When I used to have a neighbor, and didn't have a router, I would sometimes bum off their internet. (honestly, with their permission.)
They had a 6mb connection compared to my 8mb connection via Ethernet. Their connection was faster and more reliable most of the time. They had the same ISP. I looked into it, and it appears that they were f*cking with my bandwidth for no reason.
The internet in my area was down for about 50,000 people last night. This is one thing I hate about living in the semi-rural Midwest. My internet goes out at least once a month. My power also goes out about as frequently.
Other people having way faster internet saddens me. :(
I know I am going to get some shoes tossed my way, but I read this a bit differently than many here. There are three tiers of service listed: The ridiculously cheap and fast (Japan, South Korea, Finland, Sweden and France), the middle tier of reasonable speeds (Netherland through Italy), and the folks that have some catching up to do (come on, Greece - get it together!)
From my ludicrous perspective, America is doing "fine". Not great, not bad, but "fine" in the middle of the group. If our goal is to get into the top rung of speed and price, we are going to have to change a couple of things:
1. Geographic size. Notice that the five at the top could fit their land mass in Texas with room to spare. Clearly the answer is to move all 300 million people into the space that makes the best TexMex in the world.
2. Socialism kicks ass. Well, maybe not - but I believe (and yield to those with better knowledge than my understanding) that all of the top five help pay for that broadband connection through taxes. All we need is some socialist like Obama to lead the way and we can get a bill passed that would pay for this with China's money.
I am joking on both counts (I am not moving to Texas, I hate borrowing from anyone, and I like Obama), but it also points at what I believe are the potential solutions. We cannot shrink our country, so we are going to have to spend serious dollars by our government to offset the cost of building the infrastructure to make it to the top third. If we all had fiber to our homes (note the government helped roll out coax to every home in the early cable TV days), we could change our spot dramatically.
Ladies and gentleman of the Giz community, start tossing those shoes. I need some free shoes. #broadband
@Monty: I generally agree, the pop density seems like a no-brainer...but when I did the math, it didn't do much. Now I'll be the first to admit that just dividing by pop density probably doesn't properly account for the expenses of connecting large areas, but I thought it would be a decent approximation...yet Japan still scored above the US. #broadband
@Monty: How about we just try to structure tax and other regulations in such a way that companies are incentivized to invest in broadband infrastructure, and then also chill a bit and realize that not every little hamlet in the middle of Iowa NEEDS super fast pr)n downloads? #broadband
@curious-character: Japan is a small area that is divided by water. That is a smaller issue, in my opinion, then connecting homes with the huge distances we have in the United States. I have to assume Japan has some underwater cabling to solve that issue relatively simply, but we would have to run long sets of cable to more than a handful of locations to pull it off here. Just my ridiculous guess, mind you. #broadband
@Canoehead: We may be, essentially, saying the same thing - either way, the government has to give money or stop taking it to pay for the expansion. #broadband
@Monty: I'd prefer they just give tax breaks or other favorable treatment, and maybe make regulatory changes to make it easier for multiple providers to compete in the same area. That said, I don't trust this Congress' ability to even properly draft a tax provision - unless you think that the stimulus should be funding the purchase of multiple golf carts.
@Canoehead: Either way the government would still have to step in. One of the major reasons why Korea and Japan are in the top 2 spots. A lot of people not like the fact that government would get involved, but they did a splendid job at our highway system. #broadband
@Canoehead: Yes times has changed, but without the involvement of the government the consumers are getting the short stick by the ISPs. If the taxpayers pay for the infrastructure, then we have a right to at least have a say. #broadband
@Sneaky0: Uh-huh - more government control of content delivery - sounds like the RIAA's lobbyists in DC will be the big winners. And what happens when the party in power uses this as leverage to promote their "values"? #broadband
@Gundem: You may not like the healthcare system, but the US in the borthplace of most new gadgets and procedures - which is one of the reasons that healhtcare spending is so high. #broadband
@Canoehead: United States has one of the worst healthcare systems in modern World as rated by the WHO. France is number 1 for average lifespan and health of its citizens and they pay less. Your statement is false on so many levels. #broadband
@Joshua Berkstresser: France delivers very good average healthcare, though with limits and rationing that most Americans would find intolerable. They don't do a fraction of the pioneering and invention done in the US, instead waiting for others to do the breakthroughs. France also has a population that is overall much healthier for a number of "lifestyle" reasons - hell just look and Michale Moore and think how much his impending massive coronary is going to cost. France also has a significantly lower murder rate, which also contributes to lifespan, but is not really a healthcare issue. Finally, France does not have millions of millions of, sometimes illegal, recent arrivals from third world countries. #broadband
@Canoehead: don't forget that france is also powered by cheap and CLEAN nuclear power. if our freaking gov would get it together....
