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New York, 10:55 AM
Thu Dec 10
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Coolmodo Coolmodo
    10:28 AM

    In reply to Nokia's New York and Chicago Flagship Stores Closing Too
    Sad news, I like Nokia, best phones I had.
     Reply
    Coolmodo was starred Coolmodo was unstarred
    Image of Mikestan Mikestan
    09:30 AM

    In reply to Nokia's New York and Chicago Flagship Stores Closing Too
    Hahahaha I never even knew there was a Nokia store in NYC.
     Reply
    Mikestan was starred Mikestan was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    07:17 AM

    In reply to Nokia's New York and Chicago Flagship Stores Closing Too
    Maybe the Palm store is hiring.
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    05:27 AM

    In reply to Nokia's New York and Chicago Flagship Stores Closing Too
    Didn't you guys already report this?
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of Kat Hannaford Kat Hannaford
    05:47 AM

    @Cash907Censored: Yep, we reported on the London store closing - as mentioned in the post.
     Reply
    Kat Hannaford was starred Kat Hannaford was unstarred
    Image of Cash907Censored Cash907Censored
    06:18 AM

    @Kat Hannaford: No, I meant this story specifically.
    Nevermind, I was thinking of Engadget. I get you guys mixed up sometimes.
     Reply
    Cash907Censored was starred Cash907Censored was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    12/09/09

    In reply to So Just Where Does All That iPhone Money Go?
    My apologies for going slightly off-topic, but did anyone else look closely at the percentage numbers between 2008 and 2009 (3Q)? While Apple soared 4% (to 17%) in one year, Research In Motion (BlackBerry) actually grew 5% (to 21%) in the same period. No question that Apple is making much bigger bucks on their devices than those wireless Canucks, but it is interesting to me how they keep gaining market share even with all of the press focused on Cupertino. Perhaps if Apple finds a way to sell a device on Verizon their market share growth will finally match the BlackBerry, but right now they are still in a second-place growth category - and Android is just beginning to catch the eye of consumers. Looking forward to seeing what happens in 2010.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of medopal medopal
    12/09/09

    @Monty: not trying to be a fanboy here, but in my place "Dubai" the iPhone is pulling the BlackBerry with it in the success. All people when seeing the iPhone thinks yea why not to move to smartphone era. They check the data plans and end up buying BB. BB seems to cost less so thats why plans are better.
     Reply
    medopal was starred medopal was unstarred
    Image of Kerfudle has free , and ... Kerfudle has free , and ...
    12/09/09

    @medopal:
    who's worried about money in Dubai, you have friken palm tree islands.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment Kerfudle has free , and ... was starred Kerfudle has free , and ... was unstarred
    Image of djpaetkau djpaetkau
    12/09/09

    @Monty: I noticed that too, but consider that Apple is selling a single device on, in many countries, a single carrier. On the other hand, RIM is selling a large lineup of devices on nearly every carrier, which means that they can access every wireless customer out there, where Apple is limited only to customers on a certain carrier. (Yes, customers can switch carriers to get the iPhone, but many smartphones are used for business customers, which may have contracts with only one carrier, so that isn't possible.) Thus for Apple to gain that much marketshare given their much smaller base of possible customers, a 4% growth is comparatively quite huge. To assume all other things equal, if Apple had the same possible customer base as RIM, their growth numbers could more than double.
     Reply
    Monty approved this comment djpaetkau was starred djpaetkau was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    12/09/09

    @djpaetkau: Understood, but Research In Motion has been around for over a decade now, I believe. For them to continue to have growth (ignoring market share) larger than Apple is remarkable, regardless of the number of devices they are peddling.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of cryguy cryguy
    12/09/09

    @Monty: RIM continuing growth is not that remarkable when you account for what medopal just said about how the iPhone is pulling Blackberry with it in success. In other words, RIM is benefiting from a boost in smartphone interest.
     Reply
    Monty promoted this comment cryguy was starred cryguy was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    10:07 AM

