It has very little to do with Apple and more to do with the state of affairs in Latin America- no CE chains, Socialist governments trying to stay insulated from "devils" (ala Hugo Chavez) in the US, and normal business practices of retailer that are down there to not pay their bills in a timely manner. Don't blame Apple, blame the culture.

Maybe his Steveness is trying to get back some of the billions of dollars that the illegal immigrant population is sending out of this country.

I wouldn't set up shop in Venezuela either. The way things are going, everything is going to be nationalized in a few years. Enjoy your dictatorship, comrades!

This is certainly not true. At least in Mexico the prices are very similar to those in the US (taxes included) and are everywhere. What Mexicans can't understand is why the iTunes store is not open here.
P.S. The article mentions Argentina and Brazil, and the photo depicts a Mexican revolutionary. ??

This is certainly not true. At least in Mexico the prices are very similar to those in the US (taxes included) and are everywhere. What Mexicans can't understand is why the iTunes store is not open here.
P.S. The article mentions Argentina and Brazil, and the photo depicts a Mexican revolutionary. ??

I'm sure Jobs is just as sad as they are that he can't have an iPod in every pocket.

It is called iPod diplomacy.

I agree with Jag42... I recently was on vacation in Brazil and noticed that all electronics from US brands are terribly overpriced. A fellow traveller, one who had more experience with South America, informed me that import taxes make the purchase of such items prohibitively expensive for locals -- on purpose, in an attempt to support native brands. It seems that this extends beyond electronics, as well.. companies like Nestle have resorted to opening factories on the continent to provide their goods without the import tariffs.

I won't say that Jobs loves South America, but it seems that the price difference Apple fanboys are being hit with in this part of the world is not his doing.

If there's so few Mac/iWhatever products down there, I might just move there to get away from the domestic avalanche of iPod crap.

This is true with many items. Ever wonder why so many Latin American tourists in Miami are going home with electronics?

If you travel to places like Brazil, you can make a few hundred bucks by bringing a new laptop and reselling it there, thus saving someone the massive taxes there. Brazilians are quite into this scheme and will suggest it faster than you can say mule. Put a couple of pictures of your kids on the screensaver first, they say.

If there's so few Mac/iWhatever products down there, I might just move there to get away from the domestic avalanche of iPod crap.

I'm sure there would be no shortage of volunteers to help you pack.

When did "Latin America" become one word?

Hmmm....

Isn't this the same thing that was done in the segregation years. If black people wanted to buy homes, the price became ridiculously expensive.

Looks like Brown people will never be a part of the Apple elite.

Things are still pretty crappy north of your border as well - no movies or TV shows on iTunes for another year and no iPhone. I'd understand if Canada was a small market, but economically, it's essentially like ignoring California.

Oh, also - yes, always blame the culture. It's 'culture' that's always to blame. Oh god.

dear apple,

ive always hated you. and i probably always will.

-nova

@nytimer:
Weird that your name is NY Timer... never would have guessed based on that statement...

I am living in Peru, doing volunteer development work I can definitely attest to the sad state of affairs in terms of availability/support/pricing for apple products down here. An 80gb ipod can cost as much as $800 down here. However, I must admit that at least for countries like Peru, there would not be too much of a market for apple products even if they were the same price they are in the states....there just aren't enough people who can afford to buy mp3 players, and higher end computing products down here. Argentina, Chile, Venezuela, and Brazil are probably a different story given they have some more wealth, but for much of latin america I think the market is probably pretty small...

"Maybe his Steveness is trying to get back some of the billions of dollars that the illegal immigrant population is sending out of this country."

yes - the 2.50 cents/hr they export doing work most americans or the beggars on the streets wouldn't even touch really makes an impact on this economy. the fact that they work for so cheap allows the producer to sell your veggies at the price you're buying them at - else you'd be paying 3x the price if he'd have to pay full wages with insurance, health benefits, and luxury jacht pensions unions demand... you're reaping the benefits they offer without even realizing. What S. America is doing is what US should be doing with WalMart garbage people keep buying. The reason why the market crashed yesterday was because China OWNS most of US's debt and when their market goes - so does US's... why? one of the reasons is the lack of import-tarrifs making chinese-"goods" cheaper than american-made stuff. It's a catch 22 and we're creating our own problems without realizing. "Oh, but it's 50 cents cheaper at Waldemort!" yes, and mommy and daddy are laid off because everyone else thinks so also... Screw RIAA, boycot Waldemort!

