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New York, 10:22 PM
Tue Nov 24
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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Duckspwn Duckspwn
    11/16/09

    In reply to This Cyborg Life Gets Unplugged
    I'm sorry to say it, but I'm in the minority who didn't like the articles at all. Ah well, to each his own I guess. #cyborgs
     Reply
    Duckspwn was starred Duckspwn was unstarred
    Image of DJ Bushido DJ Bushido
    11/17/09

    @Duckspwn: But you're a fan of normal Giz? And the ultimate human gadget possibilities didn't interest you? I had to stop reading because I need to work a LITTLE bit while I'm on the clock... #cyborgs
     Reply
    Duckspwn promoted this comment DJ Bushido was starred DJ Bushido was unstarred
    Image of Duckspwn Duckspwn
    11/17/09

    @DJ Bushido: Not at all. I can't really be bothered with fantasizing about future technology that isn't guaranteed to come into existence. Articles on Giz that are like that are the ones I generally skip, unless it's really, really fascinating. #cyborgs
     Reply
    Duckspwn was starred Duckspwn was unstarred
    Image of Gordonium Gordonium
    11/16/09

    In reply to This Cyborg Life Gets Unplugged
    This was a great theme week here at Giz. Thanks to everybody involved in making it happen!

    I look forward to This Cyborg Life 2.0! #cyborgs
     Reply
    Gordonium was starred Gordonium was unstarred
    Image of not_a_virus.exe.vbs not_a_virus.exe.vbs
    11/15/09

    In reply to Meet the British Man with the "Bionic Bottom"
    "Oi mate, mind squirting a bit of WD40 en mah buttocks, I've been geting a bit of skweaking back there for a couple of weeks now."
     Reply
    Edited by not_a_virus.exe.vbs at 11/15/09 4:00 PM not_a_virus.exe.vbs was starred not_a_virus.exe.vbs was unstarred
    Image of farcedude farcedude
    11/15/09

    In reply to Meet the British Man with the "Bionic Bottom"
    As someone who might have had to end up with a colostomy bag some day, this is pretty awesome. Really. #cyborgs
     Reply
    farcedude was starred farcedude was unstarred
    Image of Jrsy Devil's Advocate® Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
    11/15/09

    In reply to Meet the British Man with the "Bionic Bottom"
    I wonder if that remote also includes a fart button.. #cyborgs
     Reply
    Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was starred Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was unstarred
    Image of Jrsy Devil's Advocate® Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
    11/15/09

    In reply to Careful, You'll Poke an Eye Out with That Thing
    Finally a tool for helping unsee what has been seen.. #eyes
     Reply
    Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was starred Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was unstarred
    Image of Software_Goddess Software_Goddess
    11/15/09

    In reply to Careful, You'll Poke an Eye Out with That Thing
    Was it intentional that they used a frowning baby doll to illustrate the use of this tool? #eyes
     Reply
    Software_Goddess was starred Software_Goddess was unstarred
    Image of PN - gooapplesoft PN - gooapplesoft
    11/15/09

    @Software_Goddess: exactly what i was thinking. #eyes
     Reply
    PN - gooapplesoft was starred PN - gooapplesoft was unstarred
    Image of Jrsy Devil's Advocate® Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
    11/15/09

    @Software_Goddess: Would you be smiling if someone was using a mellon-baller to scoop your eye out? #eyes
     Reply
    Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was starred Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was unstarred
    Image of dak1ng dak1ng
    11/13/09

    In reply to 10 Human Functions We've Already Handed Over To The Machines
    The Tmsuk babysit robot would be cool for things other than babysitting. I'd get it if it didn't cost 1.2 million dollars. Posted to my blog:

    [dailyrampager.wordpress.com] #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    TheSonOfKrypton approved this comment dak1ng was starred dak1ng was unstarred
    Image of ripfire ripfire
    11/13/09

    In reply to 10 Human Functions We've Already Handed Over To The Machines
    Forget the dishwashing. How about a robot that can fold laundry? #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    ripfire was starred ripfire was unstarred
    Image of hoocli hoocli
    11/13/09

    In reply to 10 Human Functions We've Already Handed Over To The Machines
    #3 looks so not yummy #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    hoocli was starred hoocli was unstarred
    Image of Erix_Cale Erix_Cale
    11/13/09

    @hoocli: I thought they were sausages at first #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    ripfire promoted this comment Erix_Cale was starred Erix_Cale was unstarred
    Image of ripfire ripfire
    11/13/09

    @Erix_Cale: It runs at 3 fps. #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    ripfire was starred ripfire was unstarred
    Image of Bertone77 Bertone77
    11/13/09

    @ripfire: Wouldnt that be 3tps?

