You snooze you lose. A product that should have come out over a year ago. Then, perhaps, they would have been able to put up a fight.

The important question is... What 20 movies?

This will only be successful if it gets support from (major) movie studios. I'm all for them kicking Blu-Ray and HD-DVD's ass but if they don't got the money and the movie studio support they ain't going nowhere with this format.

Though I doubt this player will succeed, I still wish it good luck.

There are a couple of ways this could go. If they play their cards right, they could actually become the dominant mass-market High-def disc format, and relegate HD DVD and Blu-ray to a premium, videophile niche.

For that to happen, they'd have to move fast OR they'd have to be consistent.

They'd need to expand their library to hundreds of Hollywood flicks, drop the price of their players by half, and market the bejeezus out of it, all in time for this Christmas, because next Christmas will be too late for them to take this approach and have any hope of success against HD DVD or Blu-ray.

The other approach they could take is simply being consistent. Don't blow their wad making a big splash this holiday, just do enough to get their word out among the early adopters, and keep plugging away with a steady stream of good, new movies month after month. They don't have to be Hollywood movies, they just have to be movies worth buying.

Given that they are using dirt-cheap red-laser DVDs and pricing the players at $200, I think they can make more than enough money per sale to keep going at this for a very, very long time, which they'll need to if they go this route.

2 words - too late!

Players for HDDVD and Blu-Ray are already dropping and the media producers are already getting settled in with these formats. There just isn't room for a new entry unless they can pull off something much better than this.

200 bucks for an HD player that's on its bleeding edge? wow. If memory serves me correctly, BD and HDDVD were at least 4x that on release.

Another thing to consider: since this is apparently using revamped DVD tech, perhaps disc production methods are way cheaper than BD/HDDVD (as i know thats one of the huge issues with BD)

One word "PORNORAMA".. This is a market that they can really dominate.. Need to get thier word out beyond us tech guys, just get a plug on Sterns show and the adult magazines and by the time christmas comes around they will out sell Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sales combined for the year.

Throw a hard drive in that baby and put that ethernet to some good use V.O.D(video on demand) Porn.

The other over priced players are moving way too slow in this market.

I have no interest in purchasing a Hi-Def format player that doesn't double as a media storage device and game console. Even if it's only 150 bucks. I don't have room for every new thing that comes out, just every popular new thing.

cool. I didn't really have a problem with all the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD postings like lots of people did, but this could be the start of a very painful headache. I have no reasoning, but I'd like to think we're better off leaving red lasers alone now and sticking with the blue. At least there's the LG dual format players for B-RAY and HD-DVD. The use of a red laser isolates it and that could easily be a crucial breaking point with lots of consumers. I have high hopes but I doubt the three companies will be mentioned in the same sentance any time soon.

Disc media is dead. People want on demand digital media. A company that is innovating ways to widen bandwidth over the air and though wires has a brighter future than a company making solid state digital media.

Microsoft should launch a cheap living room/home theather box for under $200 with a big hard (500GB) drive and built in wi-fi that can download HD movies and stuff off of the Xbox Live Marketplace. They need to add movies you can keep not just rent though. That would signal an end to disc media.

so basically there will be no *clear* winner of this gen of medium, so they should probably just start working on the next 1 and all help each other out instead of screwing us over with 3 different formats and silly prices etc.

@Joseph:

There is no substitute for cheap media, discs will take a LONG time to die out.

Hollywood? If they can get the BOLLYWOOD studios to sign, they're made.

@Joseph:
People who? Music is one thing, but I don't know a single person (not that I know a huge cross section of people) that want to buy digitally distributed movies. Can you cite anything?

The Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD war has been going on with no *real* changes for too long now. It's still all just stupid squabbling and trying to prove dominance with manipulated stats. Studios aren't even really "settled in" to these formats as MANGAGURU said -- it was just a few weeks ago that 2 studios effectively dumped BluRay and went exclusively HD-DVD. How much confidence does that instill in consumers thinking about choosing either side?...all it takes is a little payola to their favorite movie studio dump one format or the other. How about this, you rich, greedy, format-promoting, Hollywood/"Consumer" Electronics jerks: instead of giving each other $150,000,000 to pick a side, why not offer 1 Million $150 instant-rebates on your stupid players...you know, so consumers can see a benefit, and maybe actually create a real 1-sidedness to this format war! "Free movies" with the purchase of a player aren't the same as real money, especially when those movies must be chosen off a limited list (even if that "limit" is the whopping 200 movies your little format has out right now. Keep in mind, since most of your releases are catalog titles, I probably own them on DVD right now anyway *if* I want them).

