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New York, 7:54 PM
Wed Dec 16
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of ShyamalikaCadkey ShyamalikaCadkey
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    Matt, I just want to point out (as a 7D owner) that if you're shooting jpeg and have noise reduction set to 'standard', you're going to get the smoothness and loss of detail that you're talking about. If you shoot raw and do the noise reduction in post-processing (check out the lightroom 3 beta) you'll do better than the Nikon.

    I don't shoot jpeg at all, so having used both cameras, I was a little mystified by your noise reduction comment. I think it only applies to more casual shooters who aren't doing any post-processing.
     Reply
    matt buchanan promoted this comment ShyamalikaCadkey was starred ShyamalikaCadkey was unstarred
    Image of matt buchanan matt buchanan
    11/10/09

    @ShyamalikaCadkey: All of the shots in the comparison gallery were shot in RAW, for both cams, as were all of the other samples, aside from the gadgets. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    matt buchanan was starred matt buchanan was unstarred
    Image of m_flo m_flo
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    I upgraded from a D300 to a D300s, then switched completely from Nikon to Canon with the 7D. The still images from the 7D are only *marginally* noisier than the D300, and if I downsample the 7D images to 12 MP they look equal (noise-wise).

    But the 7D also shoots 18 MP at 8 fps (practically forever in JPEG mode) without a bulky battery grip. The video mode is YEARS ahead of Nikon, and is capable of producing stunning, film-like video (with the right picture style settings and post-processing).

    The advantages I'd say the D300s have over the Canon are build quality (slightly more tank-like) and tweakability. You can fiddle with just about every camera setting parameter with Nikon's extensive straight-forward menu system. The 7D has decent tweakability, but not as much as the D300s.

    I'm not loyal to either brand, and I feel this allows me to choose the best system for my needs now and in the future (I also don't have much invested in lenses – yet). #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment m_flo was starred m_flo was unstarred
    Image of MrBlahBlah MrBlahBlah
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    I too am shocked by how good the noise levels are given the sensor #canoneos7d
     Reply
    MrBlahBlah was starred MrBlahBlah was unstarred
    Image of briancao briancao
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    Noooo, there are no signs of Nikon favorism here. Just like never any signs of Apple fanboyism either.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards approved this comment briancao was starred briancao was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/10/09

    @briancao: They're pretty damn unbiased about cameras most of the time. The fact of the matter is, Nikon makes a much better still camera at this time than Canon, while Canon makes a better DSLR for capturing video. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of Costner Costner
    11/10/09

    @Nathan Obbards: Nikon makes a "much better still camera" than Canon?

    Let me guess... Chevy makes a "much better automobile" than Ford and Mac makes a "much better computer" than any PC maker right?

    To make such a bold claim is nonsense. They both have their strengths, they both have their weaknesses, and they both leapfrog one another on a regular basis. Nikon may lead in some segments while Canon leads in the other, but unless you assume that everyone on the planet uses their equipment in the same exact manner in which you do, you cannot say what is "much better".

    Go ask professional sports photographers if they feel Nikon makes a "much better" camera and you are likely going to get hit by a gigantic white L series lens upside your head... but hey, don't let that stop you from making unsupported fanboy statements or anything. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment Costner was starred Costner was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/10/09

    @Costner: In terms of image quality, they make a better still camera. The reason that most photographers (especially sports) stayed with Canon is that they had already invested tens of thousands into Canon lenses, which are phenomenal lenses. Even so, there were quite a few pros switched systems when the D3 came out because of its superior performance. Any one of them would have told you after that D3 came out that Nikon's product was superior to Canon's for the most part. Granted, there were areas where the difference was not great enough to warrant a change, particularly sports, but there were Canon users who began to migrate back to Nikon, something that hasn't been seen since the F5 and F6 when Nikon made the best film camera in the world.

    In terms of noise, low light functionality, image quality, and unprocessed, from camera images, Nikon makes a better camera system. Canon definitely leads in terms of video, has more lenses, and their AF is damn near even with Nikon at this moment as both have snappy AF systems.

    Is it a broad assertion to make that Nikon makes a much better camera? Yes, I will take that critique whole heartedly, but it is not unfair to say that they make a better camera system in general than Canon right now and that Nikon is forcing Canon to innovate and not take its market dominance for granted anymore in terms of still imaging. Conversely, Canon is making Nikon innovate in terms of video in DSLRs. Considering that the future of photojournalism is in taking stills alongside video, that's not an insignificant fact.

    *Nikon owner who worked professionally with Canon #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of fryhole fryhole
    11/10/09

    @Costner: I think it's going a little far to equate his statement to the chevy/mac examples. Yes, those distinctive white L's dominate the press box at sporting events, but that doesn't take away the fact that in general Nikon's are probably more useful in most situations from a purely photographic standpoint.

