Gizmodo
We just got the scoop from Microsoft on Windows Mobile 7 and Windows Mobile 8, the two upcoming platforms that will fix what is undeniably broken about the Windows Mobile platform to date.
This was originally going to be a piece about how Microsoft had no idea what the consumer wanted, where I would explain what I thought Microsoft needed to do to fix it. Oh, I still discuss the flaws, but while talking to the Windows Mobile team, I learned about the next two versions of the mobile OS. Turns out, Microsoft knows exactly what's wrong with the WM platform, and it knows what to do to fix it. Trust me: there's hope on the horizon.
Before I get to the big Windows Mobile fix, it's important to see where it is now. Take a look above at the Windows Mobile Professional (the touchscreen version) and Windows Mobile Standard (the non-touchscreen, usually slimmer version). Got a good look?
The number one biggest problem with Windows Mobile is its UI.
I have no problems with Windows itself, and I work on a Vista PC (along with a Leopard Mac) every single day. WM's problem is that it isn't Windows. Here are a few of the unnecessarily complicated attributes that Windows Mobile doesn't share with desktop Windows:
• It's very hard to multitask. Multitasking is there, and you can run multiple programs at the same time, but everything is "full screen" and there's no easy way to switch between apps. There's no task bar to see what apps are open, and there's no indicator to the user that anything else is open. You actually have to dig into the Start menu, then Settings, then the System tab, then Memory, then the Running Programs tab just to see what's going on! Microsoft fixed this by inserting a dropdown task manager in more recent builds of Windows Mobile 6, but you still can't jump from app to app with ease. Which leads us to...
• Closing a program doesn't really close it. You'd think that pressing the "X" button on an app closes it, but all it does is minimize it. You have to dive into the menus to terminate a program or, on a newer build, go back to the Home/Today screen and close via the top-right icon. Not exactly what we call convenient.
• Different builds work differently. We can see why there are two major versions of Windows Mobile for phones—Professional and Smartphone—since different form factors require different UI philosophies for input. But when you compare the Tablet PC version of Windows with the standard desktop version, there isn't that huge of a difference. If you know how to use one, you should know how to use the other. Not quite so when you switch from the stylus input of Windows Mobile Pro to the D-Pad of Windows Mobile Smartphone. This isn't noticed by the masses, since most people only use one Windows Mobile device, but it is a telling concern. Plus, getting around with that D-Pad sucks.
Beyond OS structural design, the day-to-day usage of Windows Mobile isn't what you'd call "friendly," either. In fact, it'd probably punch you in the face if you even made eye contact. Take dialing, for instance. How can the main purpose of a phone—calling someone—be so hard to do? 
If you're using a Windows Mobile Professional device, you have a few options, none of which are good:
• You can pull out the stylus to tap in the digits. This requires two hands.
• You can try and use your fingertip to call, which doesn't normally work, so you'll use your fingernail, which does work but, as it results in many misdialed numbers, takes forever.
• You can slide out the keyboard and find the dialpad buried among the QWERTY keys and dial, which requires two hands and intense concentration.
• You can try and bring up the contact list, which takes a long-ass time to scroll through, or you can slide out the keyboard again and search by name. Again, two hands.
• Voice Command has been an option for years, but then again, it kinda works, but it doesn't work well.
• Probably the best way to go is to program your most important numbers into speed dial, as you'll be able to actually talk to the correct person within, say, three button presses.
Compare that to the iPhone, which has just a touchscreen, but gets you to the keypad, your favorites, recent calls or your contact list, all within two key presses of the home screen. Dialing shouldn't be this hard, and the fact that it is just illustrates how bad the rest of the UI is.
These additional visuals should illustrate the fact that Windows Mobile isn't a platform designed for the general public. Even for technically knowledgeable users, there's a gigantic learning curve when picking one up for the first time. Imagine giving one to your parents. Then imagine all the calls you'll get—from their home phone, no less, because they couldn't figure out how to use their new Windows Mobile.
WM's core suite of apps include IE, the SMS client, the email client and Windows Media player; all are sub-par compared other smartphones. There's a reason why the iPhone's browser marketshare is already 0.09% when the entire Windows CE family (which includes Windows Mobile, among other things) is only at 0.06%. Why? It's because nobody wants to go online with that version of IE. They'd rather wait until they get a real computer rather than trudge through WAP decks, insufficiently optimized versions of web pages and hard to use interfaces.
