• Gizmodo
  • bestmodo
  • lifehacker
  • kotaku
  • Profile logout login

#activesync#discussed

Gizmodo

Share Cancel
   
Upload an image | Add an image URL
×

logging in
  • FAQ. Include # before tag:
  • #tips,
  • #whitenoise,
  • #dealzmodo,
  • #broken,
  • etc.

New York, 2:06 PM
Wed Dec 16
66 posts in the last 24 hours

FR | IT | DE | SP | JP | AU | BR

Gizmodo Team

Tip your editors:

Editorial Director:
Brian Lam | | Twitter

Editor:
Jason Chen
| AIM | Twitter

Features Editor:
Wilson Rothman
| Twitter

Senior Contributing Editors:
Jesus Diaz
| AIM | Twitter
Mark Wilson, Reviews
| AIM | Twitter

Contributing Editors:
Matt Buchanan
| AIM | Twitter
Adam Frucci
| Twitter
Sean Fallon
| Twitter
Jack Loftus
| Twitter
John Herrman
| Twitter
Dan Nosowitz

Chris Mascari

Kat Hannaford
| Twitter
Rosa Golijan
| Twitter
Chris Jacob

Columnist:
Brendan I. Koerner

Interns:
Don Nguyen

Kyle VanHemert

Heroes and Friends

Comment Account Questions:

SUBSCRIBE TO Gizmodo RSS

New: Breaking news and daily top stories via email
9515 Subscribers
Gizmodo
  • Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.
    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!
    08/08/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    While Apple's solution is weak-sauce compared to Microsoft's and RIM's, it's still miles ahead of Nokia Messaging, which (aside from not installing correctly for most users most of the time despite the app NO LONGER being in beta on any version of S60) doesn't do IMAP IDLE properly at all. Some users are lucky enough to have it 'kind-of' work, and there are some weird workarounds to bork the app into sort-of pushing your email to you properly, but for the most part the workarounds are inconsistent and unofficial. Sometimes (infrequently) the app will display your new mail the same instant your webmail receives it, sometimes (more frequently) it'll seemingly batch-receive loads of emails after the fact, even if they're not actually in your inbox anymore, and the rest of the time (too often) it'll just not receive anything at all, even when you ask it to sync and look manually. Asking Nokia for help with it is a bit like asking someone to kick you in the balls-- it seems like no two people in the world are having the SAME problems with the app (although nearly EVERYONE is having SOME problem with it), so Nokia has no official suggestions on how to fix the, er... problems that Nokia won't acknowledge anybody actually has.
     Reply
    wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! was starred wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! was unstarred
    Image of wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!
    08/08/09

    @wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: Also, Giz... on an unrelated note, you guys should do an article on how utterly fucked Nokia is about pushing out global updates for devices these days. The last E71 update never 'officially' hit the NAM models (despite being listed as available on NSU, and the program being willing to try and install it) and certain of the device models still haven't received the PRIOR (months-old) firmware update, and the only difference is that those models shipped with some pre-installed Electronic Arts mobile games. Nokia seemingly just FORGETS entire model numbers when they release updates, so thousands of honest customers are forced to use third-party applications to forge the device's model number in order to receive quasi-workable firmware updates for other models... resulting in a metric ton of weird, non-reproducible errors for a lot of people who just want a working handset and the ability to enjoy a current software version.

    THIS is the hell of Symbian in 2009. I think you guys ought to write it up. Once you look into it, I think you'll find it makes Apple's trouble with the App Store look pretty tame (and let's not even begin to get into Ovi. UGH!)

