Like VHS v.Betamax, the winner will be determined by the format supported by the studios with the most popular movies. At this early stage, it is too close to call. It will be cheaper for the studios to exclusively produce one format, and while Blu-Ray might have an edge right now, with SONY's track record (Betamax, UMD), Blu Ray is no shoo-in.

I have a PS3 so I am rooting for BR, but there is a long road ahead. Betamax tape lasted more than 10 years (and still outsold VHS 8 years after VHS was introduced) so this format war may take a while...

It really does seem like we lose and they lose. DVD may not be better technology-wise but to consumers it still makes the most sense. And as many have said before, the jump to DVD was far greater then this. I mean, we actually got rid of rewinding and fast forwarding and most of the degradation that takes place. Now we just get a slightly better picture. If only the next step were slick cartridges without load times and less likely to get damaged and in HD(which I'm sure they thought about already) Anyways, like I annoyingly always say in my HD/BR posts, just wait until it's all downloadable and not a physical format anymore.

I have finally decided, HD-DVD for me. With all do respect to Sony, but after reading many reviews and watching 2 movies on HD-DVD then Blu-ray I have found out that the "Extra-space" Blu-ray developers are talking about is not doing anything good or special, not even a pixel of difference.

And when it comes to games, an 8 GB filled DVD-DL on the Xbox 360 has the same (if not better) quality and length of a 20+ GB filled Blu-ray disk on PS3! Can't nobody see the weired huge scale of space!?

This is based on my viewings, not only reading fanboy sites. :)

Enjoy your life guys, HD-DVD it is. (it sounds better too: HD, High Definition)

quote { He says the increased size on Blu-ray discs aren't much use (not many movies even use this space). }

well, he forgot about regular user can use those space to store data. that's 10 gig extra space he is talking about... after all disc space is still much cheaper than hard drive. and i don't want to have HD DVD player on my computer to just watch Movie and blue ray player to burn my data. so blue ray is still better than HD DVD.

@Saad Rabia: ya.. not even a pixel difference, but we can use it to store data. now on the market both blank HD DVD and Blue Ray disk are cost about 16 USD. why not get the extra 10 Gig to store your data?

more space is always better...otherwise our pc's would still 250mg of hard drive space.

buy the new samsung dual format player with the realta chip for upscaling standard DVDs. Win win and win.

Instead of paying millions to major studios to pick up their product, why not put millions into offering free players to the public. What better way to build support for your format than to build an audience - then the studios have no choice but to include your format in their offerings.

This reminds me a little of my struggle with another optical media format: DVD-R vs. DVD+R. I never have owned a DVD burner until about a month ago when I bought a MacBook Pro because the different formats were always too much of a pain to worry about, even being the tech savy person I am.

In the end if I have to choose one or the other, I'd probably go with HD-DVD because of many reasons pointed out by Paramount's CTO as well as the fact that Sony has upset me in the past by releasing propriatary media formats such as their Memory Stick, Memory Stuck Duo, etc. I'd rather support a standard that is NOT sony's.

porn was the big difference in the VHS v Beta wars.....based on that it has to be HD DVD.....

Does the Xbox 360 HD drive have all those internet features that the HD-DVD players do? I'm looking to go the cheapest route to HD movies and HD-DVD is the way to go, $130 (eBay) for an HD-DVD add on is just a great price.

What they're not telling you is that unit cost to manufacture HD-DVDs is up to five times cheaper than Blu-Ray.
So the profit margins are a lot bigger - i.e. studios make more money selling HD-DVDs.

100,000 HD-DVDs costs $50,000 to manufacture
100,000 Blu-Ray discs costs $250,000 to manufacture

Now, these figures don't encompass production costs like video encoding, disc authoring, marketing, etc., but from what I've heard, those costs are nearly equal for both formats.

Seems like a pretty simple choice to me...

@DEADPLASMACELL:

The Xbox 360 HD DVD drive implements the HD DVD spec. That is to say, it supports HDi interactive features, networking, persistant storage requirements, etc.

It is a great value, but you may want to consider a Toshiba stand alone player if TrueHD audio is important to you. The Xbox 360 gives you the following audio options:
o Digital Stereo (2 channel PCM)
o Dolby Digital 5.1
o DTS 5.1
o WMA Pro

Listen up everyone...

WE ALL LOST with this pissing contest. Why?

Hardware manufacturers:
Because consumes are hesitant to buy any of the two standards for fear of choosing the wrong one.

Movie studios:
Because putting out movies cost money and they are hesistant to choose a standard for fear that is the wrong one. Using both standards is too costly. Loosing current revenue because people don't want to buy an HD movie that is obsolete in 2 years and have to buy it again for new hardware.
(insert DRM load of crap here in the meantime..)

Consumers:
Because we cannot enjoy movies in all their pixel glory. And don't know what the future of HD will be...

Best of all...
By the time the pissing contest is over, at least a few more years, we will be downloading IPTV movies, having direct download of HD movies for permanent store in our drives , etc...
So HD-DVD or BR will be like using cassette tapes today... a technology which it's time has passed.

There's a very little window of opportunity to grab a market and supply "media and hardware" that people are willing to invest in before an NEW cheaper alternative is available.

As far as I'm concern... both DVD camps have lost.

The future is direct download. Heck, Movie theaters are doing it already TODAY and obsoleting film altogether by going to digital projectors.

both formats have been or will be cracked. Then you'll have your HD films on your hard drive, too- no need to rebuy for a new format. To enjoy now, buy a dual format player.