    Low light sensitivity and lower megapixel counts coupled with generally better metering and focus point handling can be more useful in many cases than the requisite strengths of Canon systems - high resolution, and fast and long glass.

    Of course depending on what you Canon may be worlds more useful to you than Nikon, but it isn't as biased as saying "macpc" to claim that Nikon makes a better camera, since in most of the photography-spec-columns the D3 will win out. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment fryhole was starred fryhole was unstarred
    Image of Vanus Vanus
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    Showing a 100% zoom in the test shots is useless without saying what lens was used. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment Vanus was starred Vanus was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/10/09

    @Vanus: They're shot at the same ISO, same f/stop, and same shutter speed. I think that's about as comparable as you can get, especially since the images are nearly identical. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of jetRink jetRink
    11/10/09

    @Vanus: He means that the photo is cropped, not scaled, so you can see pixel for pixel what came out of the camera. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    matt buchanan promoted this comment jetRink was starred jetRink was unstarred
    Image of Vanus Vanus
    11/10/09

    @Nathan Obbards: I wasn't talking about the ISO comparisons. The sample images from just the 7D. Some of them have 100% zooms on them to show sharpness, but it doesn't make sense to without saying what lens is used. You can take a photo with the EF-S kit lens, then throw an EF L lens with the same focal range, take the same exact photo, and get different results when you zoom in that far. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Vanus was starred Vanus was unstarred
    Image of fryhole fryhole
    11/10/09

    @Nathan Obbards: You can't compare DSLR's from different manufacturers without knowing the glass involed. For all we know, the D300 could be sporting a beater kit lens while the 7D is wielding high level L-quality glass. You'll see the difference in glass long before you can tell the camera's themselves apart. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment fryhole was starred fryhole was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/10/09

    @fryhole: @Vanus: I can guarantee you that if it's shooting at f/2.0 the glass isn't bad glass on either camera. The Nikon is probably ED glass, Nikon's top of the line glass and the Canon glass is likely to be top of the line consumer glass or an L series lens. No kit lens I know of shoots an f/2, all are f/3.5 or greater.

    Having shot with both Nikon and Canon, I can tell you that the main difference you would see is in some softness, haloing, and poor bokeh on their low end lenses (though this is not always true). In this test case, I'd actually be more concerned that the Canon has the worse glass on it, though I highly doubt that it does. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of fryhole fryhole
    11/10/09

    @Nathan Obbards: You're right, they're definitely not kit lenses...just saw an f/1.2 represented up there.

    It would be nice to know exactly WHAT lenses were used though. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    fryhole was starred fryhole was unstarred
    Image of BostonPimpDaddy2 BostonPimpDaddy2
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    I have the first 5D. After owning it for quite some time, I kills me to go to a non-full frame camera. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment BostonPimpDaddy2 was starred BostonPimpDaddy2 was unstarred
    Image of DPYu DPYu
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    Just splittin' hairs here, but I believe the Nikon APS-C sensor size is slightly larger than the Canon APS-C sensor. This information is available via wiki.
     Reply
    matt buchanan promoted this comment DPYu was starred DPYu was unstarred
    Image of matt buchanan matt buchanan
    11/10/09

    @davidpyu002: Yes, it's marginally bigger. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    matt buchanan was starred matt buchanan was unstarred
    Image of Gene Gene
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    It's incredible that per-pixel noise on the 7D is even comparable to the D300s. With 50% more pixels, this will mean a much better noise profile when printed/scaled to the same size (something that pixel-peepers, including Gizmodo apparently, often forgets about.) #canoneos7d
     Reply
    matt buchanan promoted this comment Gene was starred Gene was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    11/10/09

    @Gene: Not necessarily. Pixel pitch has a lot to do with the quality once you start cramming more and more pixels onto a sensor. Smaller pixel pitch can lead to a decrease in sharpness and a decrease in quality at higher ISOs. If you have many noisy pixels rather than a few, an image can look much worse, even with a higher megapixel rating. This can be exacerbated if the grain feels like digital grain rather than film grain. Not only that, but at 12MP vs 18MP, it would take a rather large image before you started to notice a difference. You could easily print an 11x17 with both cameras and not notice a difference outside of sharpness. One of the things Nikon has been doing really well recently is creating cameras that have natural feeling noise like seen in film. Unlike early digital noise, it is often pleasant in pictures. My personal preference would be to have sharp images with natural feeling noise to soft images with ''less'' noise.

