But for all the people saying that this is the best costume ever, I saw a Girls Gone Wild Camera Crew at my college this year on halloween night. I don't think big head man can quite top those guys... #3dfacecostume
@_rt¹⁰⁰: A real camera crew, or guys in GGW crew costumes? Because GGW Halloween costumes would be hilariously clever... especially if the cameras and equipment were fake, and they were carrying huge wads of obviously fake cash. #3dfacecostume
@met2art: I'm honestly not sure. I think it was a costume, but these guys were holding real-looking cameras and one dude even had a boom mic. Who knows.
@andrelix: Because if they are obviously fake cameras, and fake cash, it works as a Halloween costume joke. If the cameras are real, you're likely to be called out as a pervy scam artist (if, of course, any ladies fall for your clever ruse). Fine line. #3dfacecostume
So... they are not being forced to do this for no money... they chose to do the work for exposure instead of cash. I dont get how this makes google evil. If the artists dont want to work for no money, then dont.
@Geisrud - MS150 fundraising time!: There is no legal issue here. This is simply a matter of Google acting like a dick to weasel free work by leveraging "exposure" as if that were good enough.
If they were soliciting work from complete unknowns, that would make sense, but they are trying this on experienced artists who've done global campaigns for major multinational corporations. It's insulting, and shows how ignorant Google can be when it comes to anything other than coding.
I don't mean to be a kill joy but I'm sure there are many people out there that would love to have their work attached to a Google product for the exposure.
I would definitely do it for free. From a promotional point of view, you couldn't really pay for a better spot.
I suppose you have to look at it as either a promotional tool or a piece of work from a client (which you'd obviously want paying for)
@hanspecans: @JazzBri: @soulfinger: @saigumi: WHO THE FUCK CARES IF HE'S A WORKING ARTIST OR NOT. Anyone taking the stance that the artist should be payed for free promotion because they're professionals is an idiot. They have the right to refuse to deal with Google because the people that will are in a line about a million artist long. This is FUCKING CAPITALISM, not evil. No one is being forced to do anything against their will here.
This shit reeks of the same slimy strong-arming tactic used by unions to destroy GM. If a company isn't allowed to stay competitive and is forced to become an open wallet for "the people" then only destruction waits for it. This is a fucking slippery slope people. The only ones being greedy here are the artists because they want there cake and they feel it's only right to get it for free as well as eating it too.
Google doesn't think the skins are worth paying for, so they don't buy them. No matter how great you think the art is, it doesn't matter if there's no buyer. I don't see what the problem is.
On an unrelated note, I give great sensual massages, but when I offer my services to Google headquarters, they kick me out and refuse to pay. But, I'm raved about by other independent and unrelated third parties!
@Hello Mister Walrus: The difference is that Google is actively soliciting the creation of these skins. I can only assume that your erotic massage is more for your benefit than Google's :)
@JazzBri: What's the difference if Google solicited the free art? The artists can just decline to contribute at no cost to themselves. Google is not forcing the artists to work. Why don't they just take their art to Google's competitors who will pay?
@Hello Mister Walrus: Google is really doing anything "wrong" exactly... but it's a bit of a sleazy tactic. They are specifically soliciting artwork from high-profile artists in exhcnage for... absolutely nothing. The artists in question have already gained exposure and done major works. Google is trying to leverage their own brand in order to weasel free work to compete with the looks and styles of Apple and Microsoft.
It's insulting and does speak to Google's lack of understanding of good design and art, and how to properly deal with creative people and the public, effectively. I like Google products, but as tech companies go, they have Asperger's.
@markterry: So, not hiring "high profile" designers means that Google lacks an understanding of good design? I don't understand where this argument is going. No one is being forced to work for Google - if they don't like the offer, then they can take their art elsewhere.
@Hello Mister Walrus: I know where you come from with this, but it makes it no less right to not pay a bag boy at wal-mart because if they were doing their job well they get tipped.
Sure, they could go to the little guy and actually get paid, but the model and precedent would be set and it would make it more acceptable to pay worthy bag boys less or nothing based on the same reasoning that the world´s largest company feels the work they do is not worth paying for.
Once enough people get paid nothing, their worth is exactly that. Have you ever put on your resume how much you got paid on your last job? The reason why is because your personal worth is metered by you. If the last job you had was a CEO, then why do you want minimum wage all of a sudden?
The up-and-comer is also hurt by this sort of behavior, because if they are ¨getting paid¨ in notoriety, not only are they taking a non-paying job, now, it makes it ok next time to ¨farm talent.¨ When will they get paid for their work and make it a viable career? What happens to the career artists that never got a job that was taken for free? Does this all become a hobby?
