Gizmodo
For a while, Gizmodo had been wondering if the $17K Red On 4K camcorder was genuine or just another piece of vaporware. That's why we're glad to see the camera at NAB 07 in front of our faces, with support from Apple, Peter Jackson, and others. We had a chance to talk with Red One "Leader of the Rebellion" Ted Schilowitz, allowing him to calm our worries about the historically problematic ever-shifting shipping target dates and 4k support that may or may not be available at launch. [Ed.- While I stand by Stephen's statement and reporting 100%, Ted just wrote in to promise 4k Support out the gate. Minor miscommunication aside, this is exciting confirmation, and we're glad for it.]
[UPDATE: We apologize for confusing Ted's words — His two statements, one on 4k and one on what features would ship, were separate, not serially linked. ]
We had a chance to see three working Red One cameras in the company booth. One was connected to a 720p monitor to show the live output. The other two had working LCD viewfinders as well as film-style video eyepiece finders that potential fan boys could get all touchy-feely with, and there were plenty of those wonks getting their mitts on the camera.
With all the talk of 4K, we were very surprised the live video was only being shown on a 720p monitor. The response? There aren't any 4K monitors to show the full output. [Ed.- What about those Sony 4k Projectors below?]
According to Schilowitz the first batch of cameras that go out may indeed be lacking certain features and functions, but he wouldn't comment on what features those might be.
When asked if 4K works, he said yes, but didn't know if 4K would be available in the first cameras. [Ed.- As above, I stand by Stephen's statement and reporting 100%. But Ted now promises 4k Support out the gate. Minor miscommunication aside, this is exciting confirmation.][UPDATE: We apologize for confusing Ted's words — His two statements, one on 4k and one on what features would ship, were separate, not serially linked. ]
Will early adopters be screwed? Schilowitz did say that when the camera starts shipping, owners can follow two option paths; take the camera as-is and get a free upgrade when all of the features have been enabled, or simply wait until the features are ready and pick up the camera then. If they can upgrade a camera from non 4k to 4k for free, more power to em.
When asked when the camera would ship, Schilowitz emphasized the company's spin on shipping. In his words, Red is an engineering company that would rather rely on "target dates" than ship dates. When asked the "target date," he responded the Red One camera has a target range between the end of April and the middle part of May of 2007.
Even if the company makes this target, those eager to purchase one may still have to wait as the company has been able to convince 1500 individuals and companies to plunk down a hefty down payment to reserve one of these beauties.
In an effort to put to rest the doubt that this camera is actually working or simply a pyramid scheme to bilk old ladies from their fortune, Jim Jannard ushered visitors into a small movie theatre to show them an 11-minute film shot entirely with two Red One alpha prototypes he named "Boris" and "Natasha".
Sure anyone can crank out 11 minutes of beauty shots and call it a film, but it is an entirely different matter when that 11-minute film is an original narrative piece, written and directed by Peter Jackson. Yes, that Peter Jackson. Jackson invited the Red crew to Masterton, New Zealand for a two day shoot to capture a WWI story involving a doughboy on the ground, an ace pilot, a picture of a loved one, a teddy bear, and those accursed Nazis.
We were able to learn the two cameras only had Run/Stop triggers, 180-degree shutters running at 24fps, recorded to a Red Drive at 27Mbps and encoded in Red Raw. Not a lot of fancy schmancy at all. The short was projected using Sony's 4K projector, but as previously announced, Red is working on its own line of 4K projectors and monitors. Jackson decided to skip using the Red lenses in favor of the Cooke S4 24-90mm lenses with which he was more familiar.
This film was full of action and drama as only Jackson can deliver, and throughout the piece, we watched closely for telltale signs of artifacting, blown highlights, or false colors. While a lot of the story takes place on bare dirt, scenes in the air presented a full range of colors that proved this camera can capture some very dynamic images.
We noticed some jumpiness during some of the high-action fast-moving shots, but didn't know if that was a fault of the camera, the digital projection, or our hypersensitivity to digital projection. Regardless, those instances were very few, and after, we had a chance to talk for a moment with two cinematographers sitting next to us who were accustomed to shooting on Viper and Genesis cameras. They were both impressed with the results and had no complaints with the technology.
So for now, the Red One camera has moved from vaporware to reality, but with the "target date" still a month off and the long line for delivery, you aren't going to be able to pick one up anytime soon, let alone at the local Best Buy. But good tech always trickles down, and we're moving in the right direction with these cameras.
Comments
I always shop for $174k cameras at Best Buy...
BTW, were there Nazis in WWI?
Crazy pants all the time get some! Of course there were Nazis during the Great War. They just weren't Nazis yet. For example, Adolf Hitler was simply a corporal in the Austrian Bavarian Infantry.
Um, it's $17k (still not Best Buy material), not 174k... 4k is their format.
Uh, 17K not 174K and yes WW1 was rife with Nazi Daddies.
