@masshuum: nVidia caused a lot of blue screens because they couldn't code drivers for Vista. A majority of the problems Vista faced were the result of bad drivers by hardware manufacturers. After it had been out for about a year, hardware manufacturers finally learned how to code drivers for it and MS released SP1 which fixed almost all of the problems endemic to Vista. #zfs
@Nathan Obbards: What's ironic is that nVidia's early drivers for Vista were pretty poor, but they actually got worse in the months after the release. At the start they'd just driver crash (Vista recovers from normal driver crashes with a screen flicker and a warning message). They didn't start BSODing until a few months after release. #zfs
@jinushaun: The key difference being that ZFS was never a flagship item. The only people who care are people who run data centers- ZFS is waaaaaay too much file-system for your average user.
1) They underestimated the work getting it fully integrated; not just 'there if you know how to get to it', but fully productized and easy enough for their audience to use. And taking into account all the new failure and configuration paths.
2) It's not really something blingy that they can explain to most of their customer base. How many people are using their MacBook or iMac and going 'dang, this file system is really just adequate' and tossing the OS in disgust?
3) So they just never had enough manpower to dedicate to it full time when they could have those people working on something else like MMS in the iPhone or the iTablet or a thousand other things. The best people for this job would have been the ones who were desperately trying to get 10.6 out and had their hands full of other stuff like the Finder rewrite.
@oldtaku: you make some really good points. the only thing that I thought I'd add is that the target customer base for Mac OS X Server is going to typically be a much more 'technologically literate' group of people than the average Mac customer... meaning that ZFS isn't necessarily something that Apple would really need to advertise as a 'blingy' feature. Then again... it IS Apple after all...
@oldtaku: I don't buy argument #2, considering that it was announced as part of Snow Leopard Server. The Server product is not about "blingy" features, and NONE of it is described to most of their customer base. People using MacBooks and iMacs typically wouldn't be using X Server anyway.
Argument #3 doesn't quite make sense, since Apple keeps their project teams so discrete.
has anyone else notice that the interface was updated in iTunes when you run snow leopard. the scroll bar when view apps is well different. at least from my knowledge. EDIT: sorry if that was out of the blue, i just saw the comment below and i was thinking about the UI
Wasn't there also something called a "Marble Interface"? Perhaps in the Blizzard edition. Still -- looking forward to Snow Leopard which I should receive from Amazon by Friday of this week. Rumors be damned. This is the real thing. Thanks Apple!
@ploopsy: apparently you missed the first sentance....
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In 2008, Apple announced that we would see ZFS as part of Snow Leopard Server, but a year later our copies are shipping with ZFS nowhere to be found.
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@DBrim: Actually, it's not just a service pack as it re-writes major portions of the OS. Leopard is not a true 64 bit os. It's a hybrid 64/32 bit OS. Snow Leopard fixes that, graphics rendering, and a bunch of other things that were frankly dragging the OS down.
And if you'll notice, they're only charging $29 for the upgrade. Which last I knew was far better than ANYTHING Microsoft had put forth, and considering how bad VISTA is, they had really better cut their customers a huge financial break.
I don't consider major system re-writes to be just a service pack. I consider a service pack to be a roll-up of existing system patches already to market, plus a few new ones. Apple just released 10.5.7 recently which was some 450 megs?
Not to mention, the new OS takes up 6 gigs less space than than 10.5 does. Something Neither Vista or Windows 7 can claim.
If MS released a package similar to SL it would be free. The major rewrite you are talking about is something that they had promised to devs forever ago. WTF do you think cocoa was for... Jesus wake up
The OS takes up 6gb less because they killed PPC support AND SP2 for Vista did clean up space.
What's the point in even responding... Go drink some more kool aid fanboi.
@UnderLoK: Actually, if you look above, you'll see where I'm interested in both Win7, and Snow Leopard. But Vista does not run, "Just fine", I support it daily, I use it daily. Hell I use it more than I use MacOS. It's bloated, slow, buggy, and well, like every iteration of Windows since 95 it likes to eat itself to death over time. Only, faster.
If Vista ran "Just fine" then Microsoft wouldn't have had to spend $300 million on a marketing campaign to rebrand Vista as Mojave.
XP is a superior OS to Vista. Period. I'm not "drinking the kooliad". As for how they recovered 6 gig of OS space, if you'd actually bothered to do your homework you'd know why it's smaller. They even said so during the keynote yesterday. If you think Cocoa and PPC support was 6 gig worth of code, you're insane.
Let's take a look at Vista objectively compared to XP. The same applications run slower, and use more memory running under Vista than XP. There were lawsuits filed against Microsoft over its Vista Ready program.
When installing a program that requires administrative access to do so, it will prompt you to cancel your install and re-start it as administrator. OSX simply pops up a prompt and asks you to type in your password. XP doesn't even bother you with this at all. I really liked XP as an OS. It was far superior to 2000 Pro.
But, no, I don't "Fail" the moment I talk about how bad Vista runs. Only pathetic wannabes throw out words like "fail" and "Kool-aid" when trying to make a point. Which, in you're case you haven't made any point.