If you're an advanced user, you'll eventually be able to learn how to bypass or augment certain parts of the phone with third-party applications. Going back to the dialer example, the default dialpad has buttons that are way too small to be usable. This isn't unfixable: You simply have to download a new dialer skin, transfer it onto the internal storage or memory card, shove it in the right directory, overwrite some files and restart the phone! What the crap? If you want a nice, full-sized picture of your contact to show up when that person calls you, you'll have to pay $19.99 for another add-on app. If you want to enable certain features, you actually have to go into the registry and manually make changes. Provided, that is, you go out and find a registry editor.
But enough about the software, what about the hardware? Isn't Windows Mobile really slow because it's insufficiently powered? Yes and no. Yes, because there are certain phones like the T-Mobile HTC Wing and the AT&T Tilt that feel like watching old people practicing Tai Chi. Then there's the Sprint HTC Mogul that's fast as lightning and feels more like watching Jet Li destroy a school full of martial arts students. I blame many manufacturers for not juicing up the hardware enough, and I blame carriers for overburdening these phones with too much junk that people aren't asking for, like the AT&T music store or Sprint video shop. (It's a lot like all of that promotional junk that comes pre-loaded on a new computer.) When one phone pisses the pot with lackluster performance, the entire platform gets a bad name.
The matter of fact is, Windows Mobile can do just about anything you'd want it to do. It can edit Office documents, send and receive Exchange email, browse the web, chat on IM, give you turn-by-turn GPS directions, play music, watch videos and so much more. The features are there, but the experience isn't. Turns out, the Windows Mobile team knows it.
Microsoft is working to fix the whole WM platform. Here's how:
Even when using a super sluggish WinMo phone, it's less an example of a manufacturer not meeting the minimum requirements for RAM, ROM and CPU power, and more a problem of software which has not been optimized to run on it. This is often the service provider's fault. For example, two phones with the same 400MHz processor can be totally different depending on how much optimization the provider decides to do. When you're using a slow phone, blame the provider.
On the same token, the Windows Mobile OS team actually does set a minimum hardware requirement for the "core" features of the OS to make sure the user experience is a good one, but the minimum-requirement bar may be set too low. When companies add apps on top of the core, things start to wobble. Product manager Derek Snyder told me that Microsoft will raise the bar for minimum requirements to a level where phones can be loaded with more software without slowing down the most basic of tasks (e.g. sliding open the AT&T Tilt from portrait to landscape mode).
That's not to say Microsoft isn't dodging the problematic UI and the other software shortcomings. Derek admits that, up until now, the team has focused too much on the enterprise side, attracting IT customers with vertically useful features like Exchange support, not on ease of use. Starting from here on out, they're going to be more consumer oriented. "The business stuff has been taken care of," he says.
This focus can be clearly seen when you look above at the leaked Windows Mobile 6.1 details we showed you last week. There's an much more streamlined home screen that puts only a few things in your face at once. There's a caller-ID box that lets you easily see who's calling. There's threaded SMS. There's a recent programs list in the Start menu. They are great updates, but they are tweaks, not huge fixes, baby steps toward a goal that may not ultimately be reached until one or two major revisions down the line (read: Windows Mobile 7 or 8).
It is the next version of Windows Mobile that looks promising. First, Microsoft will retool the main suite of applications such as IE, email and SMS. According to them, they will try to bring IE up to par with the iPhone's Safari browser, and deliver "desktop grade" browsing with zooming and scaling and all that good stuff. Then there's the improved music and photo experience, taking what they can from other smartphone designs like Palm, iPhone or Symbian, and integrating it into their own apps. There's talk about doing some sort of collaboration with the Zune team, but that's still up in the air.
I'm holding out for the next, next version of Windows Mobile (WM8). That's the one that will be started completely from scratch, with "new plumbing." This is the version you've been waiting for, implementing a completely redesigned user interface, "revolutionary" features like global search, and new concepts such as automation and connections within the phone, ideas borrowed from other smartphone operating systems. This means that you'll be able to go from viewing a person's address info in his contact card to seeing where he lives in map view in one click. There will be much more of this intuitive flow, and far less digging through menus.
