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Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
Brain Scan Finds Man Was Not in a Coma—23 Years Later
I Put Little Boy Into a Coma With Nothing But My Presence
I Bring Little Boy Out of a Coma With Nothing But My Presence

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Fractal the Meek
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
First, I fully agree with the sentiment that it's douchey to just say "LIES! LIES! He's a VEGGIE!" There's enough at stake here that the man deserves attention.

Two problems though. One, using functional communication (bad science) to try and back up the brain scans (better science) could lead us to all sorts of misunderstandings of what we can learn from the scans.

Second, depending on what's actually going on in this poor guy's body, the dysfunctional communication could just be torturing him all the more if we're misinterpreting what's going on, possibly putting words in his mouth. And THAT is a travesty.
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Edited by Fractal the Meek at 11/25/09 1:18 PM Fractal the Meek was starred Fractal the Meek was unstarred

fuchikoma
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
So a ouija board for the living, then? I was wondering how a man they didn't think was even conscious could use any kind of keyboard...

I'm not going to conclude he's a fraud though, but I will read whatever I find about this story as it's a very scary thought that this could happen to someone...
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Voyou_Charmant
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
Human Ouija Board. Neat. Maybe we can use him to communicate with spirits!

I feel fairly certain the only thing he is requesting is pornography.
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Edited by Voyou_Charmant at 11/25/09 9:49 AM Voyou_Charmant was starred Voyou_Charmant was unstarred

dufus
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
Shouldn't we just send him to Talos IV? He'd be happier I think.
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comrade_leviathan
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
I'm still not sure I understand exactly what's being claimed here. He was in a coma for 23 years. In 2006 a doctor "discovered" that his brain was still almost entirely active (either through a scan or this awesomely-reliable Ouija method).

But when did he officially come out of the non-responsive coma? He obviously wasn't moving his foot "yes" or "no" for the past 23 years, right?

Come on reporter people! GIVE ME CONTEXT!
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Odin
11/25/09

@comrade_leviathan:
I don't know much about comas but I assume that in some cases there's some minor movement. The movement of his foot is probably only very slight so it likely never raised any red flags when he was in the "coma".
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comrade_leviathan
11/25/09

@Odin: So the whole time he was saying "yes" or "no" and no one knew which one meant what?

How frustrating. I'm doubting the foot movement even happened until after he had come out of the coma and they'd developed a means for him to communicate.
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Poop Cooper
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
FTA: "The James Randi Educational Foundation has offered a million-dollar prize to a valid demonstration of facilitated communication, and Randi invited Houben to participate. 'Our prize is still there,' he said."

Yes, Randi, taunt the man who's paralyzed and was misdiagnosed as a coma patient for longer than the average college student has been alive.
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Ryan Heeley
11/25/09

@Poop Cooper: Do you know who Randi is? He'd never taunt anyone with a disability, if anything he's one of the only sane people left on this world with influence who might be able to save these people from bullshit practices.
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Poop Cooper
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
Simple test: blindfold the helper, hold up an apple, and ask Mr. Houben to identify the fruit in front of him. If he can, great.

An alternative would be that, if he can signal yes and no with his foot, to simply ask him if what the helper is transcribing is accurately reflecting what he would say in his own words.

I don't see why there's any reason to debate this situation if he is truly cognizant and has established a system for responding without the aid of a third party.
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Edited by Poop Cooper at 11/25/09 4:45 AM Poop Cooper was starred Poop Cooper was unstarred

GitEmSteveDave_DefinesTurgid
11/25/09

@Poop Cooper: IIRC, when they have performed IQ tests on people with the "help" of a FC, the results of the test often line up with the IQ of the FC, not the patient.
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Spongehead56
11/25/09

@Poop Cooper:

They have done studies using similar methods to what you're describing with children with autism. None of them have ever produced accurate results. Ever.
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FritzLaurel
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
Even if someone else wrote the stuff, the dude is apparently still not in a coma if he's actively responding. Keep your eye on the ball, people.
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myxylplyx
11/25/09