Google is a user in this case. This is the reason for labor laws. Minimum wage is there because your work isn´t worth money to certain people, and everyone deserves to get paid for a job that they do.
Also, internet money never paid bills. So what if you made the skin on my browser? Do I know who designed all of my icons, wallpaper, anything? No. Glad someone did. It was a job well done, and I´m glad they got paid for it. If I could get paid for what I liked doing, it would be a wonderful day in my life. I would never want to force the person who has acheived that to have to take a 9-5er like mine. (especially if the reason was not for a lack of jobs, but for a lack of respect and pay.)
@CYST!: You seem unfamiliar with the concepts of supply and demand. If art is indeed valuable, then someone will pay for it, even if it is not Google. If Google demands art for a lower price than the market, then Google loses. If no one is willing to pay for the art, this implies that it is not commercially valuable to begin with.
What you are saying is that Google should charitably contribute to up and coming artists. While this would be laudable, it does not mean that Google should be required to do so. Google is a for-profit business, and should rationally only pay for services whose costs are less than or equal to their marginal benefits. This is the basis of our entire economic system, in addition to Google's operations.
@Hello Mister Walrus: I think you've lost perspective. Imagine, for example, if Giz stopped paying commenters for commenting on articles. Do you think anyone would continue commenting without that weekly paycheck?
@Hello Mister Walrus: Exactly, it's not as if Google said they were going to pay X for the art then reneged after delivery. They never said they would pay for the art. She should have looked at the deal more closely before working on it. Our company knows what the pay for a job will be before we do the work why should she be any different.
@joelydanger: It's not like Google's products are ugly right now. I don't cringe at the sight of GMail - in fact, I think that Google has some of the best user interfaces on the internet. Obviously, Google does not have a problem competing with other big companies. I really don't see how not investing in art that it doesn't need will affect its competitiveness.
@CYST!: Are you really comparing this to slavery? There is no longer any point to talking to you...
@Hello Mister Walrus: Beauty is subjective, but its widely known that Google's own designers are crippled to the 1's and 0's approach that it takes to design. There have been a few posts on Giz even.
If it didn't need the art then it wouldn't be asking designers to do it. They just don't value the visual aspect as much as functionality. Its sad really, because the two go hand in hand. But they're too OCD to relax and take a daring design decision. Imagine if they did.
@joelydanger: The question here is whether Google mistreated or mishandled these artists in any way. They did not lie, they did not force, they did not deceive or coerce, so no, they did not. They made what they felt was a fair offer and this a story about people who disagreed. Surely there are others who will feel that it is fair, though, and they will be delighted that these more established artists were too rich to horn in on their "exposure."
What you're discussing is Google's design standards. I believe they're fine, but I could probably be persuaded to think they need to do more, and that "more" will cost money. Doesn't matter; that's a completely separate issue from what this article is discussing.
@HonusWScruggs: I was responding to when my esteemed colleague Hello Mister Walrus said that he didn't think g-mail was ugly. I only brought it up to explain how google generally doesn't sweat over the design.
Yes other people will think its fair and will take what they can get, but they're only undermining themselves by supporting a dangerous habit that google can make of this. I'm not saying they're being evil at all, but in my opinion when this stuff is being used for the face of chrome, they should pay these people.
@joelydanger: I consider your view that this type of offer, while tempting, is ultimately bad for the artists to be valuable. If that is indeed true, it is a point that belongs here.
However, when it comes to business, I don't feel comfortable making normative statements (with words like "should") where two parties have come to a mutual agreement.
@HonusWScruggs: Yes, that was the point I was making. I believe in any profession a person who does their work well should be rewarded just the same.
And you're right, I shouldn't use the word "should". They have come to a mutual agreement and its wrong to break it. I guess there is a certain amount expected from such a company to put forth in the terms beforehand.
Artists don't get paid - otherwise, why would they be starving? Nope, if they get paid they'll just be graphic designers. It's a choice they have to make.
@Steve since the @ is not working again. Add to my description the frustration of having to log back in his favorite site every time every time he goes to a new page on it.
To really represent a migraine, there should be white hot shards of glass piercing the little guys skull, ear splitting screams, flashes of light, intense pressure and many tears flying out of the machine for days at a time.
11/03/09
But for all the people saying that this is the best costume ever, I saw a Girls Gone Wild Camera Crew at my college this year on halloween night. I don't think big head man can quite top those guys... #3dfacecostume
11/03/09
11/03/09
extraordinary costume idea however #3dfacecostume
11/03/09
;) #3dfacecostume
11/03/09
11/03/09
11/03/09
09/10/09
06/15/09
06/15/09
06/15/09
06/15/09
yeah, people need to get paid, but if there's no contract saying "We'll pay your for X", then don't expect compensation.