Neither side is doing anything convincing *for consumers* to try to win. There is no end in sight to this stupid war.

So...it's about time a 3rd party comes in and mixes things up. I hope they have a huge debut that forces the other two camps to re-think themselves. I want to see some *real* aggression in the marketplace so somebody actually wins *soon* -- until the final outcome is clear, I'm not investing anything in the overpriced players on the market today.

Hey Hollywood/Electronics manufacturers: Call me (and most of America) back when I can get a full-featured player (of any of these 3 formats, or some combo) for under $100, and it's not at risk of being beaten by a competing format until whenever the next-next generation comes out. Until then, please keep in mind that DVD players sell for under $30...and they've already got every movie that I might want to rent/buy.

@EQC: Until then, please keep in mind that DVD players sell for under $30...and they've already got every movie that I might want to rent/buy.

That's the point Sony and Microsoft are desperately trying to unprove.

Think of this media has India's HD media format, while China has their new CH-DVD, this will be India's equivalent since obviously they are marketing it with a selection of Bollywood titles.

While the "Western" world carries on dithering about on Blu Ray and HD-DVD, while China and India have a set one standard format and thier population is Billions, so can easily support localised players and media, HD VMD will be good for niche films maybe, Indie movies and Bollywood, its different and welcome from me atleast.

See, I can see myself taking a $150 dollar chance on a new format. But as Enzo said, "WHICH movies are they releasing for it?" If they can lock down a very nice selection, they still have a chance at killing the more expensive BD and HD-DVD formats. Hell,the fact that the other two formats are already out, could actually work even better for them, since those owners already have a tastes for HD.

@Joseph: Though I can see the reasoning behind wanting downloadable movies, it's still too soon for it. The problem? Regional consistency. There are still MANY places (in the U.S.) that still have yet to get broadband services. And which manufacturer in the their right mind would want to release a content-based product that has a limit to the amount of consumers? Hell, I live in L.A., and even my broadband stinks, due to the traffic congestion. Until they can get HD download times down to just a few minutes (nowhere near that right now), it would be bad move. But it'll come in time. My bets are (grudgingly) on Apple.

@Bloody_Sorcerer: HD-DVD costs are already in line with DVD. BD is having issues but that's only on 50GB media. Most movies don't need dual layer and the 25gb single layer discs are yielding fine.

This is NOTHING new... the format has been getting kicked around for years now. The discs aren't going to have any more capacity than standard DVDs and video encoding will be WMVHD or something similar. You CAN do decent HD on a DVD-9, I have a ton of German WMVHD releases that prove it. The Italian Job and We Were Soldiers look particularly good even at the ~9Mbps rate.

I can't understand how BluRay could possibly have problems with yield. If all these reports on the web that say so are accurate, then BluRay must have screwed up something major.

Why? As I understand it, BluRay disks were out in Japan years ago -- except, they lived inside a little plastic cartridge to keep the surface from getting scratched. So, they added the extra hard coatings to the BluRay disk standard to solve the scratching issue, and eliminated the need for the cartridge. But it doesn't sound like the actual disk itself changed much, if at all... So, with the previous years in Japan for development/practice, why are they having problems now? Why are BluRay players more expensive when much of the technology was probably used in Japan previously?

Give this thing DivX certification for high def so i can burn and watch high def movies and this will be a winner.

These discs work by using red laser and multiple layers, it would be an amzing feat if they could put a normal dvd on the first 2 layers and a high def version on layers 3 and 4.. A normal dvd player capable of reading layer 1 and 2 could see the film in standard def, and these players could see the 1080p version on the later layers.

I am not sure if that would technically be possible, but it would be a winner for me, to be able to start buying films i can watch in standard def on my dvd player, and high def on one of these players. I would LOVE that.

It would also make a lot of people change over i think, as more and more of their dvd collection read "also contains high def version"

@Joseph
That's all well and good, but Comcast would just cancel my service for going over the limit on my unlimited account.