yes the US has the best health care, which is why the rich from other countries come here for major surguries. france you have to get on a 2-week+ waiting list for your normal doctor to treat a cold, flue, etc. the definition of "better" i guess determines how you look at it (cheaper? quality? rationing?) whatever... #broadband
@Canoehead: "though with limits and rationing" no, first the French is a semi-private Healthcare, there is no limits, about pioneering, technology in orthopedics or face reconstruction, same applies for the discovery of AIDS ate the same time of their US counterpart, can they do better sure, can we do as much as they do ... I wish.
"l much healthier for a number of "lifestyle" reasons" they drink wine and smoke cigarettes.
About illegals immigrants they do have the same problem.
To get back on the subject the real problem is that France is a free market regarding ISP, this is not the case here.
This sole explanation is why they have better service than we do.
@Canoehead: Actually, yes, France does have issues with illegal immigrants, except they come from the middle east and from Africa. Only taxpayers can take advantage of French health care/insurance.
Our (U.S.) federal government subsidizes corn farmers, which makes high fructose corn syrup as cheap as it is harmful. Have you tried to find foods without hfcs? It's not easy and it's certainly not cheap. Because France doesn't have those subsidies, junk foods (including soda) are very expensive and the higher price is a strong argument for healthier food choices. Better food choices (and actually slowing down to taste and appreciate the food) help to keep them away from the obesity death spiral that so many of us find ourselves fighting. #broadband
@Canoehead: there is no rationing in France. No waiting lists either. There are such things in the US, however, unless you have gold-plated coverage, such as what congresspeople get. #broadband
@Canoehead: there is no rationing in France, nor is there any waiting list. There are such things in the US, however (unless you have senator-class gold plated health insurance, which 95% of the pop. doesn't get).
The fact that many promising new treatments come from the US has more to do with venture capital availability than anything else. And we do have quite a bit of high end research; to wit, the first hand transplant or the first face transplant were done here. #broadband
@otus: This is complete and utter bullshit. There is NO waiting list. To go to my doctor ... I just walk in, no appointment necessary between 3PM and 6PM.
@Robert Fultz: I do agree about the high price of soda, which is why I make it my policy to drink only wine and beer while in France (it helps that I am then on vacation). #broadband
@rbawbpx7: The public part of the system has all kinds of rationing. Yes, there is also a private part, but that is now what Obama et al are arguing for. Yes they drink (healthy red wine) and smoke now - but 30-40 years ago, Americans actually smoked and drank more - those people are now seniors and those seniors are significantly lowering the lifespan stats. They have some illegals - but not to the same extent, and not sponging off the system like here.
At any rate, I like your idea that a freer ISP market would improve service - I'd love to see the regulatory changes necessary to make it easier for more competitors to enter the market. #broadband
@Nicolas Monnet: Of course there is rationing - every system has it - whether it is a simple refusal to provide certain advances drugs or procedures, or a limit on operating room times. #broadband
@Nicolas Monnet: And how does that VC money get repaid - why is it a good investment? Because of the for-profit system, which also attracts top medical talent to practice and research. #broadband
@Canoehead: no, there is no rationing. If a treatment is available and deemed useful (i.e. demonstrably better than a cheaper alternative), it is available for everyone.
There are economies of scale in medicine: nothing is so rare those days, with the exception of transplantable organs obviously, that you can't make it available on a wide scale if needed.
The health care system negotiates with suppliers for a fair price; if said supplier wants to play hardball, they take the risk of alienating public opinion and, eventually, having lawmakers fix a price for them. #broadband
@Canoehead: you're extremely, very confused. There is for profit medicine here. Lots of it. Doctors don't work for free; nor are pharmaceutical compaanies.
