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I was thinking of getting a PS3. Can anyone tell me to what degree a PS3 can be used as an HTPC with addons like PS3 Media Server and PlayOn? What are the limitations?
@PurpleMonkeyDishwasher:: I have a PS3 that I use primarily for gaming but recently I've added music and videos to it. My main problem with it is that when you add videos you have to reorganize them into folders and their icons are just the first second of the video as a screenshot (if hovered over the video starts playing). Custom screen shots can be used but it's a hassle to do and they still don't look as nice as the dvd case or poster you would get with a real HTPC.
@greenhornetc13: That's not too bad though although the first few seconds are typically a black screen. So to stream movies from a networked PC you have to keep your media folders on your PC very organized?
@PurpleMonkeyDishwasher:: I have PS3 in my bed room, and a HTPC in the living room, and to be honest I feel that the PS3 should really be relegated to secondary duty. The user interface on the PS3 is nothing like what Boxee does, and you are completely limited to videos that you have on your host PC. I you are planning on getting a PS3 and think it will be fun to use it as a video server then by all means go for it. But if you are buying it with video streaming first, gaming second... then you might want to reconsider.
As for the organization question, yes you do have to keep your folders somewhat neat, as the PS3 does not organize any of the files itself, simply display how you have saved the files on your host PC.
PurpleMonkeyDishwasher: promoted this comment
Edited by San Francisco Kid at 12/09/09 3:30 AM
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At least when I checked very briefly back when the ZinoHD came out, the upgrade costs are unexpectedly reasonable. I could have perhaps found better deals if I had spent more than 15 minutes looking up RAM on NewEgg, but at least at that point in time upgrading to 8 GB of RAM through Dell was almost identical in price as upgrading the RAM using cards purchased off of NewEgg.
How does an HTPC work with like antivirus and stuff.. I mean, I don't want to be watching a show at 3 in the morning and then it slows to a lag when virusscan starts running or a Windows Update forces a restart on you. TV is the place to get away from all the annoyances a computer can have
@yankeesrule: Those things are user configurable. You can usually have your virus program scan when the system is idle and you can disable automatic updates.
@FigNinja: Plus now you have the option of using Microsoft Security Essentials as the free Anti-Virus software on the thing. Adequate, easy to use, silent, runs in the background without bugging you. And free of course. I can't imagine you need anything hardcore for your media PC anyway. If you only visit known sites and don't install software on it, you might just use the firewall in your router and nothing more.
Good article, but you should follow it up with a series on the software required with all of this. What would be the good software?
My particular situation:
Right now, I've got my gaming pc (with HD card with HDMI out) hooked up to my 42" HDTV. The only things I currently do with it are: 1) Hulu, 2) Netflix, 3) gaming. For TV watching, I'm currently stuck with DirectTV, but trying to escape them. Once I do, it seems like my best option would be to just get an HD broadcast antenna and hook it up to my TV through one of the other HDMI inputs. The problem with that is that I really want DVR. I know there are programs out there that can handle this (I think Giz did something on them back in March or April, maybe), but that information would be good in conjunction with this article.
@Neil41487: I haven't done that with MCE but I did it with MythTV and BeyondTV a few years back. I just piped the output from the DirecTV box into the tuner card and used an IR blaster to control the box. I checked before I bought that particular DirecTV box that there were IR codes available.
As others have mentioned, a big concern for me with most of these HTPCs is the lack of a single or dual tuner so I can record/pause live TV. I came across this product recently [www.silicondust.com] that might solve the problem (+ offer additional options).
I got the acer revo R1600, no wireless, and 1GB less of ram for $200 at newegg. It's a different CPU as well, has less L2 cache, but seems to still be a dual-core atom. At least that's what system manager in win 7 64 bit is reporting.
Pretty nifty box, might be using it for digital signage, might drop more ram and a wireless into it. Should still be less than the model you guys are talking about.
I just got my first HDTV panel and it's in my bedroom/office. Would it be fine to run it as an extended desktop via a DVI-HDMI cable and run Boxee on the second screen? I'm running an nVidia 9800GTX, that should be able to handle it, right?
I will most likely not be using it in this fashion during times where i'm doing any heavy work on my computer.