As for SP2 for Vista cleaning up space... No, not really. It merely cleans up archived versions of files it replaces. Overall it uses about an additional 1 gig of drive space after installation.
But, what the hell do I know? Obviously I'm just a "failed" fanboi drinking the "kool-aid" because I can appreciate that OSX is a good OS, and definitely a superior one to Vista. Windows 7? Not so much, and I can't say that I will consider Snow Leopard better than Windows 7. Right now it is likely I won't.
Sorry, I don't worship at the altar of Microsoft. When they release a shitty product, I call them on it. Same goes for Apple, or even crummy Linux distributions.
So far it looks like Windows 7 is going to jump ahead of OSX in ability and cleanliness of function. I think the only saving grace would be if Snow Leopard managed to really nail the performance improvements that Apple is aiming for.
10/24/09
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08/31/09
1) They underestimated the work getting it fully integrated; not just 'there if you know how to get to it', but fully productized and easy enough for their audience to use. And taking into account all the new failure and configuration paths.
2) It's not really something blingy that they can explain to most of their customer base. How many people are using their MacBook or iMac and going 'dang, this file system is really just adequate' and tossing the OS in disgust?
3) So they just never had enough manpower to dedicate to it full time when they could have those people working on something else like MMS in the iPhone or the iTablet or a thousand other things. The best people for this job would have been the ones who were desperately trying to get 10.6 out and had their hands full of other stuff like the Finder rewrite.
08/31/09
09/01/09
Argument #3 doesn't quite make sense, since Apple keeps their project teams so discrete.
08/31/09
08/31/09
08/31/09
08/31/09
Apple wouldn't have to worry so much about GPL since still owns the Darwin kernel and can license it under whatever it wants.
Also it can just write the file system support as a kmod and not link it in directly (just means you can't boot from ZFS file system).
08/31/09
08/31/09
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In 2008, Apple announced that we would see ZFS as part of Snow Leopard Server, but a year later our copies are shipping with ZFS nowhere to be found.
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see that part about Snow Leopard SERVER........
08/31/09
08/31/09
Actually It slipped my mind by the time I got to the end of it.
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08/31/09
"ZFS" became "ZDF" half way through.
08/31/09
Thanks for the catch, fixed.
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Windows 7 >>> No Leopard
06/09/09
Which, I haven't seen demo'd yet.
06/09/09
Leopard wasn't a service pack like many asserted (it actually added features), but this is since it adds nothing.
06/09/09
And if you'll notice, they're only charging $29 for the upgrade. Which last I knew was far better than ANYTHING Microsoft had put forth, and considering how bad VISTA is, they had really better cut their customers a huge financial break.
I don't consider major system re-writes to be just a service pack. I consider a service pack to be a roll-up of existing system patches already to market, plus a few new ones. Apple just released 10.5.7 recently which was some 450 megs?
Not to mention, the new OS takes up 6 gigs less space than than 10.5 does. Something Neither Vista or Windows 7 can claim.
06/09/09
If MS released a package similar to SL it would be free. The major rewrite you are talking about is something that they had promised to devs forever ago. WTF do you think cocoa was for... Jesus wake up
The OS takes up 6gb less because they killed PPC support AND SP2 for Vista did clean up space.
What's the point in even responding... Go drink some more kool aid fanboi.
06/09/09
If Vista ran "Just fine" then Microsoft wouldn't have had to spend $300 million on a marketing campaign to rebrand Vista as Mojave.
XP is a superior OS to Vista. Period. I'm not "drinking the kooliad". As for how they recovered 6 gig of OS space, if you'd actually bothered to do your homework you'd know why it's smaller. They even said so during the keynote yesterday. If you think Cocoa and PPC support was 6 gig worth of code, you're insane.
Let's take a look at Vista objectively compared to XP. The same applications run slower, and use more memory running under Vista than XP. There were lawsuits filed against Microsoft over its Vista Ready program.
When installing a program that requires administrative access to do so, it will prompt you to cancel your install and re-start it as administrator. OSX simply pops up a prompt and asks you to type in your password. XP doesn't even bother you with this at all. I really liked XP as an OS. It was far superior to 2000 Pro.
But, no, I don't "Fail" the moment I talk about how bad Vista runs. Only pathetic wannabes throw out words like "fail" and "Kool-aid" when trying to make a point. Which, in you're case you haven't made any point.
As for SP2 for Vista cleaning up space... No, not really. It merely cleans up archived versions of files it replaces. Overall it uses about an additional 1 gig of drive space after installation.
But, what the hell do I know? Obviously I'm just a "failed" fanboi drinking the "kool-aid" because I can appreciate that OSX is a good OS, and definitely a superior one to Vista. Windows 7? Not so much, and I can't say that I will consider Snow Leopard better than Windows 7. Right now it is likely I won't.
Sorry, I don't worship at the altar of Microsoft. When they release a shitty product, I call them on it. Same goes for Apple, or even crummy Linux distributions.
06/09/09
But, we'll see I guess. I'll end up buying both.