It's just that they are not free to spend 1/3 of their income on advertising, which is almost completely verbotten for them (especially for prescription meds). There, instant 33% rebate on drug prices. #broadband
@Canoehead: you request an appointment. You get one. If that particular hospital is too busy to accommodate you soon enough ... you are free to go to any other one, public hospital or private clinic; you can also probably go to any other European hospital for that matter with a bit of paperwork.
And before you start calling this a "waiting list," no, it's not: there is no list with your name on it. And in any case it's no different from what you'd do in the US if you pay out of pocket. And entirely different from an HMO where there are actual waiting lists, with your name on it. #broadband
I decided to crunch the numbers myself to see how we do when adjusting for population density...not much better, really. From 15 to 10 and Canada is No. 1!
OK, so the US is the wealthiest country in the world, and we are the most technologically advanced (Japan is close), but yet, we are 15th in average overall speed. Can someone explain that to me? Is it because our population is higher, and therefore, they have so spread the bandwidth around so much? #broadband
@skeelo58: Part of this is due to the fact that just because someone opts for a 3mb connection doesn't mean they don't have 28mb+ available (I had thought these results were on speed used not max speed - I'm not 100% sure on that).
You also have the issue in that it would be impossible (financially) for a company to provide 20mb+ to people that live in the middle of nowhere.
The cities I've lived in all had over 20mb available, while I know it's not that way all over the country, I don't know anyone that lives in a major city that can't get well over 5mb. I know they are out there, I just don't know of any first hand.
@skeelo58: How did you come to the conclusion that the US is the most technologically advanced?
Remember the US is a country where people still mail back and forth pieces of paper (checks) to pay each other. Where card transactions are done with an easily-copied magnet stripe, and confirmed using easily-forged signatures. A country where the train network is a joke. Where the internet is slow. etc etc I could go on and on. #broadband
@skeelo58: It has a lot to do with the size of the countries. How much more money do you think it costs to outfit the United States with coast to coast fiber connections than Japan? #broadband
@Curves: I think I found your issue. Your connection seems to be inserting extraneous whitespace between characters. That's probably taking up a lot of bandwidth. Maybe you should look into that. #broadband
To be fair, all those countries with cheap fast internet connections don't have to worry about the sheer size of the broadband infrastructure since they have much much smaller population and populated land compared to the US.
Canada and Australia are not better and I don't even see Russia or China on those charts. (probably due to the lack of data)
@Pessimippopotamus: Yes, this is a good argument for rural places in America, but not so much for major cities. From personal experience, I can tell you that our major cities do not fare much better than the average. #broadband
@Pessimippopotamus: Completely agree - i live in canada and no one i know has a connection above 5megs - and thats only hte advertized speed - they're usually hovering around 1 or 2 megs. As for proce, we're one of the highest charged per speed in the developed world (alternate recent study put us just ahead of mexico and poland). I pay about $45 a month and have an advertised high speed adsl service - normally aroungd 2 megs, but advertised at 12... not very good. #broadband
@fopkins, @ripfire: That's exactly the problem: most major cities in the US are several hundred miles apart, and it doesn't help that there are five to ten times as many of them as smaller countries.
Even if all of the greater SF, LA, NY, or DC areas were fully networked, connecting to each other would require the backbone to consist of high-bandwidth infrastructure with thousands and thousands of miles of cable.
@Aetius: you "think" it costs? meaning...you don't pay for it...meaning you still live with your parents...meaning your parents have a basement...meaning there are rats in basements...meaning rats are delicious...meaning please ship me some rats...meaning i will eat them...meaning you probably already knew what i was getting at #broadband
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They had a 6mb connection compared to my 8mb connection via Ethernet. Their connection was faster and more reliable most of the time. They had the same ISP. I looked into it, and it appears that they were f*cking with my bandwidth for no reason.
The internet in my area was down for about 50,000 people last night. This is one thing I hate about living in the semi-rural Midwest. My internet goes out at least once a month. My power also goes out about as frequently.
Other people having way faster internet saddens me. :(
10/26/09
From my ludicrous perspective, America is doing "fine". Not great, not bad, but "fine" in the middle of the group. If our goal is to get into the top rung of speed and price, we are going to have to change a couple of things:
1. Geographic size. Notice that the five at the top could fit their land mass in Texas with room to spare. Clearly the answer is to move all 300 million people into the space that makes the best TexMex in the world.