Derek sums it up like this: right now the Windows Mobile user experience is lacking. The features are there, but actually using these features is another story. Normal people can't figure it out. He says it's like using a Creative Zen vs. using an iPod or a Zune. You actually want to use a device that does the work for you, instead of making you do all the work. It took guts for Microsoft to admit what its mobile OS was lacking; we're going to do our part and accept their word that a more robust platform followed eventually by a more headache-free interface is where Windows Mobile really is headed.
Windows Mobile 6.1 pictures courtesy Boy Genius Report; Dialer screen courtesy ZDNet; WM Standard courtesy Into Mobile
Comments
Whoo-hoo! First post.
What's this 'Windows' thing I keep hearing about? Is it something like the Mac OS X?
There's so much wrong w/ WM5, it's crazy. BlackJack users have been begging and pleading for an official WM6 release. Some very ambitious people on the Howard Forums have been working on a homebrew version of WM6 for the BlackJack and it is available if you know where to look.
The WM6 does look like it will get released, but the real problem with the smartphones is that companies like AT&T don't want us to have phones with Wi-Fi on them so they can charge us exorbitant fees for internet usage. They even disabled the Internet Connection Sharing in WM6 for this reason. Again, fortunately their customers fixed it for the rest of us!
For the best post on WM6 for the BlackJack, go here: [www.howardforums.com]
@MisterX: Wow...a "first" tool...fun!
"raise the bar" huh? I think they should raise the bar on themselves and make the OS better ;)
"Then there's the Sprint HTC Mogul that's fast as lightning and feels more like watching Jet Li destroy a school full of martial arts students."
Oh please. Check out one of the MANY PPC Phone forums (PPCGeeks, PDAPhoneHome, XDA-Developers, etc.) and you'll find LOADS of people complaining about the Mogul. I have one and though I haven't had terrible problems with it and can't compare it to similar phones, your description of its performance couldn't be further from the truth.
Interesting article.
Some of these "revolutionary" features such as one click contact mapping are already available on Wm6. It's all third party though.
I love my Tytn but the whole experience needs some serious updating now that the iPhone is in town.
Microsoft needs to get a move on. With more winmo smartphones going mainstream, I feel like tey may irreversible alienate consumers with the crap experience. So much so that WM7 and WM8 may not even matter to anyone but those without blackberries in the business crowd.
Good article, Jason. On my HTC 8525, I experience many of the frustrations you mentioned, but not all. WM6 is not a perfect mobile OS, but it works fine for me. My favorite part is undoubtedly the sync with my Windows SBS Server, and I love the handful of games and free/shareware add-ons I've unearthed.
From what you've mentioned, it looks like WM8 will be the "Win95" or maybe even "XP" to get more marketshare. Win95 was the OS that got me off of the Mac (well, that and Steve Jobs gutting the Apple Developer program), so I look forward to finding smarter ways to work when I'm mobile.
Cool article.
One important thing that I think was left out is: yes, you can download programs to add additional features, but those additional programs often are at the expense of the stability of the entire phone. I added an app to allow me to switch between tasks and my phone would crash twice a day. This type of thing was very common when I had a WinMo phone. I've had a large number of apps installed on my iPhone and only two have made it crash (both IM apps strangely).
Although I think there are a lot less issues with the iPhone UI, it would be interesting to see an article about it pointing out or even nit-picking at details.
@MisterX:
Oh god... please tell me we're not going to have people reloading gizmodo every five second so they can write be the first person to write some stupid comment and point out that they're the first comment as if it's a gold medal.
@Keebler:
Just flag it and maybe it will go away.
I suffered with WM for yeeears, with the Treo, MotoQ. Having moved on to the iPhone, I only look at the WM interface in disgust. The "leaked" screen shot is an improvement, yes, but it's still a horrible UI. They have to completely change the UI and their apps, not make incremental changes.
The only reason why they are now focusing on the UI is not because they are "done" with Enterprise apps on their WM platform. The only reason is because of the iPhone, and you know what? They are about a year late...
i really hope they make a zune phone... and not to copy the iphone. because the biggest problem ive seen with windows mobile phones is all of them are really underpowered (my q is painful sometimes). id trust microsoft (or apple with the iphone) more to put enough power in a phone than moto or htc.
ms really needs to take the zune/iphone approach to windows mobile and make their own complete solution. zune has proved it can make devices as good and better than apple.
@spenceman01: It has gone away.
Possibly, by the time WM8 is released, I'll be in the market for a new phone. Until then, I couldn't be happier with my Palm Centro. And yes, I know I'm alone.