I thnk that we are all missing something here. The Blu-ray camp claims all the ps3's as blu-ray players right? So when you look at it you have install base of 4.5 millon players + or - (ps3 and standalone) and lets say 500,000 hd dvd players + or - (360 add on and standalone) and blu-ray is only out selling hd dvd by 2 to 1?

I also think that if the hd dvd camp were to begin phasing out dvd releases in favor of combo discs the war would be over mighty quick. Imagine if Transformers came out only on HD DVD/DVD combo disc, people without hd dvd players would still buy it. Then a little later they would start to think how they already have all of these hd dvd discs might as well buy a hd dvd player.

@DeadPlasmaCell: Yes, all Internet Connectivity features work with the 360 HD-DVD drive as well. I have a Toshiba A2 and a copy of Blood Diamond, and the Toshiba is my primary player. I tossed the Blood Diamond disc in my 360 just to test the Internet Connectivity features, and they worked identical to how they functioned in my Toshiba.

Also, the plus side of the 360 HD-DVD drive is that it's a standard USB HD-DVD drive that works on your PC as well.

@Saad Rabia:

Holy uninformed batman!

You're making conclusions based on how many movie releases? Were DVD's content as much in the beggining as it is now? Do you not think there will be more content that are added to BR's in the future?

The same goes with your PS3 example. There is a year's worth of development for the 360 compared to the PS3. I guarantee you in 1-2 years you will see the advantage of Blu-ray on a PS3. Hell, the limitations in disc size is the reason why some games likely won't be coming to the 360.

With the right software it will. Don't remember but I think its one of Toshiba's drivers.

This will all be decided by which ever format has a player that comes out at the magic number.... $200. Once that has been reached it will all be over.

@ssjmichael: Holy Speculating Batman!

@tsolfan:

Sweetness

In the "which will win" category between HD or Blu-Ray I'd have to say... neither one.

With technolgies like broadband, downloads, video-on-demand, AppleTV, and cable HDTV, shiny bit of plastic are less and less relevant, and by the time one format "wins" no one will care.

All the format wars will have done is make the alternatives look better and better...

sony screwed BD when they started denying porn manufacturers... and when they decided to have a billion point releases 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 god knows a standard is supposed to be a standard from day 1 especially when we're talking MEDIA!

And im sorry to say toshiba is alot closer to hitting the 200$ standalone watermark, and then the 100 watermark alot sooner than blueray

Who the hell said anything about games not hitting the 360 because of disc scape, only UT2k8 said that storage might be an issue but it had yet to be seen, and that microsoft was helping them to fit everthing onto the disc.

Not to mention that most games barely break the 6gb watermark and have in this gen and the last gen, and thats without games taking advantage of procedural coding and texturing and sound yet... as soon as developers start porting over to procedural coding, textures and sound, we're going to see games drop to 1/4th size and the need for more disc space disappear

Its funny how people say the Bluray is a killer feature for the ps3... yet last i checked PC game developers aren't bitching about needing more dvd space.

Developers target 9gb because with that they can hit the PS3/360 and the PC. If they go and let it bloat to over 9gb then guess what they just removed their market of 360 and PC or made it more difficult. And with the PS3 counting for 14% of total nextgen consoles sold i doubt thats a "smart" move, i doubt non-sony published games will "need" more than 9gb.

There is one aspect of the format war that nobody ever really talks about and that is that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives are now going into desktop and laptop computers at a higher rate. I remember going from 1.44MB floppies to 700MB CD's. Then from 700MB CD's to 4.7GB DVD's and then from 4.7GB DVD's to 9GB DVD's. From a storage standpoint, are you honestly going to tell me that a 30GB HD-DVD is better than a 50GB Blu-Ray disc? Why?

@CruJones: good point. Also, my thinking is this. If I actually buy a hard copy of a movie, that means I probably really like the movie to watch multuple times. So, I will want all the extra bells and whistles. Like Star Wars, I will click on every like feature Lucas puts in there. And, I think this is where blu-ray is a winner in my opinion as it has the Java Features plus the extra space.
I know the quality of picture/sound is totally the same for both. But, if I just want to watch the movie, I would prefer download it and watch it once anyway.
At least is seems to me we always pick the inferior technology as the winner, PS2 over gamecube and Xbox, VHS over Beta and Laserdisc, ColecoVision over Atari 5200 etc. So, maybe we will end up picking HD-DVD.

@CruJones: I'd say both are way, way too small too worry about using them as storage. Why bother, external hard drives are pretty much the way to go these days.

So, HD-DVD is cheaper to make. Then:

1: Why do HD-DVD discs cost the same as Blu-Ray discs? You're so stinking committed to consumer value, why are you charging the same?

2: Why not charge Blu-ray users $2.50 or $3.00 more for their Blu-ray discs and expand your market?

It's because you accepted bribes to drop Blu-ray. Admit it scumbag.

People should also remember that Sony IS essentially giving away the blu ray players in the PS3. They are suffering tremendous losses on the unit because of this.

@ssjmichael:

Not really. Compression and game coding continues to improve all the time. Games with much better graphics take the same amount of storage, or less, than games from ten years ago. The load times on a blu-ray drive are miserably slow when compared to DVD drives. This is why some PS3 games load the same graphics and textures in multiple places on the disc, just to try to mimimize load times just a tiny bit.