    Cheers, and keep up the good work!
     Reply
    Edited by wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! at 08/08/09 8:14 PM wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! was starred wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! was unstarred
    Image of Cyber_Dude Cyber_Dude
    08/07/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    I'd like to think that I know how push works. :-) And if you want to break it down there are basically two kinds of push:
    - Some variant of open IP connection or what is called "PDP Context" in telecom lingo
    - SMS
    That's it, there is literally no other ways to do it.
    You can of course trigger something else with the SMS, like downloading an MMS for example. Or downloading an email, or whatever you want.
    SMS messages are delivered through a narrow band control channel that the phone needs to have in order to stay attached to the network.
    On an open IP connection you can use a standard like IMAP Idle or invent something of your own like Active Sync. The downside with an open IP connection is that it increases current consumption significantly. This is because it needs to tell the network to keep the "PDP Context" open.
    SMS Push is superior in every way compared to any open IP connection. The only drawback is that you have to be an operator to use it otherwise it gets really expensive.
     Reply
    matt buchanan promoted this comment Cyber_Dude was starred Cyber_Dude was unstarred
    Image of 13-Year-Old Gadget Blogger 13-Year-Old Gadget Blogger
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    Great article. I was beginning to wonder what push meant!
     Reply
    debbyherbenick promoted this comment 13-Year-Old Gadget Blogger was starred 13-Year-Old Gadget Blogger was unstarred
    Image of debbyherbenick debbyherbenick
    08/07/09

    @laptopmemo: I thought I knew what push meant but I liked these extra details that made me see how little I knew to begin with. Good stuff.
     Reply
    debbyherbenick was starred debbyherbenick was unstarred
    Image of aquajaws aquajaws
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    Eventually as mobile technology gets faster and more efficient, so processing bandwidth and power supply aren't as big of an issue, push/pull won't matter nearly as much because we'll be able to set pull email to check every minute like many of us do on our desktops now. Outlook isn't push email, except for many with exchange server. Its usually set to ping the server asking if there are new messages almost constantly so you download them almost as soon as they are there. This works fine there as computers now have enough processing bandwidth to do it and power is rarely an issue for most computers.
     Reply
    SysRq promoted this comment aquajaws was starred aquajaws was unstarred
    Image of (Starman) Starman (Starman) Starman
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    IMAP is one of the best things I've discovered about GMail this year, actually. It totally makes desktop mail clients much more useful for me, because now I don't have to log back in to mark everything as read.
     Reply
    (Starman) Starman was starred (Starman) Starman was unstarred
    Image of SneakerFiend SneakerFiend
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    Nice article Giz. I love it when you guys explain things to make the world a less confusing thing to navigate xP
    Nah but seriously thanks. I still say Microsoft FTW! ^_^ Apple's push sounds more like a baby's push compared to the complex and secure RIM's push and then it seems more efficient than Microsoft's way (energy wise)
     Reply
    Wilson Rothman promoted this comment SneakerFiend was starred SneakerFiend was unstarred
    Image of Rurouni Rurouni
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    I want a push e-mail system that doesn't need constant data connection (even if it just idling)... like SMS or MMS but only for e-mail. Maybe some operator can work this out with current hardware by sending a hint to the phone that trigger the download. I hope next gen (4G?) data (ip?) based connection can also be an advantage to an always on data connection devices in terms of power consumption.
     Reply
    Wilson Rothman promoted this comment Rurouni was starred Rurouni was unstarred
    Image of aquajaws aquajaws
    08/06/09

    @Rurouni: Um...SMS/MMS doesn't need a constant data connection? Your cellphone is ALWAYS connected to a data-stream of some kind. Its just not the same kind of data connection. Email and push notifications goes through the data connection that connects to the internet. Cellphone calls and SMS go through the data connection to the cellular network. Thats why if you don't have a signal, you don't get calls or messages...because you're not connected. Same concept, different data connection though if you consider SMS/MMS and cellphone calls a form of data.
    Right now without that connection to some kind of network (data, voice, cellular, whatever) push isn't possible because there would be no way for the push service to know where to push it to.
     Reply
    SysRq promoted this comment aquajaws was starred aquajaws was unstarred
    Image of Accelerata Accelerata
    08/06/09

