Gizmodo
With more details emerging about the Xbox Elite, we're finding that the provided HDMI isn't quite the Holy Grail—at least according to one AVS forums Microsoft "insider."
While you already know that the new Xbox Elite will feature HDMI like its PS3 counterpart has since launch, the Elite's HDMI will be slightly gimped, running at the 1.2 standard instead of the 1.3. What does this mean for you? Neither of the newest Lossless formats (Dolby Digital+ nor True HD) can be passed through its HDMI (not that you'd notice in most TV audio setups).
This is not to say I wouldn't still trade my 20GB model for the Elite—I'd just be a bit less pleased with the whole experience. On the plus side, a Spring update should bring 1080p IRE-level adjustments to the VGA port on all 360 models.
AVS Forums Thread [via loot ninja]
Comments
I still don't get all the hub bub about this, they're basically charging you out the ass for a 120gig drive... whuppty shit, and an HDMI connector... and its not even 1.3... I mean fuck... you guys got on Sony for not including the fucking cable, and microsofts leavin out the god damn HD drive altogether... where are the people flipping shit about this, I mean fuck... this is ricockulous... talk about a black tax, this is the black tax that woulda caused the g'damn boston tea party.
alright, people act like you cant get surround. There's still TOSlink.
The 360 already supports 1080p with VGA (and component). Problem is that VGA sucks because it screws with your TV's color settings, and not many TVs support 1080p over component. My old $400 Insignia HDTV did 1080p over component...but then it broke a month after warranty.
I prefer to use the VGA cable that works with the original 360.
@djdare
I don't get all the hub bub you're making about this hub bub. Loosen up a little, bud.
And, no, I don't own an Xbox.
I'm plenty loose, I'm just sayin PS3 debuts at $500 w/ a blu ray drive, HDMI, wireless controller, harddrive, all that jazz, and it's a rip off, this thing comes along, it's black, and has a bigger harddrive, and everyone's gaga for it... Just sayin i'm tired of the PS3 sucks 360 rulez reporting that is rampant.
Ah, but unless I'm mistaken, there's no physical difference between HDMI 1.2 and 1.3.
If that's the case, then it could be upgraded to 1.3 with a simple firmware update via Xbox Live.
It also debuted with crappy games and future exclusives that its losing by the assload.
The Elite is crap. I'm pretty sure that until it gets lowered to a price point that's closer to the current price of the Premium model, it won't sell as well. That having been said, it's only 80 bucks more, 20 bucks less than the low end PS3 and has the feature set of that model sans the HD drive. It also has an HD 100 GB larger than the base PS3's (say 'who cares, PS3 can use any HDD' all you want, doesn't change the fact that you have to buy that HDD)
This really isn't going to change much of anything - it doesn't affect the whole 'PS3 is overpriced and not worth the money!' debate at all because the Premium is still available at 100 bucks less. This is just for people who want to play 360 games on their HDMI compatible TVs (which is a small percentage of people to begin with) The only thing this does is allow MS to further their claim that they provide a much wider range of choices than Sony does without forcing consumers to pay for components they don't want.
And I'm not saying PS3 sucks. I'm saying it's not awesome, which was what I was promised it would be. And as of right now and the near future, it's not worth the money.
HDMI Cable - $10
120GB SATA 2.5" laptop HDD - $78 (+shipping):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168221...
That's over $90 worth of value for $80 more than the Premium system.
The Elite is a good deal in my book if you don't currently own an Xbox 360. If you have a Premium just stick with that. I'm not upgrading from my Premium. But people who are buying Xbox 360 and don't currently own one should get the Elite. For $80 more its highly worth it if you plan to download lots of game demos, TV shows, movies, trailers, etc. I have an HD episode of South Park that takes up 1GB by itself. And most demos are 1GB +/-. That all adds up.
Guys, i'm not a sound system technican,i could go somewhere wrong, but i have to ask you, what Dolby Digital+ or True HD means. I found that Digital+ means 13 channel surround and True HD means 14 channel surround. How many people got 1080p right now? When where 1080p TV's released? And when will any human-buyable recievers available with 13-14 seperate channels? Are youre rooms ready for this much speakers? :) Special rooms?