@navsimpson:
I'm not saying it's all culture, but in this case it is- being from Ecuador, I know what it's like down there and it's not as conducive to capitalism as it is here in the US.

I just wanted to say that picture is hilarious.

Also that Steve Jobs is just doing whats best for Apple's bottom line. It's nothing against any race, there are just a lot of costs for entering the South American market. So stop giving him crap, it's just business.

It may just be the cost of infrastructure as the reason he doesn't want to deal with Latin America. To set up a total infrastructure for a limited (?) market that (like China) pirates almost all of their software would be a money losing adventure. If he lets the gray market deal with it, he doesn't have to deal with it.

Perhaps I missed something in the translation, but could someone explain to me how the various Latin-Governments' taxes and levees are the fault of Apple?

Steve "Jalapeno" Jobs

Hah.. that's funny shite right there.

"a 2 gigabyte iPod nano costs $328 in Brazil and $323 in Argentina, compared to $149 here. Things get even worse after the jump."

...and $149 for a 2GB player here is a bargain? ;^)

Here in Chile you can find iPods in every big retail stores. There's a very good support service and we have the latest models a few weeks from US. Macbooks, iMacs, Mac pros and the entire line of products are here within the same month. Prices are of course more expensive because we're so far. But a lot of accesories are cheaper because of TLCs with Asian countries were they are manufactured.

I love the level of stereotyping and rhetoric in this thread!! Anyone can regirgitate a tired argument they heard on the news and feel proud of themselves for sounding clever. How about adding some insight or deeper level of understanding in the comments section?

@nytimer - Are you an idiot, or do you just enjoy making logicless inflamatory remarks? Do you really think that in a world economy a company the size of Apple decided not to sell in South America becuase of the "Browns"?

@zarchitect - Your argument would hold more water if it didn't sound like you just pulled numbers out of your butt to make a point.

@homsar - I agree that Venezuela is unstable with its inferiority complex and oil wealth, but Venezuela isn't the whole of South America.

Apple's products are luxury items. As the head of a large company, I'd have to seriously ponder the market for a product in a particular country before shelling out the costs for a distribution infrastructure. Additionally, as the article points out, taxes and tariffs can be major obstacles to importing a product.

The comments on Giz seem to be getting progressively more and more politically polarized....

@bitfactory: so mean, so unnecessary. for shame, for shame.

no me jodas tío!

Quite simple, if company A doesn't have a presence in X, Y or Z countries (it doesn't matter if it is Latin America), import companies have to deal with the state taxes on their own and they also set their own prices (often overblown because they control the market). Decades ago, it was the same deal in countries like Spain, Italy or Portugal, here in the old continent. Until you get the company in the country - so they do the massive imports and set the official prices - it's the wild west.

The result of Apple having no presence in countries like Brazil - which is a huge market -, Venezuela, Chile and Argentina - and other countries through the world - is exactly the situation described in the article. Too high prices, no technical support, consumers on their own. It's the same for other companies, like Dell, HP, Nintendo and Sony (a Mexican reader from Gizmodo Spanish points out that a Wii costs 500USD and the PS3, 1300USD, for example).

In other words: the whole point of the article is that Apple customers in these countries feel abandoned and on their own, with no local commercial or technical support from their fab company, which, for whatever reasons, prefers to ignore these markets.

The biggest impediment is taxes/tariffs/duties for electronics being imported into the majority of Latin American countries. You also have the additional cost, by law, of having to support the repair of the devices for 7 years (regardless of what the manufacturer says the warranty period is). Finally, you have to deal with devices being stolen at customs or "falling off the truck" en route.

If this is such a problem, why don't the voters in south america just vote to lower their import taxes on iPods?

