Gizmodo 
Enter your username and password.
Tip your editors:
tips@gizmodo.com
Editorial Director:
Brian Lam | Email | Twitter
Editor:
Jason Chen
Email | AIM | Twitter
Features Editor:
Wilson Rothman
Email | Twitter
Senior Contributing Editors:
Jesus Diaz
Email | AIM | Twitter
Mark Wilson, Reviews
Email | AIM | Twitter
Contributing Editors:
Matt Buchanan
Email | AIM | Twitter
Adam Frucci
Email | Twitter
Sean Fallon
Email | Twitter
Jack Loftus
Email | Twitter
John Herrman
Email | Twitter
Dan Nosowitz
Email
Chris Mascari
Email
Danny Allen
Email | Twitter
Rosa Golijan
Email | Twitter
Chris Jacob
Email
Columnist:
Brendan I. Koerner
Interns:
Don Nguyen
Email
Kyle VanHemert
Email
Comment Intern:
Nick Ellenoff | Email
Comment Account Questions:
Comments@gizmodo.com
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
10/21/09
They should be a comparable price to other laptops since they no longer have an edge on hardware quality. They are nice computers though, often with well thought out features - just not justifiable by the traditional cost. #appletax
10/21/09
Many Mac users are recovering Windows users that have years -- decades, even -- of Windows experience through 3.1, 2000, XP, even Vista (and some of us even remember using DOS).
I'm a Mac user today, and I am one of those with decades of Windows (and some CPM, TRS-80, C-64 and Amiga) experience. I know what it is like to USE Windows -- at home, at work, in major installations. Can you Windows defenders say that about the Mac that you vilify and attack?
You can compare prices and specs all you want. What it comes down to for me is:
1. Which one WORKS better for MY needs?
2. What can I AFFORD?
Number 1 above is number one for a reason. If I have to sit and wait for Windows to finish doing whatever it is doing for minutes at a time it is no use to me. If I have to confront driver errors and layers and layers of 'protection' just to stay operating every day, it JUST ISN'T WORTH IT.
For those of you that haven't ACTUALLY USED a Mac: just shut up. You are don't know what you are talking about.
For those that HAVE used a Mac -- I mean REALLY used it, given it enough time to get over your prejudice, fear and disorientation -- and it still doesn't work for you: STOP USING IT.
If you can't afford to take the chance then go right ahead and stay where you are. But STFU about Macs if you have never used them in real life situations for any length of time.
People: these are COMPUTERS, not a religion or our country or our family we are talking about. Get some perspective.
Sheesh.
#appletax
10/21/09
OSX runs the same shit Windows does (by and large), but you pay extra for slower hardware and that is that.
If the design and multi-touch (talking laptops) is enough to push you into paying the Apple tax (OSX, multi-touch, design, and getting a MB referb was enough reason for me), good for you, but not everyone can justify spending that kind of money on a PC that does the same stuff every other one does.
The actual computer itself doesn't matter because Apple makes PCs. #appletax
10/21/09
Trust me, if OS X works for you, fine. That's nice. But it doesn't "just work". It breaks. Often. And I have to fix it, and Apple likes to hide errors as much as possible, which is fine for the user if the error isn't important, not so fine for the guy trying to FIX the errors because they are. Needless to say, I've gone over the past two years from admiring OS X, to absolutely despising its guts. I would take Windows in a heartbeat. But I absolutely CAN. NOT. STAND people who tell me that OS X is 'better' and that if you disagree you are wrong. Because it's better. It Just Works. And the people who tell me this are often the ones whose machines I am trying TO GET TO WORK. Not just that, but AS I AM TRYING TO GET IT TO WORK.
Oh, and I have two Apple boxes at work, one at home, to 'show my credentials'. That said:
Yes. There is an Apple Tax. It comes in two forms:
1) That feature you don't really care about? YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT. Mac's limited line means that even if you have no need for that feature which adds $100 to the cost, you have to get it if you want a Mac. Or, if you have a need for a feature not in the lower lines, you have to bump up to a much more expensive line.
2) "Line refreshes". When you buy a computer from anybody else, they're constantly trying to get the price as low as possible, while still making a profit... so when component parts come down in price, the price of the PC drops. Apple only drops the price occasionally, and then only when they refresh a line. And usually, they just update the hardware and keep the price the same. So I'm not surprised Apples are competitive now, the real question will be how overpriced are they in 6 months, when PCs will have experienced many small price drops, while the Apple remains identically priced.