Sound quality, sample rate, for True HD and Digital+ is still 96kHz max, so you still wont cry when you listen to violin play as you would do that listening to a DVD-Audio disc, 192kHz sample rate, good amp, right stereo speakers and cables.
The only real reason Microsoft is releasing this "Elite" XBox is clear. They fear the PS3.
The PS3 is black. So is the XBox "elite"
The PS3 has an "elite" pricetag. (XBox wants to be special, too.)
The PS3 has full HDMI support... XBox "elite" tries, but fails.
The PS3 has free online service... does the "elite" come with free service as well?
The PS3 runs nice and quiet, how about the "Elite?" Have they been able to reduce the noise the Xsux360 puts out with this latest release?
Sure, XBox360 has atleast 360 more games than the PS3... but can it cure cancer? I don't think so.
Can it stream photo's, videos, MP3's and video games to a Microsoft portable gaming system? Oh... no, it can't. Microsoft doesn't have a portable gaming system.
Does it do your HD set justice by playing flawless looking BluRay's with digital precision? Nope, can't do that either.
Is it cheaper? Oh, yeah... it's cheaper. I wonder why.
p.s. Have any of you PS3 owners seen the opening cover adjacent to the PS3's hard drive? That sucker is removeable, which means when Sony comes out with a bigger hard drive, you won't need to buy an entirely new system. What a concept.
Lesson of the day:
"You get what you pay for."
Here we go.
@DNA and all you others:
The real reason why they are releasing the Xbox 360 Elite that way, is probaly because the next gen Xbox will be super better, and include all the capabilities of HDMI and other great features. This is probaly the last 360 they'll make in production, so they're at least giving 360 a boost before they move on. It's just version 2, before they move on to the next one. You might say that the next gen Xbox is already the PS3 if you like to compare it the way DNA says it, but Microsoft can be surprising sometimes. The 360 Elite is just a small step towards the next gen Xbox.
Does the elite360 still do component too? My current HDTV doesn't have HDMI, but I prefer the black color.
You must be smoking crack if you think Microsoft fears Sony. Wait until the latest game console market share numbers are released. Sony is going to shit a PS3.
have any of you considered this were yet another april fools prank post?
As long as people are debating/arguing about the superiority of Xbox360 or PS3, both Sony and Microsoft are happy. Their first priority is to get people to believe that videogame systems are necessary, not optional. Once videogame systems become as popular as DVD players, then Sony and Microsoft can chop the market share whichever way they want.
I went with the Xbox 360 because the games look better. Supposedly PS3 is a more powerful computer, but from what I've seen at the display models in stores the Xbox 360 games look a lot better. Maybe it's just me, but I trust my eyes.
@DeathKat
That's what I was thinking...
@dna: "p.s. Have any of you PS3 owners seen the opening cover adjacent to the PS3's hard drive? That sucker is removeable, which means when Sony comes out with a bigger hard drive, you won't need to buy an entirely new system. What a concept."
Um... You can replace the Xbox HDD too...
dna, you have any numbers on sales? I would think Microsoft is not in fear, but Sony instead.
I never understood why anyone cared about HDMI 1.3, or why they would want to output TrueHD or DD+.
All HD disc players have to be able to decode these fancy audio standards (required for interactive feature support) - and, once decoded, output them over the 8 channels of uncompressed digital 192KHz/24bit audio that ordinary old HDMI 1.0 supports. So what exactly is the point of passing the encoded audio over HDMI and having your receiver decode it instead? Being all-digital, you don't lose any quality.
ROFL @ DeathKat.
Why didn't Microsoft make XBOX360s with removable HDDs? That would have pushed me to buy one and stick a 500gig in there somewhere..
Ah well.. <3 PC
Ironically, TrueHD and DD+ are optional (and therefore poorly supported) on Blu-Ray, but are mandatory (and therefore everywhere) on HD-DVD.
So the 360's got TrueHD and DD+ on the disks, and no way to output it, while the PS3 has the ability to output TrueHD and DD+, but no disks to provide it!
I just don't get the xbox 360 fanboys... they probably use Firefox because they 'hate Microsoft'... but then gladly pay them $10/month like Lemmings...