    @Rurouni: when you talk about an "idle" connection, its just referring to the logical state of the connection on both sides. its not like a car, where idling means the engine is burning power. think of it like a like a hybrid where when you stop at an intersection, everything turns off until you start again. so these idle connections are exactly what you're asking for.
    the only power being burned is that the phone has to occasionally let the cellular network know where it is in order for the cellular network to know how to route data to it. that expenditure cannot be avoided for any mobile device.
    also, IP is a routing protocol, not a connection protocol. to have a reliable connection for delivering data, you need another protocol running on top of IP (nominally TCP these days). and both at already being used to send data to and from your cell phone, so you don't need to wait.
    4G is about the link and physical layers of the network stack and is independent of the network and transport layers. they just provide faster bit rates and/or latency changes, without affecting the connectivity running on top of it.
     Reply
    SysRq promoted this comment Accelerata was starred Accelerata was unstarred
    Image of Sean Harrington Sean Harrington
    08/06/09

    @Rurouni: And ActiveSync can actually be configured between WM6 and Exchange servers to send you an SMS when mail arrives. The nice part is that (at least on WM6 and later), the SMS never shows up in your SMS inbox. The OS deletes it and forces ActiveSync to hit the Exchange server to get your mail.
     Reply
    SysRq promoted this comment Sean Harrington was starred Sean Harrington was unstarred
    Image of Rurouni Rurouni
    08/06/09

    @Accelerata: Basically what I'm asking is I want to use push email but with the same power consumption as SMS. Right now, if I'm using push email (either with IMAP idle or exchange), even when I'm not receiving any email, my phone whone last a day in 3G and barely last a day in 2G. Not so when data connection isn't active. And the difference is kinda big... If data connection isn't constantly active (connected but idling), my phone can last for 2 days.
    @aquajaws: Yes, I know that SMS/MMS use data connection, and even in some phone they have setting to send SMS using gprs connection. But it's a lot more efficient in terms of power consumption compared to push email which need your data connection stay connected.
    And you do know that the phone need to 'dial' for data connection to connect, but voice and SMS/MMS is always on. I'm no expert on this stuff, but it seems that an all IP system like in 4G would make data connection to the internet more seamless than using 3G and probably can save some power in the process. Probably someone who is an expert in this stuff can enlighten me?
     Reply
    Rurouni was starred Rurouni was unstarred
    Image of Accelerata Accelerata
    08/07/09

    @Rurouni: the SMS/MMS is not really "always on" as a separate service. it just cheats. it piggy backs on the normal connection maintenance packets in space that is normally not used. that's where the character limit for SMS messages comes from (its the size of the buffer its stealing for a data payload). the space its using wasn't actually designed for SMS, they just hacked it in there.
    the implementation of push support on the network is probably suboptimal at the moment, but could be fixed in software without changing cellular protocols (basically, it sounds like they're doing the push updates separate from the normal connection sync packets, which really isn't strictly necessary. most likely, service providers are dragging their feet implementing proper support in their networks)
    the positive side of the current push implementation is that it allows you to switch from cellular to wifi networks relatively seamlessly. if the push notifications were strictly tied to the cellular protocol, you wouldn't be able to do that. although that's really mostly an advantage for the cellular service providers and not the end users since it just takes the load off their data networks.
     Reply
    Accelerata was starred Accelerata was unstarred
    Image of krztov krztov
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    OR get an android/winmo phone where you dont need to have push messages for things like messengers, because theyre actually open :)
     Reply
    krztov was starred krztov was unstarred
    Image of Accelerata Accelerata
    08/06/09

    @krztov: that makes no sense. having an open or closed platform has nothing to do with the technological issues surrounding having a moving computer endpoint. any mobile endpoint will have these issues regardless of the platform.
     Reply
    Accelerata was starred Accelerata was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    08/07/09

    @Accelerata: I...uh....I think he means that you don't need to use push because the app....is running? Maybe.
    I mean, that's still not exactly the point. But I think he's referring to the app being open as opposed to the platform being open.
    I...don't really get it either, though.
     Reply
    SysRq promoted this comment OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of Ridley Ridley
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    So everyone obsesses over push email and all it means is that you can get your email at most a minute faster and sometimes, better batterly life than IMAP?
     Reply
    Wilson Rothman promoted this comment Ridley was starred Ridley was unstarred
    Image of Accelerata Accelerata
    08/06/09