It is great to know that MS is going to do some much need house cleaning to their mobile OS. I think that originally starting as a PDA OS and then throwing a phone interface on top was the first (of many) mistakes they made way back when.
That said it is still no excuse for years and years of the same problem with an OS that is clearly crippling whatever device you throw it on. This will put MS late to the 'new' wave of well designed mobile OS's behind Apple, Android, and Symbian.
However competition is always good for consumers and, eventually, the industry as a whole. So I will remain cautiously excited with the arrival or WM8.
Windows Mobile has been broken since 1999. I know that sounds like it is meant to be a smart-ass remark, but I remember comparing my Palm Pilot with WiMo and it had the *same* problems then as it has these so many years later: Just read Jason's paragraph "It's very hard to multitask". This has not changed from 1999 till now! I don't know why anyone would continue to waste their time with WiMo when there are other, better, alternatives.
Nice analysis Jason.
so when is WM8 going to be on handsets?
2012?
Ha! I didn't realize the Creative Zen was so difficult to use or that it's Ipod/Zune against the world. C'mon dude.
Windows mobile was best when it was still CE 2.x. That was back when it did work more like windows, After that Microsoft move the start menu to the top so you hand covers it and started stripping features. Its funny how after several versions they realized they screwed it up.
You can tell the author of this article leans Apple, for example comparing looking up a contact and claiming you have to scroll in WM when you can simply go straight to the letter you want, much easier than having to scroll and scroll and scroll like the iphone.
Ooh...the other thing I don't like is that many of the core apps don't close on their own. If you leave your contacts list by pressing the End key, it's still running in the background eating your memory up. Do this with Contacts, Calendar, Tasks, and others...you start getting some serious problems pretty quickly! You have to open your Task Manager to remove them. Holding down the Home key on the BJ brings that up and is an alternative to the method Jason mentions.
Isn't this simply a microcosm of the overall issue with Windows? Windows has a ton of features, but their UI prevents full use; Mac's are more intuitive, 3rd party software creates instability, etc.
The problem is that its been going on for years and they do little about it because they have the same attitude as they do about Windows overall- we're the dominant player and you'll wait for us to improve things at our leisure. And because of the Exchange issue, they're partially right.
One of the biggest problems is the carriers. They are the 400 lb gorilla's who can give a sh*t about the quality of their apps or the "experience." They'll stuff phones with low quality bloatware, disable anything that's useful (modem, gps use w/o service, etc.) so they can make another $1 at the expense of customers satisifaction (and loose 1000X that amount)
I don't understand why all these Windows Mobile phones have so little memory. I know we can add more via SD cards (micro, mini, or otherwise), but they are much slower and can contribute to the phone's lagging UI. Please, raise the specs to include a decent amount of FAST memory!
In regards to adding 3rd party apps, I couldn't agree with KEEBLER more, more often than not it is at the expense of stability.
Lastly, I'd really like to know what and were some of these installers are putting files!
@spenceman01:
you're doing it wrong. using my mogul is exactly like destroying a school full of martial arts students.
I'm holding out for the next, next version of Windows Mobile (WM8). That's the one that will be started completely from scratch, with "new plumbing".
Sort like Longhorn (vista) was supposed to be?
Good write-up with positive stuff on the horizon, but I still think the unavoidable problem with Windows Mobile is that it's not tailored for each device.
For example, Safari on the iPhone is really cool, but I think a lot of the "magic" is the result of its pairing with the hardware. It would not be as impressive on a device with a different touchscreen.
Conversely, WM is designed with a set of specs in mind, but not specific hardware. Its focus is on working on many different devices, not working well on just one. That optimization and tailoring for specific devices is very important with the current constraints on mobile tech.
Apple is the most experienced when it comes to tailoring software to hardware. Nokia is making solid progress here as well. Microsoft, however, simply does not do this. Microsoft can make a great UI, as seen with the new Zune interface, but they just can't tailor a UI for every device out there.
Hopefully they fix the Auto freeze up feature that they have embedded in the Tilt.
Mogul's not remotely lightning-fast. At least the Tilt has a decent amount of memory. I love my Mogul, but it's broken in so many unfixable ways. I can't wait for WM7 and 8. I'll pay to upgrade to something usable.
