So wait, CD ripping software, like iTunes is legal, but DVD ripping is not? Seems to me like the motion picture industry has better lobbyists.
Oh, the almighty dollar.
@MacAttack7388: I believe it has to do with encryption. CD's aren't encrypted so you don't have to break the encryption to make a copy. Since DVD's are encrypted, the circumvention of the encryption is what is illegal.
Yeah? Well osculate with my posterior, douchebiscuit. Unless a more convenient, legal and less restrictive means to have my library exist as a collection of files on my Macbook/iPod becomes more apparent, HandBrake will be my bestest friend in the whole wide world.
I don't see what the problem is with dvd copying software. I bought the cd and thus it is my property and i can do whatever i want with it, i don't see how anyone can say you can't do xxx with YOUR dvd.
This is not a great precedence....What about when the same thing is rolled out to CD copying. Will iTunes be illegal? Will MP3 players? This is basically the same thing with different media. I'm pretty sure the DMCA covers music CDs the same way that it covers DVDs...so is the MP3 player industry in trouble now?
So, let me get this straight.....it could very easily (and in light of the CD situation, incredibly likely) be that making DVD backup copies is legal and a-ok. But distributors get to tack on software that makes these a-ok copies impossible, and then make it illegal to get around that software?
Yes. Yes I think that accurately summarizes how royally screwed up this mess is.
@OCEntertainment: My thoughts exactly. Get out of my head!
Anywho, it should be completely legal to make copies for your own personal backup and use (like it supposedly is) and be legal to use the tools to do so. They will never ever ever be able to stop people from pirating and bootlegging DVD's so they may as well make it easier on the rest of us.
So netflix doesn't rip the streaming movie content? Is there a mex..(insert cheap labor man here) putting a dvd in a player on the other side every time I hit the play button?
@StupidSimple: Netflix is authorized to redistribute the movies through the browser as an encrypted stream. It's no different from an iTunes expiry-encoded movie file that deletes itself 24 hours after the movie is played. It's a tad different from, say, you renting Netflix movies and ripping them, then sending them back.
Also, unnecessary much?
I hope Real appeals this as far as they can. It's absurd to me that the court would find permissible fair use for DVD copying while at the same time ruling that no tool can be created that would allow that fair use to happen.
At the same time, congress needs to revisit the DMCA. Folks ought to have a right to view content on whatever device they see fit, and not be locked into a particular format. Let's get some consumer protection up in that DMCA for a change.
@weatherman: Don't blame the court.
The judge is simply interpreting the law as it is written; he has no power to change it.
Blame the legislators for passing such terrible laws in the first place, and demand that they fix it.
@weatherman: Correct - as you know. If we could re-write or dump that 1998 DMCA suddenly the dozens of rulings like this are history and we would be drinking our favorite beverage and laughing like crazy people at the funeral. The issue is that corporations love the DMCA, so the chances that it will be changed or dumped are near nil. In fact, they keep working on making it worse.
@The_Gas_Man: every court, from the lowest to the highest, can interpret conflicts of law. I don't "blame" the court for choosing the easy way out and ruling in favor of supporting the DCMA, but it'd be a shame if the appeals courts just let that ruling stand without inquiry into this inherent conflict.
@weatherman: part of the DMCA states that they will revisit it every 3 years to find exceptions. This is how it goes down:
Users: "we want to be able to copy the content we purchase, regardless of encryption"
Big Media: "They want to anally rape your mother!"
Consider this: It is still illegal for blind people to circumvent encryption in e-books so they can use text-to-speech. A blind person can, however, develop their own software to do this. It is a known fact that blind people are masters of breaking encryption schemes.
If the freakin blind don't get a break, I don't expect we will.
Seriously, do we want to have a definitive answer to this question? As it stands now, we are all playing on the darker side of this judicial swimming pool, and if we find out that there are sharks over here, do we want the sirens to go off? I know, my analogies suck worse than a Dyson, but sometimes it is better to not know the answer. As it stands, we can all pick up DVD copying software from outside the Red White and Blue and "rip and return" our Netflix queue. If we find out what we are doing is giving Uncle Sam a migraine it just won't be as much fun. Though, admittedly, it won't stop us.
@Monty: It doesn't matter if a ruling were to come down on this against personal backups. The studios will NEVER enforce it. Why? Because that would finally bring long overdue attention to the garbage that is the DMCA. If they started suing Joe Sixpack for making backup DVD copies (not for distribution or making copies of rentals, just straight ripping of discs you own), the public outcry would finally force Comgress to repeal or substantially amend the DMCA. By going this route, they deprive users of easy tools from the likes of Real, Roxio, Apple, MSoft, etc. Without dead simple tools like that, your average consumer doesn't know how to rip movies and create their own movie jukeboxes. For the studios, this is the best solution - legal recourse without the kind of PR hit that the RIAA has given the music industry. It severely limits DVD ripping (vs CD ripping) and thus gives them more control of the marketplace.
@rgbyhkr: I think you're, unfortunately, exaggerating the importance of this kind of ruling. The all-important 'Joe Sixpack'... well, he probably doesn't "rip movies" for his own "jukebox". He probably buys them, or gets them from netflix, watches them, and returns them.
We as nerds might have convinced ourselves that backing up movies and stuff is more common than it is. I don't think that's true, at least not outside of the subset of the population that is ALREADY enraged over the DMCA.
@dsh: You're right, the avg Joe doesn't rip movies. But would they if the tools were freely available from mainstream players? I think that they would, just as many do now with CDs.