Yes, Americans won't touch those jobs because you can't make a decent living anymore due to illegal immigration driving down wages. There used to be a time when American citizens could make a living doing manual labor. Don't get me wrong, it's big business in bed with the government taking advantage of these people. If they weren't all profiting then the govt would certainly want to close that huge hole of a security risk called the border. North and South. The illegal immigrant population certainly benefits too though. It's the American middle class that's paying the price. And yes, the cost of an orange may go up by stopping ILLEGAL immigration the cost of many other things such as education, health care, etc. would go down. The only thing illegal immigration has brought us is a larger gap between the rich and the poor. It's the middle class that makes America strong. Illegal immigration and Walmart are very similar problems. Importing cheap crap to sell or importing cheap labor to under cut American citizens. They're both big business profiting at the expense of the American good.

yes - the 2.50 cents/hr they export doing work most americans or the beggars on the streets wouldn't even touch really makes an impact on this economy. the fact that they work for so cheap allows the producer to sell your veggies at the price you're buying them at - else you'd be paying 3x the price if he'd have to pay full wages with insurance, health benefits, and luxury jacht pensions unions demand... you're reaping the benefits they offer without even realizing.

so from a discussion on import tax and infrastructure -- and a possible knock on His Jobness -- we're getting into a flame war on illegal emigration? Where is the ignore tag on this?

Actually, I believe Steve Jobs himself went down to the Apple South America (I think) HQ and demanded an explanation on why the prices were like that.

The guy at HQ simply replied back "You really want to know? It will take several days to explain all the taxes and other laws you have to jump through".

So it's more a regulatory thing - there are so many oddball taxes and duties that have to be paid that just keeping up with them is an exercise in futility.

Half the people posting coments here are racists, ignorant and disrespectful to other countries and cultures, shame on you Gizmodo

The vastness of ignorance is incalculable.

According to a friend in Colombia, the dearth of all Apple products in South America is primarily due to the combination of taxes and protecting smaller businesses.

Many governments view computers as luxury items that few citizens can actually afford - and to a large degree thet are correct. So the wealthy can afford to pay a premium as a "voluntary tax." Of course, this excise tax only makes it harder for the ordinary person to afford a computer, but...

And many of the S.A. governments work very hard to foster and promote small businesses. So when Apple wanted to alter its distribution to reflect the way the do it up north, they ran into a number of obstacles. A number of their partners have exclusivity agreements and protected regions, which meant Apple couldn't open up a store across the street (or on the Internet). And if they did, they'd still have to pay the partner, even if he didn't sell anything. And when you stop to consider, it was these small resellers who worked long and hard to establish Apple in these countries, and it really isn't fair that Apple now come in and put them out of business.

It's a double-edged sword. You end up paying 10% to 30% more for your Mac or iPod. On the other hand, when something goes wrong you don't end up on hold while the Customer Service rep in Bangalore transfers your call to repair center in Tegucigalpa. You call up your reseller and he sends a service tech over to fix your machine. And if your Video iPod has to go out for service they'll probably loan you a G4 they have kicking around the back room.

Or you can buy it from the Apple Store at the mall and have them tell you you have to make an appointment, even if you bought AppleCare. They'll be with you in 4 hours.

@navsimpson: I just had to look it up after that comment. It's within about 1 million, according to Google, but California actually has more people. Huh....

Why would Apple care about a market where import duties and tariffs make it impossible to compete with local manufacturers?

I'm from Argentina, down here an 80gb iPod costs u$s804, a black MacBook u$s2572...but a pair of Shure E4c in an official store cost the same u$s299 as in the US so...wtf?

grey market heaven

Never felt compelled to comment on Gizmodo but the comments here are awful, and demand some clarifications.

1. It is at least an exaggeration to state, as JAG42 does, that the "culture" is the problem, or that there is a significant socialist streak bent on nationalization of everything. Sorry, that's false. Besides Venezuela, the only other countries in that direction are Ecuador and Bolivia, very small economies.

2. iPods are leisure appliances, not essential to anyone. Even if they would cost as in the States, $150 is a month's income for many families. Only the middle classes, and then some, could actually buy those items; this means, countries like Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, are those in position to be interesting as potential markets for Apple, or any other electronics vendor.

3. Apple is upscale, so to speak. No matter how many iPod has it sold, it is still a company with large margins and interested in maintaining them. That demands a rather large piece of the pie, at least for Apple to decide that an actual presence in the market, instead of just using resellers, would be economically sensible.