    That said, the 7D looks like another great camera from Canon and I'm always excited to see what Nikon and Canon will come out with next. It just seems Nikon is winning the still side and Canon the video side.
     Reply
    Edited by Nathan Obbards at 11/10/09 11:09 AM Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of Elliot Powell Elliot Powell
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    I take offense to these constant implications that Nikon had made a camera that was somehow superior to any of the Canon offerings.... Shame on you, shame shame shame..... #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Homerjay is utterly alone. promoted this comment Elliot Powell was starred Elliot Powell was unstarred
    Image of SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!! SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!!
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    OMFG, its a real CANON compared to my 500D.

    The real question here is...does it still have a jello effect? #canoneos7d
     Reply
    SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!! was starred SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!! was unstarred
    Image of Rurouni Rurouni
    11/10/09

    @SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!!: According to the reviews I read, yes... but it's less noticeable compared to 5DMK2. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    SewerShark: LOOK BEHIND YOU, A THREE HEADED MONKEY!!! promoted this comment Rurouni was starred Rurouni was unstarred
    Image of Mike Mike
    11/10/09

    In reply to Canon 7D Review
    It looks great, but I'm loyal to Nikon. Cue the war. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    Mike was starred Mike was unstarred
    Image of kitsuneconundrum kitsuneconundrum
    11/10/09

    @Mike: we should be teaming up against the sony alphas instead. #canoneos7d
     Reply
    TheLostVikings R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment kitsuneconundrum was starred kitsuneconundrum was unstarred
    Image of electronymous electronymous
    09/01/09

    In reply to Canon 7D DSLR First Hands On: 18 Megapixels, 24FPS Full HD Video for $1900
    Here's a good article on APS-C vs. Full Frame for those like me who are unfamiliar.

    [photo.net]
     Reply
    matt buchanan promoted this comment electronymous was starred electronymous was unstarred
    Image of andrelix andrelix
    09/01/09

    In reply to Canon 7D DSLR First Hands On: 18 Megapixels, 24FPS Full HD Video for $1900
    Looks like my 5D Mark II is getting a baby brother!!!
     Reply
    Eugenia promoted this comment andrelix was starred andrelix was unstarred
    Image of Wraith Wraith
    09/01/09

    In reply to Canon 7D DSLR First Hands On: 18 Megapixels, 24FPS Full HD Video for $1900
    I'm most intrigued by the LCD overlay in the viewfinder, that has some cool functions and I would definitely appreciate the 1.0x mag and 100% coverage. Did anyone see in the press release the size of the spot metering circle? Canon typically has a rather large circle compared to Nikon and others, and I would love to see it come down a % point or two.

    Also, who REALLY wants their DSLR to be a video camera? I agree with Eugenia that this seems to be the best iteration of DSLR video, but why do we keep insisting on trying to cram video into our DSLRs? The only people who can really use this are videographers who are trying to get a large sensor on the cheap, but who would be far better served to save their pennies and get a more professional rig. I would dearly love Canon (and the other camera makers) to focus on making their cameras the best cameras for PHOTOGRAPHERS and not one that is only good for photographers, and kinda good for videographers. If they really want to do video for the semi-pro video guys, perhaps they should work some more on their camcorders.

    Oh, and for MrThunderfield, according to rumors, this is going to replace the xxD line. From here on out, they can just do Mk II, III, IV, yadda, yadda, from here on out on the 1, 5, and 7 lines instead of upping the number every time.
     Reply
    Bokusatsu_Tenshi promoted this comment matt buchanan approved this comment Wraith was starred Wraith was unstarred
    Image of Bokusatsu_Tenshi Bokusatsu_Tenshi
    09/01/09

    @Wraith: Why would anyone want their cellphones to have mp3 player, camera and radio function? Why, oh why?

    But that comparison is bad. There are tons of amateur videographers making use of this, and getting results "saving some pennies to get a more profissional rig" won't help.

    Because "some pennies" isn't an accurate description of "double the price or even more".

    Also, convergence and convenience. Maybe you didn't notice, but there are several photographers making use of video functions to add to their work.

    It's a pretty nice bonus to throw in some short videos of social events when you're hired to compose an album or something.
     Reply
    Bokusatsu_Tenshi was starred Bokusatsu_Tenshi was unstarred
    Image of Canoehead Canoehead
    09/01/09

    In reply to Canon 7D DSLR First Hands On: 18 Megapixels, 24FPS Full HD Video for $1900
    I was really regretting my 5D MkII purchase until I saw that this thing is not full frame.

    I do love the 5D, but it could be improved, especially the weather-sealing - I managed to jam my shutter button with a single grain of sand. Also, an option to shoot 720p would be great - sometimes 1080 is just overkill.
     Reply
    Canoehead was starred Canoehead was unstarred
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