    @cryguy: Businesses are buying more BlackBerry models because of the iPhone? Sorry, I am not positive about businesses, but I am not buying it. Consumer smart phone knowledge is increasing due to the iPhone and I suspect Android will benefit. However, the BlackBerry controls the business world and they have been on a continued growth pace for years now.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: PurpleMonkeyDishwasher:
    12/09/09

    In reply to So Just Where Does All That iPhone Money Go?
    Was anyone else surprised that the 16GB flash memory was the most expensive component at $24??
     Reply
    PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: was starred PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: was unstarred
    Image of macpatrik macpatrik
    12/09/09

    @PurpleMonkeyDishwasher:: Count me in.
     Reply
    macpatrik was starred macpatrik was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    12/09/09

    In reply to So Just Where Does All That iPhone Money Go?
    Ok, here's what I want to know. If the cost of an iPhone (and I'm assuming many other high-price smartphones can take up almost half of the price of a data plan....would one be able to pay the full price of a phone up front and get that amount off of the data plan?

    Sometimes it's easier to justify one $500 purchase than a promised series of 24 $30 purchases.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of firehunter5 firehunter5
    12/09/09

    @OCEntertainment: Most of the fuctionality of the phone is data. It would be stripping it of everything that makes it an amazing product
     Reply
    OCEntertainment promoted this comment firehunter5 was starred firehunter5 was unstarred
    Image of AmphetamineCrown AmphetamineCrown
    12/09/09

    @OCEntertainment: I think the answer is that, since your plan costs aren't going to change, every two years you need to buy another subsidized phone and sell it on e*Bay.
     Reply
    AmphetamineCrown was starred AmphetamineCrown was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    12/09/09

    @firehunter5: I'm not sure you're understanding me.

    The article says there was a price hike in data plans to cover the cost of a phone subsidy (because folks won't buy a smartphone at $500, but they will at $200). This takes the monthly data plan cost from $15 to $30 (not accurate numbers). But lets say I had the full $500 on hand for the unsubsidized phone costs. Could I buy that phone and see a decreased price in data plan? If I gave them all of that cost up front (so now 100% of my data plan money is going to them, rather than partially to the phone manufacturer), could I pay $15-20 for my data plan, rather than the full $30?

    My guess is they would not be ok with this. But I'm holding out hope to be pleasantly surprised.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of firehunter5 firehunter5
    12/09/09

    @OCEntertainment: I see your view. I then point out the articles flaw in describing the fact any smartphone (i.e. blackberry, windows mobile, iphone, etc) require the more expensive plan due to the much larger data usage related to the use of such devices. iPhone users on average use 4 times the data then any other phones. I would love a cheaper data plan...despite what the article says, its more use than cost recovery.
     Reply
    firehunter5 was starred firehunter5 was unstarred
    Image of justinpe justinpe
    12/09/09

    @OCEntertainment:
    That's how it should be, but I don't believe you can buy an iPhone without buying a data plan (even if the phone is unsubsidized). It is the same way with other carriers and particular devices. The only advantage you get is not having a contract/ETF.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment promoted this comment justinpe was starred justinpe was unstarred
    Image of AmphetamineCrown AmphetamineCrown
    12/09/09

    @OCEntertainment: I completely understand your point. I'm kind of boggled why no one else does...
     Reply
    AmphetamineCrown was starred AmphetamineCrown was unstarred
    Image of Caeruleas Caeruleas
    12/09/09

    @OCEntertainment: I guess T-Mobile's ad campaign isn't working all that well:

    [www.t-mobile.com]

    T-Mo's new service plans is exactly this. The full price of the phone upfront, lower monthly rates. Individual unlimited talk/text/data for $79.99.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment promoted this comment Caeruleas was starred Caeruleas was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    12/09/09

    @Caeruleas: See, this is exactly what I want. While I'm probably in the minority, I'd rather have the option of leaving for a better option when and if a better solution comes along rather than having to wait another year and half to avoid having to pay a penalty because my service sucks (or because I simply choose to go somewhere else). If the other carriers offer this kind of option, I may start doing this once my current T-Mo contract is up.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    12/09/09

    @justinpe: I don't necessarily want no data plan. I would just like to offset the subsidy costs by paying more up front. Though, not having a contract/ETF is a pretty sweet prize. If all it took was simply paying the full unsubsidized price for a phone to lose the contract, I'd start taking that route in a heartbeat.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of justinpe justinpe
    12/09/09

    @OCEntertainment: Having no contract and termination fee is not very appealing to someone who is going to pay the same price for voice and data every month for the next 2 years anyway.

