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Chris Jacob
@TrapOx: IIRC from my high school biology class, oxygen is more of a pollutant than CO2. So much so that the mitochondria of our cells actually are segregated from any oxygen because the oxygen kills it.
Of course, the money trail is much more powerful than facts while politicians are involved.
@SkipErnst: You mean I was incorrect because of this: "any substance, as certain chemicals or waste products, that renders the air, soil, water, or other natural resource harmful or unsuitable for a specific purpose"?
How exactly does that negate what I just said? CO2 is a natural part of the atmosphere, but in increased quantities it "renders the air... harmful or unsuitable."
Sorry, but if the science doesn't back you up, a dictionary probably won't either.
@comrade_leviathan: "rapidly increasing its ratio" is a very subjective term. The increase in CO2 in our atmosphere is a drop in the bucket, as is the temperature change we are going through. The Earth isn't in a bit of danger. It's gone through much greater temperature changes in the past. The only thing in danger is coastal cities. Let's be honest, we're not trying to save the planet, we're trying to save ourselves, and I don't feel we're in any real danger. The greatest historical rises in civiliation correlate with rises in average temperature because it's great for life.
So what if the water rises a few feet and we have to adapt? If you believe that humans evolved from the matter of the planet through natural means, then all this is just a natural byproduct of a natural byproduct and all part of the evolutions of the Earth. Why does everyone feel the need to enforce some imaginary status quo?
@SEDAGIVE?!: You are correct that our presumed "equilibrium" is simply based on the experience of the last 100,000 years, which doesn't necessarily mean it should or shouldn't be that way in the future. We are talking about our own future.
But the harm isn't just to waters rising at coastal cities. Rising temperatures affects the availability of fresh water, particularly in already drought-prone areas, it drastically impacts weather patterns which affects all life (not just human) and it increases drought cycles and reduces global food production.
You assume a lot in your "the Earth has always been here, it will always be here" mentality. I hope for your sake you're right, because if not then you've doomed us all. Good luck with that.
A blog comment has doomed us all? Why hasn't the world come to an extremely violent end already, considering the number of ignorant comments made on blogs every day for the past several years.
"Good luck with that."
Are you saying that when the IceCaps melt, London instantly freezes over and there is a massive instantaneous winter and Jake Gyllenhaal has to save me that you're not going to be stuck in the same apocalypse? What do you know that we don't? Why would you say good luck with that unless.... you're not actually on this planet!
@comrade_leviathan: The Earth bounced back splendidly from a collosal meteor impact, I think it will survive the SUV.
As for humans, of all the problems we cause ourselves, pollution is not the the most dire by far, IMO. Granted, there's no harm in going after all our issues, as they all deserve attention, but I think the alarmism afforded to climate change is disproportionate to its scientific grounding and potential for real damage in relation to other issues.
@SEDAGIVE?!: Yes, it did "bounce back" from the K-T impact, but not splendidly. It took hundreds of thousands of years for the planet to recover to its previous equilibrium. But humanity wouldn't have survived at all. We're not just looking at the Earth's ability to survive, or even life's ability to survive.
I'm curious what other potential damage you're referring to besides national, oil-based revenue. Green technology can totally revolutionize oil-based economies.
@comrade_leviathan: I don't think we should stick with coal and oil as our primary energy sources, so in that we certainly agree. I think we should work towards an energy source that is more efficient and plentiful. Where we likely disagree is our motivation. Everytime I hear "green" I want to cringe because it sounds to me like a trendy catch-phrase being tossed around. Too many of our opinions are based on what is popular and not what is logical.
Like the average person who is afraid of being eaten by a shark when swimming, but drives like an idiot on the highway, humans are subject to drama and alarmism. An honest look at "climate change" shows a phenomena which is a constant in the Earth's history and nothing to be afraid of, only something to adapt to. The intricacies of the climate are far beyond our current understanding, yet so many profess to know the source of its changes and the simultaneous "solution" as though one is needed. That's like a six year old admitting he doesn't know how an engine works but he can fix your broken down BMW for a hefty fee.
Protecting our environment is important, but let's not be gullible. When someone says that we need to be "carbon neutral" to save the Earth, but then says that if you can't do your part you can alleviate your responsibility by giving them money (ie carbon credits), they have just shown their true motivation.
@comrade_leviathan: We can argue this all day, but honestly I am not that concerned with Global Warming or Climate Change or CO2 pollution or whatever you want to call it.
I am far more concerned with our elected officials who will use the fear waged by the far wing proponents of *both* sides of any argument to create laws that control the general population and restrict freedom.
@SEDAGIVE?!: I agree completely (especially with the last line, although I'd suggest that carbon credits are a necessary evil to motivate businesses to be carbon-conscious). But I hesitate to throw out climate change warnings simply because 1) humans are prone to alarmism, and 2) the Earth has gone through climate change cycles before. Even if man's actions aren't directly driving climate change, they certainly aren't helping.