@D0rk: I don't know the specs of the 9800GTX (and I'm too lazy to look them up right now), but that's what I'm doing with my 9400GT. If the card can't put sound through the HDMI cable, you'll need to play it through your computer speakers. I use Windows Media Center and when I'm in fullscreen mode on my TV, I can't use my mouse on my computer screen. Not sure if Boxee behaves the same way. Also, I only had 2GB of RAM and was having issues playing 1080 HD content. I upgraded to 4GB and now have no problems.
The single best Home Theatre PC to date. [store.apple.com]
Why is the Mac Mini not listed? I've been using it as my Home Theatre PC/Network backup/Wifi router/DVD Player since February. I have been pay TV free for a very long time. The Hulu Desktop application is great, and at perfectly integrated with the included Apple Remote. It has everything those have and more.
@DNABio: Na, BluRay is dead. It just doesn't know it yet. (But it probably sees the writing on the wall.) In 2 years everything will be streamed from NetFlix, Hulu, or whatever. Hulu and YouTube both have a High-Def option -not 1080p, but really pretty good. What is YouTube's Hi-Def resolution?
Anyways, it doesn't matter. Physical media is dead. Streaming/downloaded video is the future, and that is exactly what the MacMini was designed for.
@dallasmay: I live in Maryland and yet I encounter people all the time who aren't even capable of getting any form of broadband internet besides expensive satellite internet. Killing off physical media would alienate a large amount of people. In fact, at least in my area, the people who do not have an opportunity to have broadband internet are actually the ones with the most disposable income that do not live in a neighborhood or town; they are the people who are most likely to buy movies on blu-ray. Other than that, there is still a difference in pq of a blu-ray and a streamed, or even downloaded, movie. Someday physical media may go away, but I doubt it will be in 2 years.
@Schalliol: What's missing from the Mini is integrated audio with HDMI. So you're left with optical out from the minijack and basically DVI in a Mini Displayport plug.
When it comes to HTPC software Mediaportal is a stunning alternative to windows media centre. Its also open source and has some amazing media management plugins.
"And I'm not interested in netbooks until they handle HD well enough to be used as a portable HTPC."
I know the 11.6" form factor is really pushing it as far as netbooks go, but for $400 the Acer 1410 with 1.2GHz dual core CULV processor and 45ooMHD graphics can output full 1080p over HDMI with DXVA acceleration.
I wish I could use a Windows HTPC, but there's one thing the Mac has that I can't find a replacement for in Windows land: Control+scroll zoom.
It's crucial for reading small print on a giant screen that's on the other side of the room. I can't find a PC version of this thing anywhere, the closest thing is the janky magnifying glass in the windows accessibility menu, and that's garbage compared to having the whole screen blown up.
As for the mac mini lacking hdmi, boo hoo. Like it's so hard to get a dvi-hdmi adapter.
HTPC? How are these different from regular pc's? What would they replace in my current typical set up? I'm just curious because I've heard of these, but never understood what makes them better in a sense...
@USMarty: They tend to be a small form factor which fits into your media set up better than a mini tower. They're also usually made to be quieter so you don't have that constant fan humming interfering with your sound quality.
@FigNinja: Also they generally come in lower power flavors, as it is more important to have good quality playback as opposed to being blazing fast. This of course does not apply if you plan on using it as a home theater gaming machine as well.
You left out one advantage and one disadvantage of the latest crop of HTPCs:
THE GOOD: Windows 7. Works well on my Ion-powered HTPC, and Windows Media Center kicks ass (and is now compatible with ClearQAM).
THE BAD: These small HTPCs usually don't have an expansion slot to accommodate a PCI-e TV tuner. Sure, you can get a USB-interface tuner, but you sacrifice quality and performance. It shocks me that a dual TV tuner is not yet an option on most of these computers (with a couple of exceptions, one of which is the Lenovo Q700).
@PrimitiveWallflower: I hadn't heard of this. My current PC only has one PCI-e slot, and its being taken up by my HD video card. With a USB tuner I would end up giving up video quality?
Are there any stand-alone HDTV tuners that have USB or Firewire out? Would they suffer the same issue?