This product is idiotic and absolutely pointless. It has been vaporware for years and the only thing NME has put out is press releases. I'll believe it is really shipping when some average consumer has one in their hands. Even then it is still pointless - it will not have any studio support. Both sides have too much vested in BD and HD DVD, and this format is inferior without support for the newer audio codecs.

Few enough people have an HD set...even fewer probably have a 5.1 audio setup (after all, that new HDTV came with real nifty built-in speakers!). Somehow, I doubt advanced lossless 7.1 audio is a feature the bulk of the market is looking for...

For people who don't have an HDTV and may or may not have a 5.1 setup, but still care about 7.1 audio, they have to (1) upgrade to HDDVD/BluRay, (2) Buy an HDTV, and (3) Buy a new 7.1 setup. For 99% of folks on the market, so much upgrading all at once just makes the price too big...and the first sacrifice somebody would likely be willing to make is the 7.1 audio.

Hard core early adopters will typically splash out da cash for breaking technology. They are only 20% of any fledgling customer base, but they will evangelize to the world. No one is really preaching bout Blu cuz of the price, it's a joke. HD VMD look like they're targeting that segment which Blu Ray and HDDVD aren't, and they made it affordable by not having to fit a double-headed drive in their player. Hmmm Red Laser HD, true rocket science. We continue to scratch our bald headz as to why the big boys hadn't thought of this before attempting to push everyone onto a whole new platform!

HD VMD may be late into the game, but HD is still only 1% of the Vid market and they're speaking to the customer... that's u and me, remember!

Their too late, Bluray is the winner!

@aussie: @aussie: If I had a dollar for every moron who proclaimed the format war over, I'd own Bill Gates' ass and Steve Jobs' kids.

@EQC: I disagree with respect to the sound system argument. 5.1 HTIBs have been priced below $500 since the PS2 hit the market. Surround sound upgrading is not holding back uptake of either format.

HD-DVD... Blu-Ray... HD VMD... HD Content-on-demand...

It's hard to see a winner. I personally think it's just going to stay like this and technology will just pass these guys by while they still continue to fight it out.

To answer the q

OK, it spaz'd out on me...

To answer the question most people are asking, the 20 titles are mostly associated with Mel Gibson's Icon Studios. The two samples they showed off as Cedia were "We Were Soldiers" and "Apocalypto".

Anyone see where this is going? Gibson is throwing his weight behind this format... maybe this will end up being the "Christian" alternative to the evil Jewish-Hollywood backed format war... (end anti-Mel Gibson rant).

Finally! I've been spouting the benefits of this tech for a couple of years now. Let's try and sort some of these questions out...

@Hvedhrungr: It is my understanding that this is already available in India and China and they already have Bollywood on line. Bollywood movies alone with India and China's populations would be able to keep these guys in business for a very, very long time. I'm glad that they decided to move it into the "little" markets of Europe and the US for us.

@Buford T. Justice: They are supposed to be much larger than current DVD9 disks. DVD9 is 8.5GB and these are supposed to have up to 5x that currently. Not only that they have the ability to just add more layers. They talk of having 100GB disks. Sure that's still in the development phase BUT that's with current red laser. When blue laser gets cheap enough they can easily switch to that and up the capacity even further. But if you've seen good looking movies that have been encoded that's another added bonus. ;)

@prodigal_son: If you had one of these players your DVD player would be obsolete. This can play both formats so all your "old" DVD's would be playable and the "new" VMD's would give you the benefit of higher resolution. As for containing both versions don't they currently do that with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD? Shouldn't be too hard for VMD to replicate.

In regards to the format war in general...people like to point out the numbers of BluRay vs. HD-DVD and who they think is winning and that VMD is too late. But what you rarely hear is that regular old DVD is still crushing both of them. VMD is trying to get people to replace their players with an inexpensive alternative that will leave them the option of playing their old DVD's and playing the new hi-def stuff when available. For that it is not too late as BluRay and HD DVD still only command and very small, very specialized segment of the market. Still time for this to make an impact. Especially if I can get a VMD burner for my PC for mass storage/backup, movie burning, etc.

OMG-PONIES: I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I wasn't saying "nobody's buying HD because they don't want to buy speakers"...I was actually responding to MEGAZONE's comment that "this format is inferior without support for the newer audio codecs."

Technically, MEGAZONE's assertion is correct that this format is "inferior," but my point was that almost nobody would care about the audio-codec inferiority.