@comrade_leviathan: The real question in my mind is if being carbon conscious is what is needed. I simply do not believe carbon is the problem that it has been made out to be. I also believe the cap and trade tactics being discussed will be very detrimental to our economy and that's the last thing we need right about now.
@SkipErnst: Well, when the fate of our civilization hangs in the balance, I couldn't give a rat's ass about the economy.
But if the documented proof of the incredibly detrimental effects of oil and coal use to this planet as well as our own health isn't enough for you, then nothing will be.
In the immortal words of Jules Winfield "You wanna play blind man? Go walk with the shepherd. But me? My eyes are wide fucking open."
@comrade_leviathan: I said, "I simply do not believe carbon is the problem that it has been made out to be." and you followed up with, "the fate of our civilization hangs in the balance".
Hm. I think you just proved my point even more, so thanks for that.
In the immortal words of I-don't-know-who, "Follow the man who seeks the truth and run from the man who claims to have found it."
@SkipErnst: Reviewing may debates like this one and documentaries like "An Inconvenient Truth" I've changed my opinion on global warming and its related theories more than once, and become frustrated in doing so. Ultimately I've come to realize that instead of wasting time and resources sitting here arguing on who is right and wrong, we're better off putting our resources in reducing our overall impact on the planet .
Do I believe in the global warming theory? No. But do I believe in conservation and using our resources wisely? Yes, and I think that's something all sides can agree on.
Kidding aside, I do agree with you in principle that we are all stewards of the earth and its resources and we need to be careful with them. Part of that comes from our own personal responsibility (don't litter, reduce unneeded waste, etc).
Another part of it comes from our elected representatives who make laws that impact us all. Those laws are sometimes created based on public opinion and spirited debates can be a deciding factor. Is global warming theory one of those debates? I don't know.
Whether it is or not, I still do not plan to remain silent when I read comments from people that I strongly disagree with. We should always be willing to meet on the battlefield of ideas.
Emissions from data centers are the fastest-growing category in America's CO2 portfolio. I'd imagine the study was poorly constructed to represent the CO2 profile of the consumer alone without comparing the costs of lights on at stores vs. massive ventilation, cooling, UPS, etc. systems at the buildings that make all that internet shopping possible.
@lostarchitect: I imagine the amount of fuel consumed by aircraft and ground delivery vehicles is far less than the fuel consumed by the hundreds upon thousands of cars that drive out to the B&M spots.
@lostarchitect: I don't have access to the article since I'd need to subscribe, but from the table of contents it may have been accounted for in the section on transportation.
@Kaiser-Machead: Especially if people often have stuff shipped to their work as I do with anything expensive. The delivery trucks are already going to make the trip to my office. They go through this area every day since it's full of business parks. It is adding hardly anything to the current emissions.
@kampfy: True. According to the Treehugger article, they excluded that. However, there isn't likely a big increase in CO2 for Cyber Monday over any other Monday on the part of the data centers.
How does it compare, to say, holding a conference on Climate Change, and the carbon used to transport people there and write millions of stories about it in the paper?
@chulo_allen: Well, since he invented the internet, he has all that on his shoulders. It's almost as bad as John McCain and all the blackberries he helped create.
Just wanted to point out the Motorola Droid isn't free on Dell's site. At least I can't figure it out. I was all setup to make a contract, etc, but it's $120, not free.
The Walmart I was in in Southeast Missouri on Black Friday had numerous MO highway patrol officers AND a first-aid person on hand. I was kind of impressed.
Bought 3 (last 3 in store, actually) of those 20" Acer monitors at Best Buy for $79.99 each. One for my mom, two my cousin paid me back for for his wife and kid. Best Buy was crowded, but not so crazy that it was really annoying or anything.
Someone (yet to be determined who) will be selling me, er um, Santa, a PC in the next few days. (I am toying with them now by keeping a cart open at several sites and adding or taking away items as I see deals. One of them will evenutally see me click "Proceed to Check Out", but it will have to be a bloody deal to get my buck.
@SinisterBill prints in color on both sides: Thank you. I always look at the whole package deal and read the fine print in detail. Amazing stuff they hide in that tiny font. ;)
Seriously, I blame most of this on Managment, whether it be at the corporate or store level. They should have know there would be a dog pile for $50.00 Rockband SE(although a smart shopper could have gotten it online weeks ago with Rockband 2 included for nearly the same price). Walmart needs to make a policy where people are either put into a que or given a number and it's first come first serve. Old Navy gave out wrist bands for Lego Rockband and other stores had similar nationwide policies so why would the countries biggest retailer allow such chaos?
@boo_radley32: Because it is Walmart, they do not actually care about their employees. If they did, for starters, they would pay them rates that would be above the poverty line.
I've decided to participate in Black Friday next year.
I will take my camcorder (HD and better quality) and then proceed to film these idiots in hope that embarrassing them on the internet will prevent this type of behavior in the future.
Sigh, who am I kidding? At least it will make for good giz fodder!
@aprather: You should wear this bear suit, show up 24 hrs early to be first in line and have a sweet camera set up to record the havoc as you are pinned down on the bottom of the chaos.