Been using WM5/6 for over an year now, and while you certainly can get along with it, it has serious problems. And yes, the UI is the biggest. They tried to cram way too much functionality behind tiny little icons and dropdown menus that are pain in the ass to use without the stylus. Now stylus, there is nothing that can justify the need of digging out stick every time you want to use the device just that you can poke those tiny little icons and dropdown menus, nothing. I've downloaded quite a bit of applications since the release of iPhone that allow me to use my fingers instead of stylus and I can guarantee, if you weren't using PDA before iPhone, you certainly can't comprehend the ball of revolution they set rolling in the scene.
So Microsoft wants 7 to 8 releases to get things right? Is this a nightmare dream world or has reality gone on drugs?
I hate to sound like a fanboy, but only thing broken with than platform is IT IS NOT IPHONE. I don't if it is a fact but I feel Microsoft's user experience designers product managers with software or business background where as IPhone seems like it is designed by fashion designer or an architect
(PS: I make my living writing software with Microsoft Products)...
Well, now that Apple has released the iPhone, Microsoft now has a clear template to work with. As we all know,Microsoft has never been known for its invention and it has not been able to accomplish in 7 or 8 versions what Apple could do in 1.
But then again, look at what MS has to work with. They are up in Washington and only pay developers 65% of industry standards so I guess that is why we only get software which is only 65% useful.
- Roger
More often than not the free 3rd party apps are the ones causing the instability of the phone. The ones that charge do so because there's hours of development behind them. The free ones do the job, but only after the application has been refined, do they become more stable.
*stands up and applauds*
Very well written! I see all the issues were examined and suggestions made...not just a bunch of crying or fanboyism. Cant wait for microsoft to fix pretty much exactly what the article said
Thanks!
New releases of WM are pointless because many of us have devices or carriers that will not allow or provide upgrades. We're stuck with the broken current releases of WM. Meanwhile over in iPhone land, they've had 3 or four free upgrades in the past six months.
They just need to stop. Open up ActiveSync/Directpush to Apple and Symbian. WM even on the HTC Mogul I had was completely awful for anything other than exchange.
Drop the sale and support for Vista, giving ALL users (not just Vista Business) the free downgrade to XP. Windows 7 promises to be a million times better.
Fix Exchange 2007! Sure, the OWA is nice, but the admin tool is about as bad as ISA 2000. At least all the mailboxes went back to 2003 just fine.
Don't screw us on Server 2008, like you did on Vista.
That's all good. It's nice to see MS trying to make some improvements. However, I saw some missing information there;
Will they improve or require improvement too, sound quality so WM phones can actually work as PMPs? Improving the software is useless if the phones continue to sound like crap and/or I have to fight to find a set of earphones that work with the things. The iPhone has them beat ten ways from Sunday on that.
Will they get it done before iPhone's SDK results in the iPhone getting the missing features in comparison to WM? If not, I may switch before they get there. The only thing keeping me on WM now is feature issues. If Apple resolves that, I'm switching. (Note to Apple: If you want to kick WM's butt, open up the SDK so anyone can code for it)
That is all.
@europria: You honestly think that, for example, the calendar application in Windows Mobile is good in terms of usability? I have almost completely stopped making calendar events on the go since it's such a pain in the ass to fill all the times with those nightmarish downdown menus and things like that you cannot create new event in month view. There is mountain of stuff in user experience side that are wrong with WM, on technical side I have no complaints, but the usability is just sad. WM UI is clearly designed to be used with mouse, it's evident in every single application shipped with the platform, with the exception of the phone app. Now, where is the mouse? Oh, there is no mouse. Then, what the fuck is this shit?
im a wm6 user (with a lightning fast touch) and like it, but by the time wm8 rolls around i fully intend to be using an android device
Great article and a great bevy of inside improvements to the next 2 versions of Windows Mobile.
I was a long time Pocket PC user until I went back to Palm. Mostly due to my using a Mac for everything I do outside of my day job. But the interface was pretty simple and has been for years.
I recently upgraded my Cingular pre-paid phone to a Treo 750 and most recently did the WM6 upgrade. While it's got some improvements, it's still lacking a of lot ease of use functionality that you talked about above.
What's funny is that the simplicity of Palm hasn't changed in years and it works very well. Compared to Windows Mobile which aside from some changes here and there, is still pretty much the same when I was using Pocket PC 2002 devices. Yet, it needs something to help the clutter and resolve the "where is this?" question that comes up often.
I'm hoping to see more improvements that help the non-business user being able to have a viable alternative to the Blackberry and Palm smartphones.