    Turds per second? #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    Bertone77 was starred Bertone77 was unstarred
    Image of ripfire ripfire
    11/13/09

    @Bertone77: Feces per second. #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    ripfire was starred ripfire was unstarred
    Image of LastAndLeast LastAndLeast
    11/13/09

    @Bertone77: Ohhh so THAT's what a TPS report is about. #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    jeffk promoted this comment LastAndLeast was starred LastAndLeast was unstarred
    Image of jeffk jeffk
    11/13/09

    I am very happy the photo is not a closeup. #thiscyborglife
     Reply
    jeffk was starred jeffk was unstarred
    Image of Gordonium Gordonium
    11/12/09

    In reply to This Cyborg Life
    So, when are we going to get guest narrator Ira Glass to do a tie-in with This American Life? #cyborgs
     Reply
    Gordonium was starred Gordonium was unstarred
    Image of Hiphopopotamus Hiphopopotamus
    11/09/09

    In reply to This Cyborg Life
    Human Knees... still poorly designed. #cyborgs
     Reply
    Hiphopopotamus was starred Hiphopopotamus was unstarred
    Image of merkj merkj
    11/09/09

    @Hiphopopotamus: While any joint is going to be a weak point, the human knee a fascinating joint. Just a jog will subject your knees to three to four times your body weight.

    Try putting an equal amount of force on your car/trucks suspension. The suspension in your car or truck would not last nearly as long as your knees would. And your vehicles suspension is going to be made of steel parts.
     Reply
    Brian Lam approved this comment merkj was starred merkj was unstarred
    Image of natejosiah natejosiah
    11/09/09

    In reply to This Cyborg Life
    I don't know how people can read all this amazing stuff about just our bodies and not think there was a creator. Like anything like Android, a MBP, or even Windows 7 could come about without a mind designing it. How much more the human body, or the eye alone. Eventually in billions of years? I don't think so. /flamesuit #cyborgs
     Reply
    natejosiah was starred natejosiah was unstarred
    Image of seapathac seapathac
    11/09/09

    @natejosiah: For me it's the fact that our bodies are soooo amazing that I couldn't imagine there being a creator putting that much thought into anything. What I'm trying to say is that our biology is so very complex you'd think if we were just created we'd have a more simple efficient design. idk. Not trying to start a flame war but just answering how someone could think we weren't created. #cyborgs
     Reply
    seapathac was starred seapathac was unstarred
    Image of natejosiah natejosiah
    11/09/09

    @seapathac: I am not gonna fuel a flame war either. I didn't intend to start one myself. I know there are lots of reasons why people believe we weren't created. I haven't talked to anyone who thought something too complex would have been created simpler. Interesting point.

    I think when you get down to every little system in our bodies though it is just a bunch of small efficient designs all working together. #cyborgs
     Reply
    natejosiah was starred natejosiah was unstarred
    Image of facepuncher: you're right: facepuncher: you're right:
    11/09/09

    @natejosiah: I feel that intelligent design is just a simple answer to keep everyone in a line that started a long time ago and is still held on to for control.

    Intelligent design would make sense to something like anatomy, which was such a mystery thousands of years ago before science was so advanced. But in today's world there's little room for "because i said so".

    Not that i have anything against anyone's religion, just saying...

    Why is the human eye so complex?
    Is it because the creator made it so, or because of billions of years of pass/fail evolution? #cyborgs
     Reply
    facepuncher: you're right: was starred facepuncher: you're right: was unstarred
    Image of Ed Hirsch Ed Hirsch
    11/09/09

    @facepuncher: there are some serious flaws with the way we currently think about our theory of evolution. Pass/fail evolution can't account for certain advanced or symbiotic systems. The old "moths changing colors in industrial age britain" example is a phenome change. That means the DNA hasn't changed, right? That's why a lot of people look for other possible causes of evolution ("intelligent design" lacks proof and general scientific acceptance, making it a hypothesis, not even a theory - right?)

    What has always boggled my mind is when considering evolutionary systems which would be useless until fully adapted. For example, ecolocation in dolphins. How would slowly, over time, a dolphin screaming into the water be useful without the equipment to use it as sonar?

    Are there recorded examples of actual DNA changes leading to changed characteristics? (I know Viruses dont have DNA, how about bacteria changes?) I'm not a hard science major, so I'm really at a loss. Could some Dr. in Bio extrapolate on this for us? Or maybe a non-scientist friendly book out there? #cyborgs
     Reply
    Ed Hirsch was starred Ed Hirsch was unstarred
    Image of Dahamma Dahamma
    11/10/09

    @Ed Hirsch: For non-scientist friendly book: "Genome: The Autobiography of a Species in 23 Chapters". Fantastic reading.