12/14/09
12/14/09
Of course, the money trail is much more powerful than facts while politicians are involved.
12/14/09
12/14/09
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12/14/09
12/14/09
How exactly does that negate what I just said? CO2 is a natural part of the atmosphere, but in increased quantities it "renders the air... harmful or unsuitable."
Sorry, but if the science doesn't back you up, a dictionary probably won't either.
12/14/09
So what if the water rises a few feet and we have to adapt? If you believe that humans evolved from the matter of the planet through natural means, then all this is just a natural byproduct of a natural byproduct and all part of the evolutions of the Earth. Why does everyone feel the need to enforce some imaginary status quo?
12/14/09
But the harm isn't just to waters rising at coastal cities. Rising temperatures affects the availability of fresh water, particularly in already drought-prone areas, it drastically impacts weather patterns which affects all life (not just human) and it increases drought cycles and reduces global food production.
You assume a lot in your "the Earth has always been here, it will always be here" mentality. I hope for your sake you're right, because if not then you've doomed us all. Good luck with that.
12/14/09
A blog comment has doomed us all? Why hasn't the world come to an extremely violent end already, considering the number of ignorant comments made on blogs every day for the past several years.
"Good luck with that."
Are you saying that when the IceCaps melt, London instantly freezes over and there is a massive instantaneous winter and Jake Gyllenhaal has to save me that you're not going to be stuck in the same apocalypse? What do you know that we don't? Why would you say good luck with that unless.... you're not actually on this planet!
Busted you alien scum!
12/14/09
As for humans, of all the problems we cause ourselves, pollution is not the the most dire by far, IMO. Granted, there's no harm in going after all our issues, as they all deserve attention, but I think the alarmism afforded to climate change is disproportionate to its scientific grounding and potential for real damage in relation to other issues.
12/14/09
I'm curious what other potential damage you're referring to besides national, oil-based revenue. Green technology can totally revolutionize oil-based economies.
12/14/09
Like the average person who is afraid of being eaten by a shark when swimming, but drives like an idiot on the highway, humans are subject to drama and alarmism. An honest look at "climate change" shows a phenomena which is a constant in the Earth's history and nothing to be afraid of, only something to adapt to. The intricacies of the climate are far beyond our current understanding, yet so many profess to know the source of its changes and the simultaneous "solution" as though one is needed. That's like a six year old admitting he doesn't know how an engine works but he can fix your broken down BMW for a hefty fee.
Protecting our environment is important, but let's not be gullible. When someone says that we need to be "carbon neutral" to save the Earth, but then says that if you can't do your part you can alleviate your responsibility by giving them money (ie carbon credits), they have just shown their true motivation.
12/14/09
I am far more concerned with our elected officials who will use the fear waged by the far wing proponents of *both* sides of any argument to create laws that control the general population and restrict freedom.
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
But if the documented proof of the incredibly detrimental effects of oil and coal use to this planet as well as our own health isn't enough for you, then nothing will be.
In the immortal words of Jules Winfield "You wanna play blind man? Go walk with the shepherd. But me? My eyes are wide fucking open."
12/14/09
Hm. I think you just proved my point even more, so thanks for that.
In the immortal words of I-don't-know-who, "Follow the man who seeks the truth and run from the man who claims to have found it."
12/15/09
Do I believe in the global warming theory? No. But do I believe in conservation and using our resources wisely? Yes, and I think that's something all sides can agree on.
12/15/09
Kidding aside, I do agree with you in principle that we are all stewards of the earth and its resources and we need to be careful with them. Part of that comes from our own personal responsibility (don't litter, reduce unneeded waste, etc).
Another part of it comes from our elected representatives who make laws that impact us all. Those laws are sometimes created based on public opinion and spirited debates can be a deciding factor. Is global warming theory one of those debates? I don't know.
Whether it is or not, I still do not plan to remain silent when I read comments from people that I strongly disagree with. We should always be willing to meet on the battlefield of ideas.
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
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12/14/09
Seriously, nerds. At least leave the room if you gotta do that.
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12/14/09
It's just one step in their plan to become undisputed masters of the Arctic.
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
12/14/09
There, it's settled. He's the savior of the world again.
12/14/09
11/30/09
Mass Effect 1 (PC) - $5
Dragon Age (PC) - $40
The Sims3 (PC) - $30
CitiesXL (PC) - $30
Crysis Maximum Edition (PC) - $20
GTA IV (PC) - $25
Dawn of Discovery - $25
Although I'm upset with D2D over problems with a previous download, so I'm going to avoid.
11/30/09
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11/30/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
No blows were thrown though...that I know of.
11/30/09
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11/30/09
11/30/09
Cheap and proud of it. :)
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
Good Luck!
11/30/09
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11/30/09
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11/30/09
I will take my camcorder (HD and better quality) and then proceed to film these idiots in hope that embarrassing them on the internet will prevent this type of behavior in the future.
Sigh, who am I kidding? At least it will make for good giz fodder!
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
"What are those things coming out of their nose?"
"Spaceballs"
"Oh $hi*, there goes the planet"