WM 2003 SE and WM 2005 were exactly the reasons WHY I sold my Dell Axim x50v. I switched to Blackberry and hadn't had a problem since, considering it syncs fine with my Outlook Calendar. But, these two new versions seem interesting, if not, intriguing. I might consider switching back to a pda/smartphone deal with WM if it can correct the UI problems and streamline its apps. God, I can't tell you how annoying it was with all the damn memory leaks from "closing" an app, only for it to remain active in the background...
Every one of the problems listed in this article have been corrected by third party apps. Alt tab for multi tasking, there are multiple task managers available, X-button for closing programs. Maybe more time is needed in correcting the problems and less time writing articles bitching about them?
I've used Windows Mobile 5 for a year, and I've had an iPhone for the last six weeks. WM6 looks pretty marginal, and I'm sure WM7 and WM8 are going to be increasingly kneejerk reactions to the iPhone. The bottom line is that with Windows Mobile, I ended up using it as a phone and an alarm clock and nothing more. It was just too slow and clunky. Every task is completely lacking in consideration of ergonomics and usability. Watching old people do move furniture is a more apt description.
Then there's the iPhone, which is practically from a different planet. It's like the designers completely bossed around the engineers, the opposite of what the the Windows Mobile convention is.
Bottom line: I'd use Windows Mobile because I had to, and I use the iPhone because I actually like to.
@thud3333:
Writing articles to bitch about problems is precisely why 3rd parties make applications to begin with. To TSFU and go play on your SideKick or something
Microsoft has such a history of announcing products that don't (and may never) exist (Cairo, real Longhorn, etc. etc.) that no one should write about any sort of future Windows anything anymore. You're allowing a really crappy form of marketing to continue when really there should only be community pressure to stop it.
Likewise, if Microsoft has a real product in development, they need to shut up and develop it, not to equal in 5 years what is already in the competitive market today, but to be 10 years ahead of the curve. Mobile IE in 6 or 7 equalling MobileSafari of today is ridiculous. It needs to blow MobileSafari out of the water.
Look. did Apple announce iPhone 5 years ago and claim it would be as good as Windows Mobile 2000? Nope. They kept quiet until MacWorld, and then delivered a game-changing surprise. Instead of cloning old software, Microsoft needs to clone that marketing approach.
Now, maybe Microsoft has never been big on innovation. They've been big on announcing innovation just to stop (potential) customers from checking out rivals who are delivering innovation today. But the problem is, that won't work forever. It might not even work in the post Google-services-as-software world of today.
I am utterly unimpressed with any announcements about WinMob or Windows 7. Want to start some wow, have Bill Gates show up at his final CES and give an amazing, ready-to-ship demo that leaves jaws on the table.
Until then, please don't contribute to vapor-marketing. Innovation should BE the competition.
What's really sad is that this article even exists. MS has been working on CE/WM for almost 10 years now and it's not drastically improved in that time. Look at the difference between Win98 and Vista. Now look at the difference between PPC2003 and WM6.
MS desperately needs to take the mobile space seriously. The pace at which WM makes progress is unacceptable. Look at apps like PocketCM, One touch Organizer, TouchFLO, and any of the multitude of finger usable apps since the iPhone came out. Who was Microsoft talking to for the last 10 years that said, "Yeah, I like dicking around with a tiny plastic pencil on my phone, it's great!". I use almost entirely 3rd party apps on my 8525 because the built in ones all suck.
MS also needs to figure out how they fucked up on building a developer community. The iPhone has a bunch of good quality apps and it doesn't even have an SDK. The iPhone is an openly hostile development environment and people are developing for it...how do you screw up your platform so badly that people would rather hack a different platform than use your development tools? The quantity of good quality apps on WM6 is just sad.
MS has to start forcing the carriers to not put stupid bullshit on their phones. If I was using the AT&T ROM for my 8525 I'd gouge my eyes out (actually I'd buy an iPhone, but you get the idea). The amount of bloat and slowness in the AT&T ROM is amazing. MS has to realize that this reflects on them, not on AT&T (it should reflect on AT&T, but most people don't realize they have a choice of cooked ROMs).
I love what I can do with my 8525, I just hate what a pain in the ass it is to do it all. I know my next phone is going to be an Android phone. MS can't fix what's wrong with WM by early/mid next year, unless they move all of their development resources into it, which they won't.