Both are quite real ways in which Apples are more expensive. #appletax
10/21/09
While some Windows users are out of date with their attacks though, Apple themselves are stuck in the mid-90s with their attack ads - sometimes worse. It not only shoots down their credibility, but being a long-time computer technician it makes me feel embarrassed to use a Mac in public lest people think I'm one of the clueless who think Macs are utterly infallible, never crash, never have viruses, can't be hacked, etc.
But what it comes down to for me between them is that now that we're well into the "Internet age," an OSX and WinXP system are about comparable - the Windows machine is a bit more hands-on and workable if you want to do something specific or troubleshoot a serious OS problem, and the Mac is more "comfortable" to use, and has convenient features like anywhere zooming, or the dashboard (I'm not a fan of Windows Vista/7 desktop widgets - I'd rather have a dashboard for them...) #appletax
10/20/09
A mac is a machine conceived from "head to toe" to work properly. I NEVER had to worry about a driver, an anti-virus, network configuration, dual-display configuration... i mean - EVER. Most PCs users just dont know how this feels - to have a computer that simply works how it is supposed to work.
Yes, it is more expensive. But keep in mind that it is not just about more RAM or a better trackpad. Concepts that are in OSX for many years now are starting to catch up on Windows 7, who is mostly about a redesign of what was a terrible UI and usage of ram for a long time. OSX already had this in previous versions and in snow leopard it just got better.
The whole "mac" experience is just... better. But hey, if you cant afford it, or you think this kind of headache that youre going to have for a year or 2 with your computer is worthy, buy a PC. To play GAAAAAAMES. (BTW, I play games in a PS3. Way better than a PC for that, and cheaper). #appletax
10/21/09
10/21/09
I also have PCs around me, and god, I see the pain. 6 to 6 months you have to take it to maintenance because it is bloated with viruses, dlls get corrupted, things crash and sometimes you need reinstall everything.
Of course. Mac is more expensive and haves less users around. So everything is made to work primarely on a PC. But when it is mac-compatible, it is painless. #appletax
10/21/09
10/21/09
:) #appletax
10/21/09
10/21/09
And no not everyone knows that. A large number of people still think that Apple makes a different product completely.
10/21/09
You're saying that Apple computers magically switched becoming "PCs" when they changed the architecture of the processors they were running? That's weak. The difference has always been the OS, not the hardware. In fact, before they changed processors, they were already using the same ram, the same PCI cards, the same hard drives, the same optical drives, the same USB devices...
Apple DOES make a different product entirely. It's called OS X. It runs on PCs built by Apple. These PCs tend to have higher build quality than the machines of their competitors: Dell, HP, Sony, Toshiba, Etc... They also tend to offer hardware features not found on other machines: multitouch trackpad, backlit keyboard, magsafe power connector, LED backlighting, unibody construction, 7 hour battery, Etc...
It's preposterous to imply that before they changed just one thing, the CPU itself, Apple was not building PCs but now that the CPU is manufactured by Intel Apple are building "PCs"
Your statement isn't true and wouldn't mean anything even if it were true. #appletax
10/22/09
10/20/09
once you use one, all others just suck. my .02 #appletax
10/21/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
Before I go on. Don't even take my word for anything, go right now and do this yourself.
Go to Apple.com, and make a MacBook Pro 15 inch. Do whatever you wish with it. For me I maxed out the specs trying to see what I could make on a averagely size notebook. (Hint: Apples doesn't give you many choices... sigh.. simplicity eh?)
Go to Dell.com, and make a Studio XPS 16 (it can has a 15.4 screen btw). Now match the specs of what you made with the Macbook.
So, lets take what I made.
MBP: 3.06 Ghz Core 2 Duo
8GB 1066Mhz DDR3 Sdram
256GB solid-state drive
SuperDrive 8x (DVD-RW, etc)
15.4 inch, 1440 x 900 LED lit screen.
Battery 73 watt hours non-removable
512MB graphics card
Integrated Audio
Built in Stereo Speakers
Price: $3,849.00
Studio XPS: 3.06 Ghz Core 2 Duo
8GB 1066Mhz DDR3 Sdram
256GB solid-state drive
8X Slot Load (Dual Layer DVD+/-RW, etc)
15.4 inch, 1600 x 900 LED lit screen.
Battery 84 watt hours, removable
Second 9-cell 84 watt hour batter, Free
512MB graphics card
Soundblaster X-Fi Hi Def Audio
Built in Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
Price: $2,684
The difference: $985
Those are the same specs or better on the Dell Studio vs MBP, and you save $985... you could buy 3 netbooks with your purchase of the dell, and hand them out to the family. Seriously, you think there is no apple tax??