Um, no, 4k is the (mindblowingly amazing) resolution that their cameras will begin with*, but I'm sure only a smidgling of the true capabilities of the elusive Mysterium sensor. Red Raw is their format. kthxbye.
*so I presume. The talk of the town was the mysterium's ability to shoot at a resolution just shy of 6k for quite a while, was it not?
That's the first time I've seen it look like a camera and not an Ion Cannon...
Their approach and product reminds me of when NewTek started working on the Video Toaster (Commodore Amiga). It was another crazy video concept to completely undercut the professional competition by tens of thousands of dollars, and it really changed the video industry overnight. Here's hope this has the same result.
i don't know mcqueen. it looks like the sort of camera that could fold into one, using it's optics to collimate the beam.
you could probably record your victims getting vapourized. how meta!
what is that super cool spider looking thing with blades on it? its in the 4th or 5th picture...
"Um, no, 4k is the (mindblowingly amazing) resolution that their cameras will begin with*, but I'm sure only a smidgling of the true capabilities of the elusive Mysterium sensor. Red Raw is their format. kthxbye."
Technically, it's Red Raw 4k, but people are mostly referring to their format/codec as simply "4k". Most often people mean the format when saying "4k" rather than the resolution. As in, FCS2 can manipulate "4k" but (for the time being) will only extract 1k or 2k, not RAW.
funny thing, the $17,500 is only for the camera body, just that lil square box that says "RED."
the setup featured in the main picture would probably run around $30,000!
it costs an extra $1650 just to get the batteries and charger!
i can't wait till paris hilton gets one of these bad boys......
If she's as unmotivated as in her earlier movies, I don't care.
And, you know, of course there are still Nazis in Germany. They just refuse to beeing called "Nazis" anymore.Gizmodo, you're messing up here. There story isn't the RED ONE camera, its the 4k projectors and monitors. If RED Cinema actually has real 4K displays of their own make, THAT IS HUGE. As far as I know, the Sony SRX projector is the only thing in the world capable of that res. Yes, there's some specialty medical displays that can do that or higher, but they don't have nearly the same color depth.
If your agents are at NAB right now, I demand that they get off their butts and get us the details on those displays!
I work for a small video production company and we are one of the 1500 to have a down payment on the camera. Needless to say if this delivers what it is promising we are going to be pumped.
mutantshark: And what's your point? All cameras are sold in this fashion. That's still ridiculously inexpensive compared to other options.
hey, how come gizmodo doesn't have the "reply to this post" link like kotaku and some of the other gawker sites have? anyways...
mutantshark
the setup featured in the main picture would probably run around $30,000!
oh darn, so it's only $70,000 less than comperable cameras, not $83,000 less.
Like TurboFool said, that's how it's done in the pro (not prosumer) market. SD video cameras, sans lenses, batteries, etc, can go for upwards of $50,000. Ikegami makes HD cameras in the $200k to $300k+ range.
my point? to just let people know that 17k won't buy them whats in the picture. did i ever say it was more expensive than other setups? no, but maybe my exclamation point was too much, my 'bad.' get your snoody head out of your arse.
I went to NAB and stood in line for the booth. I have to say, the projected footage looked good, like decent HD/2K, not like 4K, not like film. Some shots had good detail, however, also some overly soft images. Dynamic range was maybe 8-stops. Why would the brown soldier's uniform have highlight clipping? I've seen much better dynamic range from an Sony PDW-F350 ($25K, HD camera).
Red claims to outperform professional cameras. Right now every thing I've seen shot on the Viper (hello Zodiac and Collateral!) looked WAY better. I would be interested to see a side by side F900/RED shoot out. That would have made the booth interesting.
HOWEVER
The hands on portion of the booth was a lot of smoke and mirrors. Yes, there was a camera with a "live output", but it was on a consumer plasma screen and was full of noise. It just looked bad, really, really bad. Also you couldn't touch that camera. Hell, you couldn't get within 3'.
EVERY OTHER RED CAMERA was NON-FUNCTIONING! I know, I went to the other 3 and tried to adjust any/every setting- and what surprise surprise, nothing, no recording and there was no menus to adjust. If you just want to look through the eyepiece and declare "it works" that's fine, but it's totally naive.
Unfortunately bloggers seems to take Red at their word. And the fanboys think that because they got a viewfinder to work- that means the camera works... NO it doesn't. The two prototype cameras (Boris and Natasha) were under glass and had exactly one frame rate (24fps) and only one way to record (REDCODE).
Red seemed paranoid. They had at least FOUR thugs/body guards in the booth. They just wandered around and checked peoples badges. Red's technical reps (who all look like 20-year old extras from "The OC") didn't like being asked to make the camera perform, each one gave a lame excuse, or tried to show off some accessory.
The whole time I was there, I kept thinking where's the Peter Jackson testimonial? There isn't one. Why is the music for the "camera test" so loud? To make you pay more attention to your ears than the images? Really, I don't care if Red paid Peter Jackson or Peter Frampton to shoot with the prototype cameras, if the thing doesn't perform, the company is going to have a Red face.
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