    I think it is actually cheaper to buy the phone with the discount, and then pay the early termination fee right away. $200 (8GB 3GS) + $175 (ETF) = $375 or $599 for an unsubsidized 8GB 3GS. Plus the ETF decreases each month that you have service.
     Reply
    justinpe was starred justinpe was unstarred
    Image of NorwoodIsMyHero NorwoodIsMyHero
    09:08 AM

    @OCEntertainment: Actually they would be if they thought this would happen often. They would much rather have your money sooner than later.

    However, I'm betting no normal consumer offers to do this, which means if you offer this the AT&T sales rep will blink at you and say "sorry sir we can't do that". I'd think that for the 3 people in the world that would want to do this AT&T wouldn't want to construct a seperately put together plan.

    And why would you want to that anyways? There's always a chance that your finances could be in a jam and you could need to break contract with AT&T, and tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine on their ETF, wrecked credit or not.

    It always makes more financial sense on a payment with no interest to put off paying whatever you can for as long as you can.
     Reply
    NorwoodIsMyHero was starred NorwoodIsMyHero was unstarred
    Image of cardboredbox cardboredbox
    12/09/09

    In reply to So Just Where Does All That iPhone Money Go?
    Am I the only one that finds itsdepressing that it costs only $6.50 to manufacture? That less than a hour of minimum wage here (US)
     Reply
    Edited by cardboredbox at 12/09/09 5:29 PM cardboredbox was starred cardboredbox was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    12/09/09

    @cardboredbox: While I'm sure there's no shortage of underpaid labor in the world to be depressed about, that's per unit. Unless it takes a real, live person an hour to put together one phone, chances are that number has little real reflection on what the worker is getting paid.

    Granted, some companies associated with Apple aren't the most reputable by our standards (*cough*Foxconn*cough*) but the number tells us very little.

    That being said, if that kind of number is indicative of typical manufacturing costs for gadgets, and if that number has any connection to actual people (as opposed to assembly machines), I'd gladly pay a multiple of that if it meant better treatment for the workers that put it together. I mean, seriously, at a $200 price point, who cares if it's ten extra bucks if it means someone else gets to see a better wage?

    *sigh*

    Then again, I'm an idealist. That could just as easily end up padding the accounts of manufacturing company owners leaving employees still in the dust.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of Lewin Edwards Lewin Edwards
    12/09/09

    @cardboredbox: Most of the assembly cost is not direct labor, but amortized cost of purchasing, setting up and maintaining the automatic production and test equipment.
     Reply
    NorwoodIsMyHero approved this comment Lewin Edwards was starred Lewin Edwards was unstarred
    Image of NorwoodIsMyHero NorwoodIsMyHero
    09:18 AM

    @OCEntertainment: Go ahead and pay those 3rd world employees more. They'll just end up with no job at all. You think I kid, but the cost of increased wages to labor very quickly becomes more expensive than the cost of automation when it comes to manufacturing.
     Reply
    NorwoodIsMyHero was starred NorwoodIsMyHero was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    In reply to So Just Where Does All That iPhone Money Go?
    So Apple makes ~$2.01 for every dollar spent on the production of the iPhone? Pretty big markup. I wonder what the R&D cost was per phone and what the profit margin looks like.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of jesuswhammy jesuswhammy
    12/09/09

    @Nathan Obbards: it doesn't really matter, since they basically make complete profit off of all the apps that are sold...don't they get like 30% or something?
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment jesuswhammy was starred jesuswhammy was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @jesuswhammy: When they actually pay the app maker.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of jesuswhammy jesuswhammy
    12/09/09