But doesn't take my word for it. Go, right now, do this yourself. See for yourself. What you'll find is not only you save a LOT of money, but you get a hell of a lot more choices with the Dell.
There are all sorts of things I could have chosen on the Dell that just aren't available on the MBP, and if I added them I would have still saved a shit ton of money. I could have gotten a full 1080p Display, a Blu-ray Burner, to watch and record Blu-rays. You can upgrade your graphics card to a better choice, which you have no choice in the matter on the MBP. Oh, look I guess I could have gotten a Core i7 (aka fastest Mobile processor in the world). I just made the first device that I clicked on, and didn't even go look around to see how much better the Dell could be, lets add those parts and see what we get.
Studio XPS upgrade: Core i7 820QM (fastest mobile processor in world)
16 inch 1920 x 1080 LED lit screen
Slot loading Blu-ray drive
1GB Ati radeon hd 4670
Same everything else
Price: 3,074
Still $775 cheaper! and with way better parts!! You now have a desktop powered beautiful full HD LED blu-ray playing machine, complete with a great graphics card, and energy efficient most power mobile processor in the world.... and you atill save enough money to buy some extra's to play with, maybe a a few netbooks, maybe an Xbox AND a PS3, or maybe just a another monitor, who knows, but at least you have the CHOICE too.
And there are are other small differences, like more USB ports of on the Dell, a full 8 in 1 memory card reader built in on the Dell so you don't have to get some extra dongle or whatever, because the MBP only has a SD reader. You have an express card slot on the Dell, with jack squat on MBP. That express card slot can do some fun things too, namely using it as a PCI-E out, for things like running desktop graphics cards, for hyper gaming. You get firewire on on both, but the MBP does have 800 instead of 400 on ilink port on the Dell. Though the Dell has a E-Sata port, which the MBP has none. The Dell also has HDMI, which the MBP can't even get with it's Mini DisplayPort adapter which is not include. Also not included with the MBP is a VGA port adapter, whereas the Dell just has a port built in, so no fuss with extra adapters you have to pay for. They both of cameras and mics built in. Both have Wireless N and Bluetooth 2.1. Both have Gigabit Ethernet. In fact there is basically only one thing that the Macbook Pro has over the dell, and it's the arguably better, bigger, and multitouch pad.
So if you really have to believe that there is no apple tax, and that everything equal, despite having a worse screen, worse processor, worse graphics card, no blu-ray support, worse audio, smaller battery with no options to replace it when it does run out, worse and less ports, less flash memory slots, no express port, no built in VGA, no HDMI at all, and far far far less options, all for costing several hundreds more, then yes your Macs are just the same, in a far worse, and more expensive way. So enjoy your trackpad and OSX, because on these machines it costs about $985 for them, so enjoy! #appletax
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/21/09
It's getting more interesting now though since Apple hardware is getting cheaper. #appletax
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/21/09
10/20/09
The tougher part of this is that the "Apple Tax" is what many argue is the reason Apple is not going against low priced systems - whether it be a $300 laptop or a $300 desktop. Apple just does not play that game because they cannot make a profit doing it.
Personally, I hate the term "Apple Tax" because it ignores that people want to pay more for an, arguably, better product. If it costs a hundred or so more, people are happy to pay it to avoid some of the hassles that come in the Windows world. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Arguing that the price difference does not exist is irrelevant to the core business philosophy that an Apple product is worth more. #appletax
10/20/09
Won't you ever learn? #appletax
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
i dont know why i wrote it in the past tense, because I still have it :P
The difference is, that all other laptops go on sale. In 2 months time, these laptops will be 30% cheaper, but Apple won't do anything to their price. #appletax
10/20/09
10/20/09
Asus models dont have model numbers on them or maybe I just cant find it. The closest thing I could find was the sparkle thing on Asus' website but its not the same thing :/
sorry I cant help you out. #appletax
10/20/09
10/20/09
Nice try Giz.
10/20/09
10/20/09
(stupid comment doublepost. Might as well put it to good use)
I have to agree to an extent as well, though as cheap as storage options are, Apple could really afford to just provide more as standard. RAM is fine for the most part, as OS X is not as hungry about memory, but with the laptops being sealed, it'd be a nice bone to throw.
10/20/09
Then you can just pick up a 4gb kit on crucial for $100, and sell off your 2 1gb on craigslist for $35. Then you've got yourself an upgraded Macbook for a little more than $60. #appletax
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
You can take that anecdotal piece of evidence for what it's worth. #appletax
10/20/09
Update: Free staples! Fuck yes!
10/20/09
@Kaiser-Machead: My friend, you need this to really *ahem* tie it all together. #appletax