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Chris Jacob
Foul seems like the wrong thing to do. Who would purposely "foul?"
But if you don't foul, you're not playing at the peak of your game. A team that isn't fouling isn't playing hard.
If a computer company is perfect - any computer company - they're waiting too long to go to market with new products. Innovation requires a certain percentage of fouls.
The issue is where is the line? If more than a tolerable threshold of products fail, then the line is in the wrong place. But if more than a certain threshold are perfect, then the line is also in the wrong place.
A friend of mine bought a Mac Pro with a similar issue. The graphics were similarly malfunctioning due to overheating. He was outraged. He just spent all this money, and his computer didn't work. After a ghetto workaround, Apple replaced his graphics card with a better model.
Obviously anyone who just bought a 17" computer that doesn't work should be outraged. Just as obviously, it'll get fixed. But from a strategic level, if the issue effects a negligible percentage, it's better to incur and fix, then to ensure 100% perfection and innovate at a slower pace.
If an auto maker shipped a car with a faulty clutch, there would be a mandatory recall. I can understand flaws in code. But this isn't a bug. This is defective manufacturing. Which, at least since the Intel switch, has been the norm from Cupertino. There were the MooBook problems, problems where Apple was shipping MacBooks with plastic covering the vents, and display problems across the entire line (like the fry&freeze problem with the iMacs). This is not a "we want perfection but have to ship something eventually" problem. This is a lack of quality control problem.
Nvidia chips have heat issues and have had those issues for years. Apple shouldn't have put such a chip in an enclosure that does not allow for peak heat dissipation. Or, if Apple wants to use Nvidia, it should focus on heat dispersal. The chip being faulty is Nvidia's problem. The choice to use it is Apple's problem.
The market allows this behavior because it has been drilled into people's minds that it is to be expected. You can't engineer perfection. But you can have proper quality control measures in place. And Apple's QC department is negligible.
Wow, speak of the devil. I was just reading the discussion forum yesterday and saw this. Apple hardware is beautiful when it works right, but I wouldn't dare buy any of their first generation products. Always give them a generation or two to figure things out, not that it's any excuse.
This is all just a misunderstanding. If there are any "problems" with video it was by design, and Dear Leader Jobs is trying to impose upon us a lesson of which our brains are too inferior to extrapolate.
How many are affected? That's one detail that is missing from this post and n important one to understand if it is widespread or just a few machines (unfortunate but rather normal)
From the forum posts I see only a handfull of posters discussing this, one of them has apparently got an answer from Apple.
I'd say it doesn't look good for Nvidia AND Apple. Nvidia may be the one having chip problems, but Apple keeps going back to them and apparently doesn't seem to be doing a good job of catching these defects on testing (which should be that much easier for them to do compared to most other manufacturers given their deep pockets and very limited number of models they have test.)
@Ron-Mexico: And you're right. When the first Macbook Pros were released, they were riddled with heating issues, and the same happened to Macbooks when they dropped. The cooling issue was so bad on both that the Macbooks had wiring shortages, hence the random shut down syndrome. Macbook Pros had better cooling overall, so fewer units experienced that problem.
I definitely think that these Macbooks have cooling problems which cause considerable damage to the graphics, even if they don't get very hot externally, their tight form factors can bring much difficulty.
Hey, if your name is on the box, you gotta check every component for quality even if you are outsourcing design/production of some components to someone else.
And all of the fanbois and Macheads, waist deep in all their image distortions and overheating boards, will look up and shout 'Save us', and I'll whisper 'No'.
03/08/09
Don't you all get tired of making the same worthless comments everytime?
Your all sheep, build a hackintosh, PCs suck, sprinkled with a few crazy liinux posts and you have yourself one giant retarded group of people.
03/08/09
-or doesn't, whichever the case may be.
03/08/09
03/08/09
03/08/09
A "fix" means someone failed - either in design or in testing or in QC. Or maybe all three.
03/08/09
Foul seems like the wrong thing to do. Who would purposely "foul?"
But if you don't foul, you're not playing at the peak of your game. A team that isn't fouling isn't playing hard.
If a computer company is perfect - any computer company - they're waiting too long to go to market with new products. Innovation requires a certain percentage of fouls.
The issue is where is the line? If more than a tolerable threshold of products fail, then the line is in the wrong place. But if more than a certain threshold are perfect, then the line is also in the wrong place.
A friend of mine bought a Mac Pro with a similar issue. The graphics were similarly malfunctioning due to overheating. He was outraged. He just spent all this money, and his computer didn't work. After a ghetto workaround, Apple replaced his graphics card with a better model.
Obviously anyone who just bought a 17" computer that doesn't work should be outraged. Just as obviously, it'll get fixed. But from a strategic level, if the issue effects a negligible percentage, it's better to incur and fix, then to ensure 100% perfection and innovate at a slower pace.
03/09/09
If an auto maker shipped a car with a faulty clutch, there would be a mandatory recall. I can understand flaws in code. But this isn't a bug. This is defective manufacturing. Which, at least since the Intel switch, has been the norm from Cupertino. There were the MooBook problems, problems where Apple was shipping MacBooks with plastic covering the vents, and display problems across the entire line (like the fry&freeze problem with the iMacs). This is not a "we want perfection but have to ship something eventually" problem. This is a lack of quality control problem.
Nvidia chips have heat issues and have had those issues for years. Apple shouldn't have put such a chip in an enclosure that does not allow for peak heat dissipation. Or, if Apple wants to use Nvidia, it should focus on heat dispersal. The chip being faulty is Nvidia's problem. The choice to use it is Apple's problem.
The market allows this behavior because it has been drilled into people's minds that it is to be expected. You can't engineer perfection. But you can have proper quality control measures in place. And Apple's QC department is negligible.
03/06/09
03/06/09
03/07/09
03/06/09
From the forum posts I see only a handfull of posters discussing this, one of them has apparently got an answer from Apple.
03/06/09
03/06/09
I definitely think that these Macbooks have cooling problems which cause considerable damage to the graphics, even if they don't get very hot externally, their tight form factors can bring much difficulty.
03/06/09
03/06/09
Or they did know about it and determined the cost:benefit of having some faulty cards was worth the return on combined defective/effective unit sales.
Econ 101
03/06/09
:(
03/06/09
Hey, if your name is on the box, you gotta check every component for quality even if you are outsourcing design/production of some components to someone else.
03/06/09
~ATI
03/06/09
Incidently my first generation MacBook Pro's graphic card just crapped out.
The ATI Radeon X1600 Mobility.
Getting vertical lines in the browser window or while watching movies. Seems to definitely be heat related.
03/06/09
03/06/09
03/06/09
03/06/09
03/07/09