in the audio signal the human ear would not be able to tell the difference. These things are pure snake oil. Period.

@av8thor:
Precisely. This guy is too much of a moron to realise he was reading the rules for a completely different challenge.

I am going to prove, scientifically, that my car can get 30mpg. But oh no! The rules for the Tour de France say that I can't use a car!

Randi's whole shtick is to debunk the paranormal and supernatural. He's been doing the million dollar challenge for years, and has started with psychics like his long time mortal enemy Sylvia Brown (who has yet to take him up on his challenge.)

He is an ex-magician turned skeptic,-which as consumers we can appreciate - but perhaps he needs to stay away from calling out tech as paranormal lest he really knows what he's talking about.

@Anjow: Well now you're just making his point for him.

It's well known that the rules of the Tour de France are a hoax.

Well, when he uses Ad Hominem attacks on Randi like "high school educated" and "retired magician" you know he's basically apoplectic with indignant rage. Basically all it does is make him sound like the moron.

@DeeJayQueue: While I'll certainly agree that Monster Cable is overpriced, I have to heartily disagree with you on lamp cord. I worked in home electronics repair while I was in college, and I have seem many, many, many stereo receivers ruined because the owner insisted on using crappy lamp cord as speaker wire.

Whether or not you are able to hear any difference between lamp cord and speaker cable, the fact is that lamp cable is not designed for use as speaker cable and is unsuitable for that task. It is designed to carry power only, and from sources that are designed to deal with excessive resistance if necessary. Your receiver is designed to work with speaker cable, with minimal resistance.

Do yourself and your electronics a favor. If you're going to be a tightwad, at least spring for something that is sold as speaker cable. Using lamp cable is a great way to ruin your electronics and look like a complete idiot while doing so.

@cybermatt85: Noo! Blake referenced the wrong challenge from the JREF site. The rules of the real contest have nothing to do with the paranormal. But you know what? Somebody (perhaps his buddy, Don) should recontact Blake and let him know he was referencing an entirely different challenge (And if he does already know of his boo-boo, he's probably banging his head on the wall right now...)

Wa ha ha ha ha...

I told you people that the there are people who CAN distinguish the difference between a monster cable and the $7k one. That's why this Randi would NOT let Pear do the challenge because he knows that he would loose the $1 million.

Like I posted in the earlier thread, 80% - 90% of the people have average to poor hearing so obviously can tell the difference but for those people who have flat line hearing 20hz- 18khz will be able to tell. It's like letting people compare one cola to the next. Some people have piss poor sense of taste and smell while others can pick one from another 100% of the time. I for one, can pick Evian water from any other 100% of the time.

I just came here to say exactly what AV8THOR just said. He's reading the wrong rules. But since I've been beaten to the punch, I'll say something else.

Blake just doesn't get Randi's point. It doesn't matter if Pear cables can handle certain freqencies better if those frequencies are indetectable to the human ear. I'm not buying cables for my dog, I'm buying them for me.

correction - "obviously can't tell the difference"

@cybermatt85: Problem is he is not calling out the tech, he is calling out the people selling the tech as being the solution to a problem that cant possibly have one (mainly that while yes these wires might be godly, your ears will fail you well before you could even begin to possibly hear a difference in these wires over much cheaper ones)

Basically he is saying that there is no point in spending 7 grand on wires, if the human ear cant possibly tell the difference between these and others regardless of what audiophiles say. He has a very valid point as people like myself who have proven to hear nuances and tones most cant hear (as well as I am perfect pitched) cant hear the crap these audiophiles are trying to spew. Its not possible as the human ear just CANT hear it.

And thats a scientifically proven fact that people like Blake gloss over in the pursuit of ripping people off.

@Bender: Well that's exactly the point isn't it? If your hearing stinks then you should stick to the monster wire. But for those who have "golden ears" and who have money and a $25K+ stereo, it makes a huge difference.

Yeah, Randi will own this guy. "The 1m challenge is a hoax" is the very same bullshit that dowsers and psychics use to avoid taking a double-blind test. It's predictable, and there's absolutely no way Pear will ever concede to the challenge. He KNOWS he will fail.

@ChopSue-Me: No there are not people who can. This is a certifiable fact. You might get a few lucky guesses, and MAYBE a one in a million guy who has hearing that makes Superman jealous... but the people this joker are selling to are just as much in your crew of couldnt tell shit from a melted chocolate bar as the people with absolute crap hearing.

@cybermatt85:

Well, I think you are right, that he probably is not as up on the science of speaker cables as maybe the folks in this company are, but thats not his area of expertise it would seem.

What he seems to be good at is spotting snake oil salesman, whether they are selling psychic ability, or speaker cables.