    @Optimus-Prime: its better battery life and reduced load on the cellular data network. constant unnecessary polling by mobile devices lowers the performance of the network for everyone. basically, traditional network routing protocols were designed around the idea of relatively static network configurations, an assumption mobile devices toss on its ear. these push configurations are sort of an ad hoc solution. really, a formal protocol design would be better, but it will take a while to happen.
     Reply
    SysRq promoted this comment Accelerata was starred Accelerata was unstarred
    Image of iwishiwasjeff iwishiwasjeff
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    I dont like apple being so pushy.
     Reply
    mattdonders promoted this comment iwishiwasjeff was starred iwishiwasjeff was unstarred
    Image of ColonelGentleman ColonelGentleman
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    Thanks for this. I love when Giz does these recap features about crap we talk about here all the time. It really makes sure all us geeks with different backgrounds are on the same page.
     Reply
    Wilson Rothman promoted this comment ColonelGentleman was starred ColonelGentleman was unstarred
    Image of PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: PurpleMonkeyDishwasher:
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    It's interesting because parallels can be drawn with push and pull systems as applied to manufacturing environments as well. Push systems crank out product based on a quota such as a forecast whereas pull systems are solely based on customer demand. In a manufacturing environment, pull systems are ideal and minimize costs. It looks as though push is the way to go for email etc. though.
     Reply
    Wilson Rothman promoted this comment PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: was starred PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    Hey Ponies! did you push this to your IT guys?
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of OMG! Ponies! OMG! Ponies!
    08/06/09

    @Nick: is a peelin': The IT Guy fixed one problem and then created another and then claimed that the problem is me.
    Push email from an Exchange server onto an iPhone works great. Then, the IT Guy bollixed something with the networked document scanner so that now, I get an email notification of every document scanned. According to the IT Guy, I must have somehow altered a subscription that I don't have the ability to alter.
    Consultants are great. There's no money in fixing the problem but you can make a fortune if you prolong it.
     Reply
    OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred
    Image of GitEmSteveDave_My Brute Dojo CDIAFIFE GitEmSteveDave_My Brute Dojo CDIAFIFE
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    All to All, By My Mustard!
    Push Harder!
    Push Faster!
    Push Longer!
     Reply
    Edited by GitEmSteveDave_My Brute Dojo CDIAFIFE at 08/06/09 3:59 PM GitEmSteveDave_My Brute Dojo CDIAFIFE was starred GitEmSteveDave_My Brute Dojo CDIAFIFE was unstarred
    Image of (Starman) Starman (Starman) Starman
    08/06/09

    @GitEmSteveDave: ♥'sSummermodo:
    Push Better!
    Push Stronger!
     Reply
    (Starman) Starman was starred (Starman) Starman was unstarred
    Image of appletoad appletoad
    08/06/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: How Push Works
    I remember working at Apple when MobileMe came out and it was "Push for the rest of us." Then the 'ITS NOT PUSH!!' argument came and we were told under no circumstances to call it push until they fixed it. It was to be called 'wireless sync'.
     Reply
    matt buchanan promoted this comment appletoad was starred appletoad was unstarred
    Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion

Login

Enter your username and password.

Please enter a username.
Please enter your password.
logging in
Login via Facebook | Sign Up | Forgot Password?

Reset Password

Please enter your email address to have your password reset.

Please enter your email address.
Please enter a valid email address.
requesting password reset

Register

Registering will give you a user profile and the ability to add other users as friends. To become a commenter, however, you need to audition.

Want to know more? Consult the Comment FAQ and legal terms.

Please enter a username.
Please enter a password.
Please confirm your password.
Passwords are not identical.
Please enter a valid email address.
registration sent, waiting for reply

Submit Your Comment

You don't need to login to comment. Just enter your email address below.

See how your address will be displayed in the Comment FAQ.

Please enter a valid email address.
Please enter a valid email address.
logging in

Login with your Facebook or Gizmodo account.

Sign up here.



  • Archives
  • About
  • Advertising
  • Legal
  • Help
  • Report a Bug
  • FAQ
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.