4. Considering that those that are actually potential buyers of Apple's products are also people in position to travel or to have relatives and friends traveling to the USA, it is actually easier for them to buy upscale commodities like the iPod in the USA, for use in a Latin American country. That would leave those not able to travel to buy the items, and they don't have the money. Pure and simple.

5. Apple left most of Latin America when Jobs came back, as one of many cost-cutting measure. My country, Peru, had an Apple representative till 1997, but after that, only authorized resellers. If you want to buy a Mac, you have two routes: buy it yourself in the States (as I've done) or go through a local reseller, in charge of service. Either way, if a problem arises with the computer, you'll have to solve it locally, with a reseller. I've been quite lucky so far to get splendid service. Good for me, good for the reseller, good for Apple, selling the small amount of computers they are interested in selling here, and not "wasting" money with formal presence that will probably offset the situation. No Apple Store in Buenos Aires? Pity, but from Apple's perspective, it is not a market that demands such kind of presence.

Why was this article even posted? It has nothing to do with Apple.

You CAN get any iPod at similar prices in Mexico. This doesnt't hold for this part of Latin America.

My two cents:
First of all, I'm from Argentina. I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammar errors I'll probably make. Bear in mind English is not my mother tongue and I'm out of practice in that department lately.

Now that's settled, let's talk about Apple/iPods/random electronic imported stuff.

It is true that getting an ipod the completely legal way(imported by apple or one of its official distributors) is expensive. Customs tax in this country are high and are surrounded by a bunch of ugly red-tape policies that all they do is help illegal imports get their way to the market. You also have to add the seller's profit and that makes numbers grow.
Even though it is not the usual thing, it is normally cheaper (but really really complicated) to get your own stuff through internet than buying it here in stores for two reasons:
1)You might be lucky and not get robbed by customs.
2)Even if customs put their hands in your pockets, it is usually cheaper than buying it from a store.

Of course, the completely legal way of getting an iPod is not the most usual way.
Most of the iPod-selling stores sell those at prices that are closer to what you can see in USA. I can get an 80gb iPod for $400. $50 is not that much of a difference.
All this stuff is introduced to the country without paying any taxes (probably bribing a customs officer) and are sold by small stores or people around forums. The big problem with this system is warranty and support.

As the product is not introduced to the country legally, most of the companies do not provide support if it was not bought legally. The solution is generally a "no questions asked" return policy. If the product has a failure it is inmediately exchanged for another one. If they don't do this, it is easy to go the "AFIP"(the ones that collect our taxes) to make them disappear. Most seller's wouldn't risk it.

It is funny to notice that most people does not know their iPod was brought to the country without paying taxes. All they see is... Expensive vs Cheaper. The decision is obvious.
This applies to almost everything related to consumer electronics and gadgets. Truth be told, if it wasn't for dirty customs officers, most of the stuff wouldn't be seen here in the first place. Of course, it is a double-edged sword: prices are low in relation to what the official importer can achieve. This makes for less official support in the country.

Also, getting really new gadgets can be a pain in the ass, especially when it comes to hot gadgets like a Wii or a PS3 which are hard to get there in the States. Prices are quite high until everything settles down.

In conclusion:
In what relates to gadgets and stuff, it sucks to live here, but it is not as bad as it looks like. We manage to get things somehow and it could definitely be worse.

Ah, I almost forgot. One tiny detail: MacStation is the only Apple-controlled official importer and distributor, but there are some others (Like Maxim, for example) that import apple products legally through customs. MacStation is not the only way to get Apple products in a completely legal way.

mcsey is correct. Here in Chile they love the nano knock-offs (a lot). I know of one Apple store here but it is in the richest part of Santiago (in the same mall as all the other "American" stores).

The whole system here is to fleece the cunsumer. The gov't and big retail rule all. There is not even a hope of thinking about changing it either. Nobody fights for what we (in North America) take for granted.

Around here you are delighted to pay way too much for most import things. You're just happy you can get them. All the rest (return policies, discounts, accessories, etc) if you can find them, is bonus.

Actually it's not entirely Apple's fault, at least in Brazil. Here we have really heavy taxes for importing electronics to protect national industry and atract new companies because there is a "free zone" in Amazon for manufacturing plants.

@Froggy: If you're looking to have your delicate sensibilities left intact, I'm afraid you're visiting the wrong website