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New York, 4:47 AM
Sat Dec 5
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Gaucho85 Gaucho85
    12/03/09

    In reply to The Best Gadgets
    Not to be labeled a fanboy or anything but calling the Xbox 360 over the PS3 is really subjective. I have both but I'd recommend the PS3 over the 360 especially since most games these days are multiplatform.
     Reply
    Gaucho85 was starred Gaucho85 was unstarred
    Image of Pope John Peeps II Pope John Peeps II
    12/02/09

    In reply to Intel Demonstrates Programmable 48-Core Chip
    "The machine will be able of understanding the world around them much as humans do," Rattner said. "They will see and hear and probably speak and do a number of other things that resemble humanlike capabilities, and will demand as a result very (powerful) computing capability."

    Clearly Intel's Chief Technology Officer Justin Rattner is operating far below his regular operating speed.

    or, in layman speak: he's RETARDED.
     Reply
    Pope John Peeps II was starred Pope John Peeps II was unstarred
    Image of Noobs-R-Us Noobs-R-Us
    12/02/09

    @Pope John Peeps II: Yes, I agree. I would add that monkeys would sooner fly out of my butt before what Rattner said would happen.
     Reply
    Noobs-R-Us was starred Noobs-R-Us was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    12/02/09

    @Pope John Peeps II: Are you guys serious?

    He is not joking here or being stupid. Look at recent research into vision, speech synthesis, and other such things. One of the primary reasons we have not been good at this with single core processors is because they do not behave the way neurons do, and to program them to do so requires enormous processing power.

    Using multiple cores allows for more flexible software which is more error prone, but leads to far more natural results. Note the earlier Gizmodo article about the competitors with the Blue Brain project and their approach to machine intelligence.

    Or the recent research done on bees, showing that they have far more complex vision capabilities than we thought, in a brain which has vastly fewer neuronal connections than we thought were necessary for such complex vision.

    Have some imagination and do some research, this guy wasn't just talking out of his ass. He is the CTO of Intel FFS, sure he may exaggerate for effect, but he isn't just making stuff up.
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of Pope John Peeps II Pope John Peeps II
    12/02/09

    @The5thElephant: The Blue Brain project is NOTHING like any sort of intelligence. That guy who claimed to have duplicated a cat brain? Was totally debunked by genuine intelligence researchers. No one is even sure if simple intelligence can even be duplicated by any number of parallel connections.

    This person is absolutely talking out of his ass in order to market a brand. Exaggeration is a form of lying, but especially on this scale. See the following statements:

    1) "according to current theories we will eventually be able to duplicate intelligence in some form. Although we're not quite sure how, or what form that intelligence will take".

    2) "THINKING MACHINES ARE HERE, NOW. THEY NEED CHIPS. BUY OUR CHIPS".
     Reply
    Pope John Peeps II was starred Pope John Peeps II was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    12/02/09

    @Pope John Peeps II: Um, read my post?

    I said the "competitors" with the Blue Brain project, not the cat-brain people. There was another article recently about research into super-efficient low-accuracy processing done by multiple cores, which emulates the way the brain works instead of attempting to rigidly simulate it as the Blue Brain project is doing. I'm talking about them.

    The first statement you quote is accurate. As far as we know there is nothing special about the brain besides its complexity and structure. There is no magic going on in there. So there is no reason to believe we won't be able to recreate it eventually.

    Also see my point about research into bee brains. They have very complex behavior and vision, yet they have vastly simpler brains than we expected for such behavior.

    I'm not saying the machines we make will be "thinking" machines, but they will be expert vision/audio/whatever systems which come far closer to emulating our expert-systems. Our brains are really big and complex primarily because we have a big and complex body. For example whales have ginormous brains with crazy more neurons than we do, but this is because they need far stronger signals to control their massive muscles and bodies (also the pressure they go under may make neurons less accurate, so with more neurons the accuracy is increased on average, just like the earlier article I was talking about mentioned).

    We already have facial recognition, gait recognition, color, shape, etc. We just haven't combined them all into a coherent system yet.

    Where does he say the second thing?
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of Pope John Peeps II Pope John Peeps II
    12/02/09

    @The5thElephant: Yeah I read your post. There's nothing in what I wrote that misapprehends you in any friggin way. You're just trying to be a douche. The cat brain people were just a different example of the same science, one that I happen to have read about.

    And look: As far as we know there is nothing special about the brain besides its complexity and structure.