    But in general, not to be overly negative but your examples don't make much sense...

    A phenotype is just an observable characteristic. It almost always determined by a different genotype, ie one or more differences in genes. It's really simple. Moths breed rapidly. Most of the moths that were not camouflaged by the soot were eaten.
    So within a small number of generations the genes that expressed dark coloration were much more prevalent in the population than the ones that expressed light coloration. The mutation probably happened a long time ago, but like blue or green eyes, was probably harmless - until it suddenly became the number one trait for selection.

    Your "dolphin screaming in the water" example makes even less sense, since that has already been shown to involve both genetic components and learned behavior - and besides, you might as well just become derivative and say "dolphins are complicated!" Why bother picking an "example I can't explain myself" at that point...

    And "pass/fail evolution can't account for certain advanced or symbiotic systems" - that's just a random statement you are making without any supporting evidence whatsoever! Citation please? #cyborgs
     Reply
    Dahamma was starred Dahamma was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/10/09

    @Dahamma: Just to keep the flame war going (it's fun).

    Okay. Evolution is empirically false. Ready? Okay. So the statistical probability of the world as we know it evolving is impossible. Scientists argue that over an infinite period of time anything that can happen will.

    Here is the flaw in the logic:

    You cannot pass an infinite amount of moments to arrive at this moment. If the universe has no beginning and no end we could never be here because we would have to have traversed an infinite amount of moments to make it here. Since you can't travel past infinity the logic breaks down. Therefore the universe must have a starting point. If there is a starting point then evolution is statistically impossible. #cyborgs
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    11/10/09

    @yantelope: This is complete and utter fail of logic.

    First, scientists DO NOT state that over an infinite period of time anything that can happen will. If the universe was just a rock floating in space, then an infinite amount of time would cause no change whatsoever.

    Second, the amount of time that has passed from the earliest RNA floating in the primordial ooze to now is ridiculously long. That is plenty of time for the huge number of duplications and mutations that took place to get where we are now.

    You are essentially using the same argument that the universe must be made for us because the Earth is perfectly suited for our existence which is highly unlikely. Except that this utterly fails since if the Earth were different we would be different, and would still be making that claim. And the aliens on the other side of the galaxy are making that claim about their planet. Yet the planets that didn't evolve life are not making that claim, because they DIDN'T evolve life! #cyborgs
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/10/09

    @The5thElephant: "You are essentially using the same argument that the universe must be made for us because the Earth is perfectly suited for our existence" I'm not doing anything but posing a purely logical question. You have an event that is statistically impossible. How do you explain it other than infinite time?

    edit: if you're arguing about life evolving under different circumstances and therefore trying to say that the odds of evolution aren't really so small then you'd want to show some sort of evidence that this is the case. I don't know of any evidence of life evolving outside of earth.
     Reply
    Edited by yantelope at 11/10/09 2:30 PM yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of Dahamma Dahamma
    11/10/09

    @yantelope: Except you seem to be the only one claiming it is "statistically impossible". Just because you read one "scientist" who said the same thing, does not either make it true or accepted doctrine. If you make up your own assumptions you can prove anything you fee like with "logic". #cyborgs
     Reply
    Dahamma was starred Dahamma was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/11/09

    @Dahamma: What I'm getting at is either A: the universe has a beginning or B: the universe is infinite. The universe can't be infinite since it's a logical paradox (see above) so the universe must have a beginning. If it has a beginning the odds of evolution occurring as a series of events based on the laws of physics are pretty much impossible to the point where you'd be going against logic to make such an assumption. You also can't assert that it happened so who cares because by that logic God created the universe because we're here. #cyborgs
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of Dahamma Dahamma
    11/11/09

    @yantelope: Yes, and whether the universe is infinite or not has nothing to do with the "odds of evolution". You are making up a statement that evolution is "statistically impossible" without any evidence or even remote consensus from the scientific community. Plus, you really don't seem to grasp the basic statistics used here...

    Let me put it another way: yes, the odds of humans developing in exactly the way we have was amazingly unlikely, given the mindboggling number of small changes that were necessary for it to happen. But the chance of those small changes adding up to some sort of living organism over a few billion years (which is most definitely NOT "infinity") were pretty much 1.

    The odds of you winning the lottery are "nearly statistically impossible". The odds of *someone* winning the lottery are pretty much 1. #cyborgs
     Reply
    Dahamma was starred Dahamma was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/11/09

    @Dahamma: Well, either you're talking about the universe being given enough time to try all possible combination until it arrives where we are today in which case you'd be making my point for an infinite amount of time or you're back to the universe having a starting point. If the universe has a beginning then there must have been something to start it going in which case you're back to intelligent design. #cyborgs
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    11/12/09

    @yantelope: Dude, read what Dahamma just wrote about the lottery. It completely eliminates your probability assertion.