    @Nathan Obbards: very true...so if it's a free app, but they make money off of advertising, do they have to share a percentage of that profit (even though I'm sure it's very little) with Apple?
     Reply
    jesuswhammy was starred jesuswhammy was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @jesuswhammy: No clue.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of maven2k maven2k
    12/09/09

    In reply to Sorry Apple, I'm Buying Me One of Those xPhones!
    I'm surprised the thing doesn't have some kind of inter-dimensional power source since all that gigantic media has to go somewhere.
     Reply
    maven2k was starred maven2k was unstarred
    Image of Killjoy Killjoy
    12/09/09

    In reply to AT&T CEO Admits AT&T Sucks. Solution: Charge More Money.
    "The users are the problem" hints at quite the paradigm, doesn't it? Namely, that users exist for the benefit of the system. Personally I think systems exist for the benefit of their users, and a system that doesn't is of little use.
     Reply
    Killjoy was starred Killjoy was unstarred
    Image of Astigmatism Astigmatism
    12/09/09

    @Killjoy: ++
     Reply
    Astigmatism was starred Astigmatism was unstarred
    Image of Astigmatism Astigmatism
    12/09/09

    In reply to AT&T CEO Admits AT&T Sucks. Solution: Charge More Money.
    My 3G has had software fritzes recently, such that Apple generously offered me a new 3GS, for only the low, low, subsidized price, if only I'd sign a new 2-year contract with AT&T. No way in hell I took that offer. My contract is up on July 18; I'm counting down the days until I can ditch those assholes and switch back to Verizon.

    It's a pity as I adore the phone itself, but I'm sick as all hell of worrying about calls dropping, data service cuts, etc.; when I was on Verizon I always thought it sucked b/c of the limited phone selection, but the past 18 months have taught me and a couple million other people that it's the network that really counts. When Cingular ran those "fewest dropped calls" ads a couple years back, I remember thinking that I'd never experienced a dropped call in my life, and wondered if it was really a problem. Ironically, now that I'm with AT&T nee Cingular, it's a constant of my existence.

    I think AT&T is going to have a mass exodus next year, and hope they go broke because of it. But as a 27-year fan of Apple, I only hope they have a backup plan when they start to lose all of that business.
     Reply
    Astigmatism was starred Astigmatism was unstarred
    Image of Navin R Johnson Navin R Johnson
    12/09/09

    In reply to AT&T CEO Admits AT&T Sucks. Solution: Charge More Money.
    below the "highest-scoring provider."

    Which is...? Verizon?
     Reply
    Navin R Johnson was starred Navin R Johnson was unstarred
    Image of Slinkytech Slinkytech
    12/09/09

    In reply to AT&T CEO Admits AT&T Sucks. Solution: Charge More Money.
    "Can you hear me now? . . . What's that? Oh, I'm the verizon guy? . . . Hello, hello, AT&T? Are you there? I think they're call was just dropped. Guess they can't hear me now."
     Reply
    Slinkytech was starred Slinkytech was unstarred
    Image of not_a_virus.exe.vbs not_a_virus.exe.vbs
    12/09/09

    In reply to AT&T CEO Admits AT&T Sucks. Solution: Charge More Money.
    What have they been doing with the millions they get from iPhone sales and the monthly service?

    Weed?
     Reply
    not_a_virus.exe.vbs was starred not_a_virus.exe.vbs was unstarred
    Image of AmphetamineCrown AmphetamineCrown
    12/09/09

    @not_a_virus.exe.vbs: They invested $38B in their wireless network in the past two years, and planned investment for the next two is on par with that.
     Reply
    AmphetamineCrown was starred AmphetamineCrown was unstarred
    Image of NorwoodIsMyHero NorwoodIsMyHero
    12/09/09

    @not_a_virus.exe.vbs: It's probably relevant to remember that it took large mergers for Verizon to become as large as it is. Buying Alltel was key in vaulting Verizon into a commanding lead in the coverage battle.

    As AmphetamineCrown pointed out AT&T has invested heavily in the last two years in expanding and making better their coverage. If there was another provider interested in being bought out you can bet AT&T would be all over it.
     Reply
    NorwoodIsMyHero was starred NorwoodIsMyHero was unstarred
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