    The "as far as we know" means very little in the realm of pure scientific thought. Until the actual device of something is understood fully, the entire project remains purely theoretical. But not a theory like gravity is a "theory", there really IS no concrete, operative theory of consciousness beyond "oh we'll just slap a trillion connections together and POOTYPOOFMAGICPOOT you'll get a mind".

    If you're so into these fields, you should understand why saying things like "So there is no reason to believe we won't be able to recreate it eventually" is not sensible. There's no telling what barriers lie between the current science and that eventual outcome. Considering that most genuinely credible artificial intelligence researchers put us still at the infancy of knowledge regarding the functions, structures and operations of biological consciousness, it's just silly to say we're almost there. It's reductive and disrespectful to both science and the human mind. I'm sure eventually we'll get there, but that's most likely in decades, or more likely in hundreds of years.

    But do you know who DOES say "we're at the threshold of new consciousness"? Who says it all the time, constantly, for profit, like a vain, pernicious cancer of thought? FUTURISTS. Futurists who write books, futurists who have vested interests in the marketing of technology, futurists who maybe work for high tech companies and are paid to be futurists and given titles like "officer", which somehow gives them the right to say infuriatingly silly things about fascinating topics.
     Reply
    Pope John Peeps II was starred Pope John Peeps II was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    12/03/09

    @Pope John Peeps II: Yikes, someone is a bit sensitive. Maybe I douched too hard.

    The cat brain thing is not the same science. The cat brain thing is drastically different from both the Blue Brain project and the third project I was talking about. There even was a post about how they aren't the same.

    There actually are a number of strong hypotheses about consciousness, but you are correct that we cannot yet fully test them. However I am not a spiritual or mystical person, so I see no reason why the brain, of all things in this universe, would be somehow of a different nature that completely impedes us from replicating it.

    Yes I know we can't do it now, but I'm not throwing out exact year predictions.

    Also, I am talking about expert vision and audio systems, not conscious minds. If you claim to have read on this topic (a claim of mine as well), you should know that expert systems are quite different from conscious systems, despite having complex capabilities that many people think are only possible in conscious systems.

    For example the program that recently almost passed the Turing Test, it was an expert system and definitely not conscious.

    Furthermore even consciousness doesn't necessarily require vast complexity: [bit.ly]
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    12/02/09

    In reply to Intel Demonstrates Programmable 48-Core Chip
    This is nice and all that but parallelism hasn't been the problem facing chips it's the speed barrier. CPUs are really stalling in terms of accelerating today applications and software programming has been struggling to adapt to multi-threaded applications. I've even seen benchmarks where having too many cores can slow down performance.
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of spafles spafles
    12/02/09

    @yantelope: The whole reason most CPU manufacturers are pursuing multi core CPU's is basically because upping the speed further dramatically increases heat dissipation. Going even faster isn't practically possible.

    The main issue with using multiple cores is that software has to be adapted to use those extra cores. This is either the programmers task or the compiler has to do this, but I think that adapting to multi core hardware is the real challenge for computing. Cramming more cores in, clearly is not a problem.
     Reply
    spafles was starred spafles was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    12/02/09

    @spafles: Right, but there are supposedly technologies forthcoming to deal with the head dissipaiton problems and those would be more exciting to me than the multiple core chips. It seems like high end games and application are stalling in ways that they haven't in some time. It's kind of amazing that after 2 years we still can't run Crysis at 100 FPS.
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of spafles spafles
    12/02/09

    @yantelope: As far as I know, games depend more on GPU than CPU.
     Reply
    spafles was starred spafles was unstarred
    Image of Jrsy Devil's Advocate® Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
    12/02/09

    In reply to Intel Demonstrates Programmable 48-Core Chip
    Dammit. After seeing that picture now I want Triscuts..
     Reply
    Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was starred Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    12/02/09

    In reply to Intel Demonstrates Programmable 48-Core Chip
    The machine will be able of understanding the world around them much as humans do

    Clearly I am a few cores short in my processing unit because I certainly do not understand that statement at all. Who knew that the answer to artificial intelligence was just a matter of having a whole lot of cores on a processor. Here I was thinking that software might be involved. Stupid me.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of BobotheTeddy BobotheTeddy
    12/02/09

    @Monty: As long as it takes 147,456 processors to "outthink" a cat ([gizmodo.com]) i dont´t think 48 cores can handle "humanlike capabilities"
    … Software or not.
     Reply
    Monty promoted this comment BobotheTeddy was starred BobotheTeddy was unstarred
    Image of aec007 aec007
    12/02/09