    Also an infinite universe is certainly not a logical impossibility (something caused the Big Bang, something caused that, something caused that, ad infinitum). The concept of "beginning" and "end" are entirely human, in reality things just change. #cyborgs
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/12/09

    @The5thElephant: I'm not arguing that you can't win the lottery. What I am arguing is that the idea that time is infinite and goes on forever without beginning or end is nonsensical. To say that the odds of the universe occuring don't matter to you changes the argument of evolution from scientific process to a statement of belief. You crediting our existence to evolution is no more valid than somebody else crediting it to a god.

    The difference is if we are scientifically evaluating physical processes we evaluate the realistic chance of such a process occuring since we couldn't actually observe it. We can observe processes like mutations and the chances they will be beneficial and the chances they will be passed on and the chances that they will even occur. We gather data and use that data to evaluate theories and the data gathered makes it highly unlikely that evolution could have occurred and if it did occur it would have taken a nearly infinite amount of time to occur. If you are logically evaluating your options you wouldn't logically arrive at the solution that has the least probable chance of occurring. #cyborgs
     Reply
    The5thElephant promoted this comment yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    11/12/09

    @yantelope: Please show me this calculation of evolution's probability at arriving at this point, and then show me that the majority of the scientific community, or even a large minority, agrees with it or has different conclusions. #cyborgs
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/13/09

    @The5thElephant:

    here is an article about what you're talking about. Google pulls it up on the top.

    [www.dhbailey.com]

    "it is extremely unlikely that a random roll-of-the-dice assemblage of water molecules would assemble a single snowflake with a specific designated structure. And yet this phenomenon is repeated trillions of times in a typical snowstorm."

    If a scientist would like to apply this principal to evolution I would simply request a demonstration of where else in the universe such a "long series of aggregations, each acting under known physical laws of atomic interactions," has produced any form of life. We can see millions of snowflakes if we go outside during a winter storm. We cannot however show that evolution could provide another type of life or in this example a different snowflake. We know only of one snowflake and lots of dead empty space. So in that case I ask you what are the odds of a snowflake forming in Texas in August? #cyborgs
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    11/13/09

    @yantelope: Think about the completely different scale of your analogy.

    For the planets of the universe to compare to snowflakes in a storm, one would have to be the size of an atom sitting on the edge of one of those snowflakes. Ask that atom if there are any other snowflakes out there and it will laugh at you and say of course not, at least none that I can see!

    Just because something only occurs in rare circumstances (a planet forming the proper distance from the sun, with the right chemicals, etc.) does not mean that it never occurs, particularly in the case of something as huge as the universe, and the fact that we keep finding more and more and more planets. Our field of view is miniscule compared to the universe, and we don't even know if the universe is spatially finite or not.

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And as I already said, there is more and more evidence for a large number of planets of various types being out there.

    I love that you posted a link that supports my argument by the way. Read it again if you don't get why probability is just not a good argument against evolution.
     Reply
    Edited by The5thElephant at 11/13/09 10:25 AM The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of yantelope yantelope
    11/13/09

    @The5thElephant: I specifically posted a link to show that I understand the argument you're making and I agree that the absence of evidence is not evidence which is why the absence of there being any examples outside of the this world of evolution (if we accept this world as evidence) is invalidation of the argument that this world would have evolved a different way given different circumstances. There are no other circumstances in existence which yield life.

    But, my whole argument here at the begging which is the point which seems to have been yielded to me by a lack of rebuttal is that time and the universe are finite and in a finite universe belief in a highly improbable scenario is illogical. The article is making the point that there are nearly limitless potential outcomes of evolution of which this world is only one permutation but this is purely conjecture with no examples to back it up. #cyborgs
     Reply
    yantelope was starred yantelope was unstarred
    Image of zaghy2zy zaghy2zy
    11/09/09

    In reply to This Cyborg Life
    what made me say cool was the "top secret pentagon clearance"

    lol #cyborgs
     Reply
    Mark Wilson promoted this comment zaghy2zy was starred zaghy2zy was unstarred
    Image of OMG! Ponies! OMG! Ponies!
    11/09/09

    In reply to This Cyborg Life

    I disagree.

    Personally, I think the ultimate feat of evolution is the shark. Specifically, Carcaradon carcharias, better known as a Great White. Think about it.

    Mr. Lam, what we are dealing with here is a perfect engine, an eating machine. It's really a miracle of evolution. All this machine does is swim and eat and make little sharks, and that's all.

    Now, why don't you take a long, close look at this sign... #cyborgs
     Reply
    OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred
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