2. Socialism kicks ass. Well, maybe not - but I believe (and yield to those with better knowledge than my understanding) that all of the top five help pay for that broadband connection through taxes. All we need is some socialist like Obama to lead the way and we can get a bill passed that would pay for this with China's money.
I am joking on both counts (I am not moving to Texas, I hate borrowing from anyone, and I like Obama), but it also points at what I believe are the potential solutions. We cannot shrink our country, so we are going to have to spend serious dollars by our government to offset the cost of building the infrastructure to make it to the top third. If we all had fiber to our homes (note the government helped roll out coax to every home in the early cable TV days), we could change our spot dramatically.
Ladies and gentleman of the Giz community, start tossing those shoes. I need some free shoes. #broadband
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[www.lvrj.com] #broadband
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Cars? we get most dumbed down version
Gadgets? we get the shit version long after other markets.
Healthca...errr....industry? do i need to say more?
Internet? slowest of all.
Forza? a week after Europeans.
*sigh* #broadband
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yes the US has the best health care, which is why the rich from other countries come here for major surguries. france you have to get on a 2-week+ waiting list for your normal doctor to treat a cold, flue, etc. the definition of "better" i guess determines how you look at it (cheaper? quality? rationing?) whatever... #broadband
10/26/09
"l much healthier for a number of "lifestyle" reasons" they drink wine and smoke cigarettes.
About illegals immigrants they do have the same problem.
To get back on the subject the real problem is that France is a free market regarding ISP, this is not the case here.
This sole explanation is why they have better service than we do.
10/26/09
Our (U.S.) federal government subsidizes corn farmers, which makes high fructose corn syrup as cheap as it is harmful. Have you tried to find foods without hfcs? It's not easy and it's certainly not cheap. Because France doesn't have those subsidies, junk foods (including soda) are very expensive and the higher price is a strong argument for healthier food choices. Better food choices (and actually slowing down to taste and appreciate the food) help to keep them away from the obesity death spiral that so many of us find ourselves fighting. #broadband
10/27/09
10/27/09
The fact that many promising new treatments come from the US has more to do with venture capital availability than anything else. And we do have quite a bit of high end research; to wit, the first hand transplant or the first face transplant were done here. #broadband
10/27/09
You should be ashamed of yourself. #broadband
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At any rate, I like your idea that a freer ISP market would improve service - I'd love to see the regulatory changes necessary to make it easier for more competitors to enter the market. #broadband
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There are economies of scale in medicine: nothing is so rare those days, with the exception of transplantable organs obviously, that you can't make it available on a wide scale if needed.
The health care system negotiates with suppliers for a fair price; if said supplier wants to play hardball, they take the risk of alienating public opinion and, eventually, having lawmakers fix a price for them. #broadband
10/27/09
It's just that they are not free to spend 1/3 of their income on advertising, which is almost completely verbotten for them (especially for prescription meds). There, instant 33% rebate on drug prices. #broadband
10/27/09
And before you start calling this a "waiting list," no, it's not: there is no list with your name on it. And in any case it's no different from what you'd do in the US if you pay out of pocket. And entirely different from an HMO where there are actual waiting lists, with your name on it. #broadband
10/26/09
I decided to crunch the numbers myself to see how we do when adjusting for population density...not much better, really. From 15 to 10 and Canada is No. 1!
source data:
[www.itif.org]
[en.wikipedia.org] #broadband
10/26/09
can we really be the best country in the world without the fastest internet? #broadband
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You also have the issue in that it would be impossible (financially) for a company to provide 20mb+ to people that live in the middle of nowhere.
The cities I've lived in all had over 20mb available, while I know it's not that way all over the country, I don't know anyone that lives in a major city that can't get well over 5mb. I know they are out there, I just don't know of any first hand.
10/26/09
Remember the US is a country where people still mail back and forth pieces of paper (checks) to pay each other. Where card transactions are done with an easily-copied magnet stripe, and confirmed using easily-forged signatures. A country where the train network is a joke. Where the internet is slow. etc etc I could go on and on. #broadband
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Besides, none of those things you mentioned make living in America worse.
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Canada and Australia are not better and I don't even see Russia or China on those charts. (probably due to the lack of data)
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Even if all of the greater SF, LA, NY, or DC areas were fully networked, connecting to each other would require the backbone to consist of high-bandwidth infrastructure with thousands and thousands of miles of cable.
10/26/09
Japan Fail. #broadband
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