@FritzLaurel: Exactly, the point everyone needs to zero in on is was this man in a state of being able to see and hear everything going on around him for 23 years while at the same time not being able to let anyone know? Stop being assholes for a bit and just spend one minute trying to comprehend what it would be like to be conscious for that long and not be able to tell any of the people who thought you were just a vegetable. That would truly be hell on earth.
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Poop Cooper
11/25/09

@myxylplyx: I don't think anyone is being an asshole for saying that they would prefer it if a man who has been paralyzed for 23 years were given the opportunity to speak for himself rather than to have a third party speak for him as him. There's skepticism, but only with the goal of preventing this man from becoming a prop and to maintain his integrity.
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j.patrick.mathews
11/25/09

@myxylplyx: It would also be hell to have finally having people know you are awake, but you don't get to communicate because the facilitator is making up the words.
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FlorianWardell
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
But if he can signal yes or no, it means that he is indeed concious. Who cares about the rest?
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nachobel
11/25/09

In reply to Doubt Cast on Man Found to Be Conscious After 23-Year Coma
Seriously after 23 years of me just staring at the nothing, but completely conscious while everyone else thought I was a vegetable, I'd have some SERIOUS SHIT to say. It wouldn't be anything "oh my family, boo hoo" it'd be more like "I'm going to find a way to get out of this fucking chair and I'm going to kill every goddamn one of you."
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NorwoodIsMyHero
11/24/09

In reply to Brain Scan Finds Man Was Not in a Coma—23 Years Later
Do you see what socialized healthcare gets you?

Troll bait anyone?
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robinandtami
11/24/09

@NorwoodIsMyHero: Forget socialized healthcare... I'm really pissed about socialized emergency services. Why should my tax dollars be used to extinguish someone elses kitchen fire?
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twiner
11/24/09

@robinandtami: Because that one persons kitchen fire could spread to their neighbors, and then their neighbors, etc. etc.

The great Chicago fire of 1871 is evidence of a similar situation. A fire is suspected to have started in a shed, and then spread across nearly 4 square miles before it was contained.

That's why you pay tax dollars to prevent it.
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robinandtami
11/24/09

@twiner: Well it's a darn good thing that diseases don't spread beyond their initial carriers.... wait.....

#tips
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Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
11/24/09

In reply to Brain Scan Finds Man Was Not in a Coma—23 Years Later
He wasn't in a coma. He was just extremely sleepy..
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dr.
11/24/09

In reply to Brain Scan Finds Man Was Not in a Coma—23 Years Later
@POOP cooper

you make a blanket statement. Doctors do know how to use technology, there are myriad reasons for people to get testing or not. For example CT scans are incredible in the imaging that they provide but they also give you radiation. Say someone gets in an accident in their lates teens -- CT then they have a kidney stone/kidney infection --CT then they have another problem in life/accident. This person has been overdosed with radiation. Every scan causes some bit of permanent damage, and every scan is expensive as well. Resources are limited, and routinely checking every single comatose pt with certain "technologies" is not feasible or a good use of limited resources. I do think that before one diagnoses a patient as permanent vegetative state, they should at least perform a simple and inexpensive EKG to rule out cognizance.
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Poop Cooper
11/24/09

@dr.: Apologies, you're absolutely right and in hindsight I totally overreacted to some fuzzy and possibly invalid statistics. This is a great explanation and addresses all of my concerns. I genuinely thank you for appeasing the ramblings of an internet personality.
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MacWilson
11/24/09

In reply to Brain Scan Finds Man Was Not in a Coma—23 Years Later
Ok I just read a little about this FC thing.

It would not be difficult to ascertain if this was valid or not so I don't know what is going on and i'm not going to judge this if everyone is so lame they can't even make a simple call on this simple question.

Of course you should never underestimate the deviousness of the religious right.

But until the (sane) jury is out we should give the benefit of the doubt considering what is at stake.

And if this is faked, that's exactly where the morons should be (the stake)
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Segador
11/24/09

@MacWilson: "Of course you should never underestimate the deviousness of the religious right."

And let me guess, whatever political doctrine you espouse is altruistic and incapable of wrongdoing.

Regardless of your political views, blanket statements like this serve no purpose but to inflame pointless argument.
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qballdz
11/23/09

In reply to Brain Scan Finds Man Was Not in a Coma—23 Years Later
Bring out yer dead.

I'm not dead yet.
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