And, while I do agree with you that 5.1 HTIB's have been available and cheap for quite some time now, I don't think *most* people care enough to even buy one of those for a DVD setup -- While I and a few of my friends have them, none of my parents, aunts, uncles, in-laws, or grandparents have anything more than a stereo audio setup. And even most of my mid-20's peers just use their TV speakers.

So, my point was that very very few people are going to care whether a new format has support for new high-quality 7.1 audio codecs -- because most people are either happy with their TV speakers, happy with some external stereo speakers, or happy with their 5.1 setups (all of which should still work with all of the new HD formats). The bulk of the market isn't going to look at this new player and say "What? No 7.1 Auido? No Deal!"

So, my whole point was that somebody buying a new HD player probably won't care too much about audio codecs. My assertion is that they will first spend their money on the HDTV, then they'll spend their money on the HD-disk-player, and then, they might just stop because it's much cheaper and easier to stick with speakers they already have than to buy a 7.1 setup, wire it all up, and convince the wife that all those speakers precariously placed around the room have some benefit that makes them worth the extra eyesore + effort + $xxx.

@EQC:
"Few enough people have an HD set"
About 28 percent of U.S. households now have an HD television set, according to new findings by the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA). The CEA set the number of HDTVs in the United States at 35 million. More than half of those sets were in the big-screen category, 40 inches or larger

Ummm...yes COOLTIDBITS, that's my point. Relative to SD TV's, there are very few HDTV's out there. Less than 1/3 of households has even a single HDTV...whereas just about every household probably has at least 2 or 3 SDTV's that get used regularly.

...my whole point wasn't an argument about HDTVs anyway -- I like HD, and it is indeed the way of the future and soon there will be one in every home... My point was about the Audio Codecs and how very very few people will care about 7.1 audio. See my above comments for the detailed explanation on that...

I think its too late, and pointless. I was reading the specs, and this thing is pretty much a four-layer DVD, with 20GB(not 5x DVD-9, my friends!). I don't think its going to fit everything properly, especially because it won't be able to expand to many more layers. Lets say this thing magically gets 8 layers on it. We now have only 40 GB. Now take HD-DVD to 3 layers, and you have 51 GB. Take the same disc to 8 layers, and you have the potential for over 130GB(Due to the new 17GB per layer advancement). Take blu-ray there, and you have 200GB. It can't compete. Its basically the endpoint of DVD fighting against the beginning of the next gen discs. This thing would have been successful two years ago, when the major studios weren't all signed up. I have no real preference whether HD-DVD or Blu-ray wins, but I don't want this thing winning; or we'll have to do this idiocy all over again.

@prodigal_son:

I don't think that's possible. You see, this is merely a red laser four layered DVD(Yes, I simplified it!), so using layers one and 2 for a normal would knock down its HD capacity to 10 GB. Maybe if it used layer one for SD, and left 15, but its still a juggle. I can't see any major studio picking it, as they care mostly about DRM, and the larger the size, the harder to rip. Not that I care, because we all know that both formats have already been ripped reliably, but you'll never convince the studios of that.

They forget to mention that those players can read wmv-hd wich mean that you can buy amost every IMAX movies right now.

This tech is late out of the gate, but *could* end up the dark horse if played right (ie sneaky and dirty). Since it's using old red laser tech, it's definitely a good candidate for a data storage medium (provided they release some eaqually affordable RW drives in good order along with the console players). Because red laser tech is sooooo standard these days a ~9GB DL DVD that used to sell for over $20 is what, a buck ? buck fifty ? Stacked up against $25 BR or HD blanks a $3 - $5 20GB to 40GB VMD sounds mighty tasty for data.

But think of the real untapped potential here. PIRACY. Not that I endorse it, but just think, the media is cheaper, the hardware is cheaper, but the capabilities are nearly on par with competeing hi-def disc technologies. Remember how it was feasible to copy a DVD movie to a VCD way before it was common place to have all the parts in place for real DVD copying ? It was cheaper and easier, but you lost some quality. Same thing with BR/HD to VMD...but no quality loss!

At least it *could* work out that way. Probably won't, but I like to root for the underdog (and I love good price/performance values in electronics) so here's hopin' win/lose/draw that VMD makes some interesting plays to spice up the stagnating hi-def war.