@whiteflea: I should say upfront that I haven't played around with an authoritatively wide variety of tuners. Basically, though, as I understand it there are three types: PCI-e tuners, USB stand-alone tuners, and USB "stick" tuners. The first two have some degree of on-board hardware processing, while USB sticks generally rely entirely on the host PC. Especially on the types of Atom-powered HTPCs being discussed here, you'll see performance issues with a USB stick. On the other hand, USB sticks are cheaper, so if you're devoted to being able to change channels while you record, you can probably pick up two sticks for not much more than the price of one stand-alone. The only USB stand-alone I've found with a dual-tuner is the ATI TV Wonder 650, but it's only "dual" in the sense that there's one digital tuner and one analog tuner... you cannot record two digital programs at the same time, for example.
@PrimitiveWallflower: I see. So, using a stick tuner, it would take the HD signal and send it to my HD graphics card, which would then process it into HD output to the TV, right? Would there be some sort of quality loss because of the stick having to transfer the data via USB to the motherboard, where it would then be routed to my existing HD card?
I have an HP Slimline as the backbone of my HTPC setup, with Windows Media Center running the show. At $500-600, I find it's far more flexible than the $400 options, and more powerful as well.
@mighty_squid: In pretty much every way? If you aren't into all of the other things a HTPC has to offer... then you can just use Windows Media Center. Many reviewers say it's interface is superior to Tivo's, and of course there is no subscription charge for it.
Of course if you'd like to venture outside of Tivo Land... then you can get great on demand programing from services like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon On Demand. With a Media Center remote control, and maybe an accelerometer mouse (or just download an app to turn your iphone into a touchpad mouse like I did)... it's a breeze to navigate from your couch.
@mighty_squid: I don't have a Tivo so I don't know what it supports as far as streaming from the Internet or your own personal files, but the upside of the PC is that you don't have to wait and hope for firmware support for any new Internet service you want to use.
As for the effort, MCE is pretty much a no-brainer. I ran Myth for years and it really did take a lot of tinkering. Part of was my own fault since I kept getting all the new updates. I could've just frozen it at a working level but I can't resist a shiny new update. MCE is much simpler. Of course, Tivo is simpler yet. It's just finding your own balance between simplicity and flexibility.
@mighty_squid: The advantage of an HTPC is versatility: one box takes care of your TV recording, your digital video and music, and your streaming video, not to mention other possibilities like games/emulators, etc. Granted, TiVos do TV recording extremely well, but doing everything else on that list with only a remote is like pulling teeth one at a time. Watching YouTube on my TV is great, but the five minutes it takes to input the search in TiVo is excruciating. Plus, as you mentioned, an HTPC gives you all of TiVo's scheduling and recording functionality without any monthly fees. I cannot speak for all software, but WMC and Boxee are pretty close to TiVo in terms of UI. Finally, with
To me, the biggest advantage of a TiVo over an HTPC is compatibility with digital cable. This will hopefully change soon, as Windows 7 is now CableCARD compatible, but right now if you live in an area with Comcast or Time Warner, you're not going to get many HD channels with your tuner, because they encrypt most of them. An HTPC will pull off the over-the-aid HD channels (which look great) and any unencrypted ClearQAM cable channels (which are usually few and far between), but most people who are tech-savvy enough to set up an HTPC would probably also want some of those missing extended cable channels (on the other hand, maybe Hulu obviates this...).
@robinandtami: Tivo has Netflix, Amazon on Demand, YouTube, Blockbuster, Disney VOD, rhapsody, Games, weather, ect ect ect.
Hell, I ordered pizza from the thing the other day just using the remote.
I've used Windows Media Center. Nice but not as good as Tivo IMHO.
I don't want a mouse and a keyboard. I just want entertainment.
I've had Tivos since they began making the things and they don't crash. You can't tell me a HTPC will never crash or won't require effort in settings and upkeep.
If you like the control of creating something just they way you want to I understand the HTPC option. You can make it whatever you need. It also has a lot more options to get around DRM. If that's your thing it's a good option.
If you just want to kick back and enjoy yourself without a keyboard and mouse to constantly change settings Tivo HD is a fine option as well.
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As for the organization question, yes you do have to keep your folders somewhat neat, as the PS3 does not organize any of the files itself, simply display how you have saved the files on your host PC.
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My particular situation:
Right now, I've got my gaming pc (with HD card with HDMI out) hooked up to my 42" HDTV. The only things I currently do with it are: 1) Hulu, 2) Netflix, 3) gaming. For TV watching, I'm currently stuck with DirectTV, but trying to escape them. Once I do, it seems like my best option would be to just get an HD broadcast antenna and hook it up to my TV through one of the other HDMI inputs. The problem with that is that I really want DVR. I know there are programs out there that can handle this (I think Giz did something on them back in March or April, maybe), but that information would be good in conjunction with this article.