    @Monty:
    SCC = Single-Chip Cloud Computing
    SCC = ScareCrow Computing (If I only had a brain... ♪♫♪♫♪♫)
     Reply
    Monty promoted this comment aec007 was starred aec007 was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    12/02/09

    @BobotheTeddy: Hey, only 147,408 cores to go! Hang in there, Intel - you will create a product smarter than a cat any millennium now.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of Mayor McRib Mayor McRib
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    I find it amazing that there was a Phizer commercial at the beginning and a computer in the background. I'm willing to bet that the little piece of paper in the lower right hand of the CRT said "on button". Andy just learned what sarcasm is, what's next Manscaping?
     Reply
    Edited by Mayor McRib at 11/30/09 5:37 PM Mayor McRib was starred Mayor McRib was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    "We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a quarter, you'd say. Now where was I... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones..."
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of Noobs-R-Us Noobs-R-Us
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
     
     Reply
    Noobs-R-Us was starred Noobs-R-Us was unstarred
    Image of EBone EBone
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    It's sad how someone who wrote such pieces as "Essay On War" has slid down in into doddering nonsense. Time for Andy to retire and to bring in someone several generations younger.
     Reply
    EBone was starred EBone was unstarred
    Image of Twilightred Twilightred
    12/02/09

    @EBone: I hardly ever catch his segments anymore. I can't believe he's slipped into this insanity.
     Reply
    EBone promoted this comment Twilightred was starred Twilightred was unstarred
    Image of ninjagin ninjagin
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    I thought Walt Mosspuppet was the grumpiest. Hmmm. Learned something new today.
     Reply
    ninjagin was starred ninjagin was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    you guys should have heard his segment when women got the vote. oh, my.
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of mike.m mike.m
    11/30/09

    @Nick: He was 1 year old, but nice try.
     Reply
    Nick promoted this comment mike.m was starred mike.m was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/30/09

    @mike.m:are you implying andy rooney did not have a firm grasp of the english language at the age of one? his generation's greatest mouthpiece! i would assume, one could see, with his command of the english language -- he started at a very early age.
     Reply
    Edited by Nick at 11/30/09 3:34 PM Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of mike.m mike.m
    11/30/09

    @Nick: well if you are taking that approach!

    I would imagine it started prenatal. He probably started penning speeches on the uterine wall! (too much?)
     Reply
    mike.m was starred mike.m was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/30/09

    @mike.m: maybe not speeches, but tally marks. i would guess about 280 of them.
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of Alfisted Alfisted
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    I love Andy Rooney for his wry humor and unique insight.
     Reply
    Alfisted was starred Alfisted was unstarred
    Image of OMG! Ponies! OMG! Ponies!
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    Dammit! I thought it was going to be John McCain. And now I want to see an old-man fight between Rooney and McCain.

    "Ladies & gentlemen! Please direct your attention to the ring. In the striped Depends, standing 5'7" accounting for height-loss from disc degeneration, the Aggravation from Albany, the Great White Whiner, The Chronic Complainer - ANDY ROOOOOOOOONEY!

    And in the solid Depends with the four-post cane, standing 5'10" in his slippers, the Phoenix Fury, the Pow-Pow POW, the Maverick Mauler - JOHN MCCAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN!"

    You fogies know the rules; now touch canes and come out complainin'
     Reply
    OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/30/09

    @OMG! Ponies!: and give a warm MGM welcome to our ring girls. the ladies of "Golden Girls!"
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of Dr. H. F. Danger Dr. H. F. Danger
    11/30/09

    In reply to The Grumpiest Old Man Talks to Us About Computers
    Son, to me a robot's just a garbage can with sparks comin' out it.

    Name's Old Man Waterfall. But most folks just call me "Old Man".
     Reply
    Dr. H. F. Danger was starred Dr. H. F. Danger was unstarred
    Image of buttnugget buttnugget
    11/30/09

    @Dr. H. F. Danger: The sparks keep me warm...

    :(
     Reply
    Dr. H. F. Danger promoted this comment buttnugget was starred buttnugget was unstarred
    Image of BubbleF**kingBuddy BubbleF**kingBuddy
    11/26/09

    In reply to The Best Gadgets
    I can't believe the COWON S9 got no love in the PMP section. It straight-up blows the iPod Touch and Zune HD out of the water.
     Reply
    BubbleF**kingBuddy was starred BubbleF**kingBuddy was unstarred
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