I don't own a 360 or PS3... yet. However, the whole competition between the "Next Gen" systems isn't really that important (to me at least). Honestly, I don't know in detail about the differences in HMDI, VGA, and all those other types. What I do know is that, in the end they all pretty much look damn good to me. Compared to original systems these are amazing machines. Personally, I would suggest people to buy the system they think they would have the most fun with. I'm most likely going to go with the 360 because of the games. I love playing the Halo series, Forza, Fifa, and a whole other bunch of games. Yeah, I just think people should get the system that will be most fun for them.
wow dna a little research before posting that would have stopped you from looking like a jackass after the first few lines... There are just so many things wrong with your post.
Nice pile of FUD. Find an a display that does 48bit color or a person that can see it. Then complain. Becuase that's all thats 1.3 gets you. As to the audio portion, I doubt many people have a rig that can truely take advantage it and those that do won't be using game consoles.
This is a complete non-issue. Games don't output TrueHD/DTS-MA, and probably never will.
HD-DVD doesn't output TrueHD/DTS-MA, and probably never will. (Yes, discs are encoded in TrueHD, but the player MUST have a TrueHD decoder in it, so that it can do mixing of multiple audio streams (menu sounds, commentary). And once the player's decoded it, it can send it as uncompressed multi-channel digital audio over any version of HDMI without any degradation at all. There's no reason at all for it to recompress to TrueHD at that point.)
HDMI 1.3 on the 360 -- or on the PS3 -- adds nothing but a marketing point.
@wolters: If people invest significant money in a platform, they want that platform to succeed & thrive, which means lots of other people buying it too. Hence all the desperate talk from both sides trying to convince fence-sitters (and to justify their own purchase to themselves). You see it wherever incompatible platforms compete in the market (e.g. OS wars, Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD etc).
Hopefully the rise of multiplatform games will help reduce this. Maybe an ISO-standard console gaming OS would help too, game vendors would love it, though I can't see hardware vendors agreeing.
I just gained a lot of respect for dna. Thankyou for putting it in perspective! :) (im being serious, in case you thought i was being sarcastic). I seriously just changed my mind about microsoft vs sony
@ dna (Ignore this if you're just joking around and aren't really this dense)
Or they could just be taking feed back from their customers and updating the system to reflect what people may want.. Like they've done from the start?
Great observation.. So is every other console that has been made.. It's a great color choice. PS3 isn't the first console to be black..
It's (360) still cheaper than a PS3.
Is "Full HDMI" the new "Full HD" now? Ne who, between the two, big deal.
Yea, Xbox Live is free for everyone.. and if you feel like playing against people and other stuff, you can pay the $4 a month extra, it's worth it.
I'll give you that, The 360 can be a bit loud at times, but it isn't constant and every 360 doesn't sound like a "jet". If you've ever used a PC with a decent CD/DVD drive then it isn't anything new.
The PS3 hasn't cured anything yet. So big deal, it can run folding@home, you could do that way before the PS3 could, and why would you potentially diminish the life span of your console?
Good job their Capitan obvious.. but to be fair you can stream all that stuff from your computer to your 360.. enjoying your customizable soundtracks yet?
No, but why would you want it to? If I want to check out HD movies I can buy the HD-DVD player or download HD content from the Xbox Marketplace, or actually get a PS3 (Which I will once the price goes down 360+Wii+PS3= Winner). Again, Choice is a good thing.
Because there isn't a forced HD media player built in.
What a concept indeed..A little research could have stopped you from looking like a jackass right about now.
Amen to that.
You know both consoles are great in different things, but right now what I really want is cake. Not just any cake, no, that would be too easy. I want Red Velvet Cake with vanilla icing and a middle layer of cheescake. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Elite is a waste without WiFi and HD-DVD, and now it doesn't support 1.3 spec. (also supporting 1.2 makes it incompatible for a future upgrade to 1.3 via firmware).
Really, MS should have just stuck with the $400 Premium pack only, and left out the $480 Elite just to keep a price buffer between the PS3.
" I'm most likely going to go with the 360 because of the games. I love playing the Halo series, Forza, Fifa, and a whole other bunch of games. Yeah, I just think people should get the system that will be most fun for them."
Then you better go with PS2. It has much more games then 360. Sure, it inferior to 360. But 360 also inferior to PS3. Sony will finish of Xbox the same way they kill HD-DVD.