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I used a variety of custom HTPCs for years, and it's a relief to be free from the nuisances. Convergence isn't all it's cracked up to be.
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Pretty nifty box, might be using it for digital signage, might drop more ram and a wireless into it. Should still be less than the model you guys are talking about.
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I will most likely not be using it in this fashion during times where i'm doing any heavy work on my computer.
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Why is the Mac Mini not listed? I've been using it as my Home Theatre PC/Network backup/Wifi router/DVD Player since February. I have been pay TV free for a very long time. The Hulu Desktop application is great, and at perfectly integrated with the included Apple Remote. It has everything those have and more.
It should have made this list. No excuse.
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It is easily the more capable machine, but definitely in a different price bracket.
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I don't know why that is so hard to understand. You are spending $600 on a PC, drop another $5 and buy a Displayport/HDMI converter. How hard is that?
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Anyways, it doesn't matter. Physical media is dead. Streaming/downloaded video is the future, and that is exactly what the MacMini was designed for.
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I know the 11.6" form factor is really pushing it as far as netbooks go, but for $400 the Acer 1410 with 1.2GHz dual core CULV processor and 45ooMHD graphics can output full 1080p over HDMI with DXVA acceleration.
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It's crucial for reading small print on a giant screen that's on the other side of the room. I can't find a PC version of this thing anywhere, the closest thing is the janky magnifying glass in the windows accessibility menu, and that's garbage compared to having the whole screen blown up.
As for the mac mini lacking hdmi, boo hoo. Like it's so hard to get a dvi-hdmi adapter.
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THE GOOD: Windows 7. Works well on my Ion-powered HTPC, and Windows Media Center kicks ass (and is now compatible with ClearQAM).
THE BAD: These small HTPCs usually don't have an expansion slot to accommodate a PCI-e TV tuner. Sure, you can get a USB-interface tuner, but you sacrifice quality and performance. It shocks me that a dual TV tuner is not yet an option on most of these computers (with a couple of exceptions, one of which is the Lenovo Q700).
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Are there any stand-alone HDTV tuners that have USB or Firewire out? Would they suffer the same issue?
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Sure Tivo still has monthly fees for some reason but having them deal with the software is worth it for me.
I want to turn off my brain in the living room. Not try to configure a PC to do what a Tivo does better and easier.
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Of course if you'd like to venture outside of Tivo Land... then you can get great on demand programing from services like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon On Demand. With a Media Center remote control, and maybe an accelerometer mouse (or just download an app to turn your iphone into a touchpad mouse like I did)... it's a breeze to navigate from your couch.
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As for the effort, MCE is pretty much a no-brainer. I ran Myth for years and it really did take a lot of tinkering. Part of was my own fault since I kept getting all the new updates. I could've just frozen it at a working level but I can't resist a shiny new update. MCE is much simpler. Of course, Tivo is simpler yet. It's just finding your own balance between simplicity and flexibility.
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To me, the biggest advantage of a TiVo over an HTPC is compatibility with digital cable. This will hopefully change soon, as Windows 7 is now CableCARD compatible, but right now if you live in an area with Comcast or Time Warner, you're not going to get many HD channels with your tuner, because they encrypt most of them. An HTPC will pull off the over-the-aid HD channels (which look great) and any unencrypted ClearQAM cable channels (which are usually few and far between), but most people who are tech-savvy enough to set up an HTPC would probably also want some of those missing extended cable channels (on the other hand, maybe Hulu obviates this...).
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Hell, I ordered pizza from the thing the other day just using the remote.
I've used Windows Media Center. Nice but not as good as Tivo IMHO.
I don't want a mouse and a keyboard. I just want entertainment.
I've had Tivos since they began making the things and they don't crash. You can't tell me a HTPC will never crash or won't require effort in settings and upkeep.
If you like the control of creating something just they way you want to I understand the HTPC option. You can make it whatever you need. It also has a lot more options to get around DRM. If that's your thing it's a good option.
If you just want to kick back and enjoy yourself without a keyboard and mouse to constantly change settings Tivo HD is a fine option as well.