06/15/09
If they were soliciting work from complete unknowns, that would make sense, but they are trying this on experienced artists who've done global campaigns for major multinational corporations. It's insulting, and shows how ignorant Google can be when it comes to anything other than coding.
I think everyone missed the point of the article.
06/15/09
06/15/09
I would definitely do it for free. From a promotional point of view, you couldn't really pay for a better spot.
I suppose you have to look at it as either a promotional tool or a piece of work from a client (which you'd obviously want paying for)
06/15/09
06/15/09
This shit reeks of the same slimy strong-arming tactic used by unions to destroy GM. If a company isn't allowed to stay competitive and is forced to become an open wallet for "the people" then only destruction waits for it. This is a fucking slippery slope people. The only ones being greedy here are the artists because they want there cake and they feel it's only right to get it for free as well as eating it too.
06/15/09
On an unrelated note, I give great sensual massages, but when I offer my services to Google headquarters, they kick me out and refuse to pay. But, I'm raved about by other independent and unrelated third parties!
06/15/09
06/15/09
06/15/09
It's insulting and does speak to Google's lack of understanding of good design and art, and how to properly deal with creative people and the public, effectively. I like Google products, but as tech companies go, they have Asperger's.
06/15/09
06/15/09
Sure, they could go to the little guy and actually get paid, but the model and precedent would be set and it would make it more acceptable to pay worthy bag boys less or nothing based on the same reasoning that the world´s largest company feels the work they do is not worth paying for.
Once enough people get paid nothing, their worth is exactly that. Have you ever put on your resume how much you got paid on your last job? The reason why is because your personal worth is metered by you. If the last job you had was a CEO, then why do you want minimum wage all of a sudden?
The up-and-comer is also hurt by this sort of behavior, because if they are ¨getting paid¨ in notoriety, not only are they taking a non-paying job, now, it makes it ok next time to ¨farm talent.¨ When will they get paid for their work and make it a viable career? What happens to the career artists that never got a job that was taken for free? Does this all become a hobby?
Google is a user in this case. This is the reason for labor laws. Minimum wage is there because your work isn´t worth money to certain people, and everyone deserves to get paid for a job that they do.
Also, internet money never paid bills. So what if you made the skin on my browser? Do I know who designed all of my icons, wallpaper, anything? No. Glad someone did. It was a job well done, and I´m glad they got paid for it. If I could get paid for what I liked doing, it would be a wonderful day in my life. I would never want to force the person who has acheived that to have to take a 9-5er like mine. (especially if the reason was not for a lack of jobs, but for a lack of respect and pay.)
//end rant.// sorry.
06/15/09
What you are saying is that Google should charitably contribute to up and coming artists. While this would be laudable, it does not mean that Google should be required to do so. Google is a for-profit business, and should rationally only pay for services whose costs are less than or equal to their marginal benefits. This is the basis of our entire economic system, in addition to Google's operations.
06/15/09
;P
06/15/09
06/15/09
@joelydanger: It's not like Google's products are ugly right now. I don't cringe at the sight of GMail - in fact, I think that Google has some of the best user interfaces on the internet. Obviously, Google does not have a problem competing with other big companies. I really don't see how not investing in art that it doesn't need will affect its competitiveness.
@CYST!: Are you really comparing this to slavery? There is no longer any point to talking to you...
06/15/09
If it didn't need the art then it wouldn't be asking designers to do it. They just don't value the visual aspect as much as functionality. Its sad really, because the two go hand in hand. But they're too OCD to relax and take a daring design decision. Imagine if they did.
06/15/09
What you're discussing is Google's design standards. I believe they're fine, but I could probably be persuaded to think they need to do more, and that "more" will cost money. Doesn't matter; that's a completely separate issue from what this article is discussing.
06/15/09
Yes other people will think its fair and will take what they can get, but they're only undermining themselves by supporting a dangerous habit that google can make of this. I'm not saying they're being evil at all, but in my opinion when this stuff is being used for the face of chrome, they should pay these people.
06/15/09
However, when it comes to business, I don't feel comfortable making normative statements (with words like "should") where two parties have come to a mutual agreement.
06/15/09
And you're right, I shouldn't use the word "should". They have come to a mutual agreement and its wrong to break it. I guess there is a certain amount expected from such a company to put forth in the terms beforehand.
06/15/09
@tenazrael: You too.
06/15/09
04/21/09
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04/21/09
He sounds a lot like my god.