Peoples just refuse to understand, 30+gigs GTA4 for PS3 will be different from 8 gigs GTA4 for 360. Same will apply to mostly all future HD games. And there is no way MS XBL will update your "RIP" with 25gig extra content. Even for extra $$. Think about it.
Sorry for my English.
@ dna
Also about PS3 "Curing cancer" don't forget about this:
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm
Getting back on topic, mkozlows is correct- this is a complete non-issue. Games don't support either of those audio formats, so this is only applicable to the (optional) HD-DVD add-on. And since HD-DVD standard requires decoders on-board, the xbox will decode those audio streams and pass them over HDMI in uncompressed audio - all you're doing is decoding earlier, and for a digital format this is completely ok, no quality loss whatsoever.
Rather than forcing you to buy a bunch of goodies you may, but probably don't, need (blu-ray, hdmi, etc) ala PS3, this move keeps prices down and again allows the consumer choice - have a killer setup? Get the elite and HD-DVD add on or a PS3. If not, you can still game without going broke with a 360 core. Sounds good to me.
well, the new elite looks good and everything, but it isn't all that special. it's only for people that are hardcore about thier systems and all that crap. but when it comes to the fffrrriiiiggiiinn awwwwsome hardrive, it is for people that use Marketplace alot. :)me
there is a physical difference for the comment above. 24 pins vs 18? it's backwards compatible somewhat. the extra pins to align. the only reason for 1.3 is really for audiophiles who are looking to run everything through their receivers.
Frankly, I'd be pretty miffed if I were the HD-DVD crew. MS could move quite a few discs if they'd actually include drive in this unit. Take a slight hit on the disc drive, sure... but isn't MS part of the HD-DVD crew?
Well look at it this way, there are two types of Next-Gen game consoles out there- Those that make toast, and those that don't. Personally, I like my toast on the light side, half with strawberry jam, and half with grape jelly. Now what? I heard the Wii-volution will do that. I shall wait for it patiently. lmfao.
@Zach Coggin, You cannot upgrade a HDMI 1.2 to HDMI 1.3 via a firmware upgrade via XBox Live, that is total falsehood. They are totally different chipsets.
I'm also sick of everyone bashing the PS3, but love everything the 360 does, even when Microsoft continually screw their users over, time and time again.
Microsoft are obviously fearing the onslaught of the PS3, but the Elite, with it's elite pricetag, and not very elite features (90nm process, same as regular overheating 360, HDMI 1.2 and a small propiterry 120GB HDD) is not going to help.
I'm still not seeing this PS3 "onslaught" fanboys keep yappin about.. Kinda like the whole "Just give it [PS3] a year and then you'll see!" rubbish.
Why would anyone fear the PS3? Right now the only thing its good for is curing cancer.
Lets see that bitch cure aids. Not even it's 23 million processors can cure aids.
Oh, and change that God damn controller while you're at it Sony.
Well, "if games dont support it now", is getting kinda tired. Then we can just keep on playing NES games until we grow grey hairs and die!
word of the day is Progression which is something MS has been doing half baked lately.
I smell Johnson & Johnson and baby wipes here. Someone better get the warm milk.
@waterdrop: of course you can find higher prices at retail. a Seagate HDD isn't proprietary (like the XB HDD) so it can cost whatever.
This is all just FUD... Judd's comment is 100% correct. Everyone should just take a moment to read the hdmi entry on wikipedia where there is a nice bullet point list of the features supported for each version. You will quickly see that even HDMI 1.0 supported full 1080p video with 24bit color and uncompressed 8 channel audio; both of which are the absolute maximum that could be expected and utilized. The other features added on after the 1.0 version are all just frosting and fluff that add practically no value.
@ EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO SAYS THAT HDMI 1.3 ISN'T A BIG DEAL
It's a joke that the hdmi isn't 1.3 spec. It's the same crap over on the engadget posts about this topic. "You don't need 1.3, no one has the equipment to run it, it's only for audiophiles." THATS EXACTLY THE POINT!!! It's for audiophiles who want cutting edge stuff. Don't tell me that i should just go get and hd-a2. There's no need. This is a great chance If you think that hdmi 1.3 isn't important, THAN THE ELITE IS NOT FOR YOU!!! If you are that person that says "hey its a video game system, who cares" THE ELITE IS NOT FOR YOU. Be happy with your premium unless you really think that black plastic covers are worth 480 bucks. No none of the games have it, thats because its for the hd dvd movies, of which i have plenty. Yes i want my future 2000 dollar denon receiver handling my audio, yes i want 36 or 48 bit color depth possibilities when, 6 months or a year from now, i purchase a display that has that ability. The big thing to realize is not whether or not you think its stupid that M$ didn't include it, but that there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't have. There would have been almost no more manufacturing cost and the whole idea of the word "elite" is that its supposed to be the best. 9 OUT OF 10 PEOPLE THAT KEEP COMMENTING ON HOW THIS DOESN'T MATTER ARE THE SAME 90 PERCENT OF THE MARKETSHARE THAT M$ IS AIMING FOR W/ THE CORE AND PREMIUM, THIS ISN'T FOR YOU SO STOP COMMENTING!!! This whole thing just comes off as lazy in my opinion and, as i said on engadget, the big compelling reason for buying this system, other than black plastic, is now gone.
@chelsel:
"I just don't get the xbox 360 fanboys... they probably use Firefox because they 'hate Microsoft'... but then gladly pay them $10/month like Lemmings..."
$50 / 13 months = $3.85 per month for Xbox Live Gold. That's roughly the price of one medium Creamice at Starbucks. That's less than a value meal at McDonalds. I can handle that kind of monthly payment.
On the subject of the Elite; It's a better deal than a Premium IMO, but I already have a 360 and the Elite doesn't give me enough reason to upgrade.
I don't even care about the lack of HD-DVD. I'm still waiting for a winner to the format war.
I think Microsoft is feeling a little inadequate and they feel the need to try and "1up" their competition. The sad thing is, they can't. It's still inferior to the PS3. And I'm sorry but $179.99 for a proprietary HDD is an absolute RIP-OFF when you can buy any old 2.5 SATA drive for less than HALF the price and stick it in the PS3. Not only that, it doesn't come with Wi-Fi or an HD-DVD drive. And all you 360 fanboys who think it was a bad thing to put a Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 are seriously deluded. And just because you guys think that having the "option" to buy the other accessories, (which to equal the PS3 would be $479+$199+$99 = $777!) is better then only paying $600 for the whole package are just brainwashed. I don't even have a PS3, I own a 360 and have had to return it twice. I'm so fed up with this "Hex-Box", (which really does feel like a curse when it's constantly freezing and overheating all the time) and with M$ always talking trash about the PS3 like an immature 10 year old it makes you wonder who's really afraid...
1.2 - 1.3 it doesn't matter if they don't fix a fundamental flaw that is inherent within the XBOX 360 and that the noise this thing makes!
When I play resistance I can hear sound via HDMI (HDCP) 1.3 because my console isn't the main noise in the room!
I'm surprised M$ didn't go the full hog and call it the XBOX360 1337 to make the kids happy!
I'm also surprised more people don't feel like M$ has given them the big reach around with all this HDMI and IPTV bull shit anyway!
All I can say is enjoy......sucker
You say "suckers" now until $ony decides to do the same thing 8 months down the line.
all i can say is that ps3 may have the blue ray drive and xbox doesnt have an hd drive, its is because sony loses money when they sell there console with blue ray drives so cheap. xbox360 are actually making profit when they sell systems. so why would they want to put themselves at a financial lose just to include the unnecessary drive. you can watch hd movies and programs off xbox live which is easy and profitable, the fact that they even make hd players for 200 dollars isnt even that profitable.
I've got to say, there is a good argument for any viewpoint that you have on the new SKU. Here's my 2 cents:
The HDD alone is going to cost $179. Considering that fact, I can buy the $479 system, transfer all of my crap from the 20Gb to the 120GB, then sell the Premium for ~$250 - $300. Now, say I only aet $250 out of it....I'm buying a $179 HDD and spending another $50 on the HDMI upgrade....I can deal with that. Count me in on this simply because I want the lager drive. All of the rest, I don't care. HDMI will be nice, but, even MS guys are saying that it's a minimal upgrade and not knocking socks off of anyone (check the Ozzymandias blog).