My point was that Joe Sixpack isn't even aware that the DMCA effectively differentiates your consumer rights on one 12cm silver disc vs. another. Movies effectively get more protection. If the studios started suing people for personal backups, the news stories might finally get people to notice. "Wait, you mean I can't copy a movie like I can a CD? Why the heck not?" You'd likely see stories about the cool things you can't do with movies that you have been able to do for years with music because of the law. As digital movie downloads and streaming start to become more common, people would wonder why they can't just use the disc they already paid for to put content on their portable device (especially as small HDD and SSD sizes grow).
By flying under the radar as it relates to consumer usage, the studios are avoiding further scrutiny of the special protection the DMCA gives them. It's a smart strategy because, as of now, the vast majority of people don't even know that there is a legal difference. At worst, they think that companies like Apple are trying to get them to buy downloaded movies from ITMS by not making DVD rips available in iTunes. They don't even realize what's behind it. I have no doubt that lawsuits against users would indeed get enough folks to stand up and take notice.
Another clear message set forth from a legal perspective on the strange and wonderful laws surrounding the distribution of copyrighted material. The motion picture lobby is strong, do not deny their supreme control!
If you buy a DVD, are you still breaking the law if you then go on to torrent that film so you can put it on your media player? Only reason I'm saying is because with the speed of modern connections, it's probably faster to download it than ripping the DVD.
@craig_16: I don't think it's illegal to download, but with torrents you're uploading at the same time as you're downloading. Most lawsuits centered around people uploading (or making available for uploading) files to other users, not downloading.
@SewerShark: It varies between 16 and 20 mbit/s. The quality I get depends on the type of film. Sometimes a 700MB rip is adequate, which takes about 10 minutes if I get it through Rapidshare. A 4GB HD rip obviously takes a little longer, about an hour.
@danger the pirate (now with google voice!): It's marijana.
@craig_16: If you buy a DVD, why even waste time downloading a file that may very well be very inferior to what you already own? The speed of modern connections doesn't necessarily mean much for a P2P network, since the amount of leechers and seeders and active sources could make that all irrelevant.
Hmmm - I am doing this almost every second weekend. Recording the F1 GP via my macbook with built in camera for my wife (working late). Just too lazy to get a recording device since I have (besides this one) no other need for it. So the macbook does me just fine. Does this mean Bernie can't slap me with his b.lls.ck? Even the better!!!
Since I'd love to show this instructional video clip on my own website, I've set up my camcorder and am recording it off the Giz site, and then will import it into iMovie and export it in a web-compatible format I can upload to my site. Works like a champ!
Then, if anyone sees it on my website and would like to show it on theirs, I'd be happy to lend them my camcorder along with instructions so they can tape it from my site and get it up and running on their site in no time at all!
This digital technology... it's amazing what it can do!
OK, folks, here is what is at stake and here is why the MPAA put this (ridiculous) video together (emphasis added):
At the DMCA 1201 hearings at the Copyright Office at the Library of Congress, representatives from the MPAA showed a video demonstrating how users can videorecord a TV set. They argue this is an acceptable analog alternative to breaking copy protection on a DVD.
The hearings occur every three years to determine whether the Librarian at the Library of Congress (through direction of the Copyright Office) should create exemptions to the anti-circumvention provisions in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
In 2006, film and media professors were granted an exemption in order to break copy protection on DVDs so that they could utilize high quality video clips in classroom teaching. Up for consideration during the 2009 exemption hearings is whether this exemption should be extended to apply to faculty teaching in all disciplines, and whether the exemption should apply to students.
So, apparently, the MPAA is fighting the extension and/or expansion of the exemption, saying that this idiotic technique is suitable for classroom purposes. I don't know about most teachers, but I sure don't have time to set up a camcorder to capture a TV screen and get substandard quality.
@bosskev: Most teachers don't even have time to show anything on TV, and unless it's a better school/higher education, they would have to bring their own DVD player/DVD anyway. Basically, this is just an excuse to make hearings seem worthwhile, when the whole thing (DMCA) is just a huge dirty diaper that someone forgot to throw away.
@bosskev: I wonder if they can take themselves seriously when they're trying to present this. This is so ridiculous. But there's one thing I don't get. They're getting the Audio straight from the DVD player right? So its ok to copy the audio straight from the source and not the video? Just give them the exemption. Teachers have a hard time as it is, and this is only going to make things more difficult for them.
@spannu: Agreed about the dirty diaper analogy. Still, it is not about bringing or using a DVD player in the classroom--it is about the fact that, as of 2006, certain teachers were granted the legal right to RIP fair-use segments from commercial DVDs via copy-protection breaking tools like Handbrake.
The advantage here to an educator is HUGE, i.e., to already have the pertinent sections edited and pieced together ready to show.
@joelydanger: Of course, the audio is going through a d/a conversion, and then back to an a/d conversion.
If there were a device to similarly convert the digital video to analog, and then back to digital, strictly for the purpose of downgrading quality by a negligible generation of d/a/d conversion, I wonder if that would pass their test? After all, the whole purpose of this ridiculous contraption is to artificially cause generational loss of quality.
Since that's what seems to pacify the MPAA, they might as well just release a video plug-in for teachers that adds noise and distortion to video clips used in the classroom since it would have the same effect.
Or for teachers who are less video savvy, perhaps the MPAA could just supply bags of scratched up sun glasses for students to wear in class whenever the teacher shows a video, to replicate generational loss without the fuss.
@TheDoomer: The issue here is that teachers are wanting to rip the video so that they can incorporate portions of it into their classes. Like an archeology professor could take a bunch of Indiana Jones clips where he's recklessly looting some temple, "splice" them back to back, and say "This is an example of what not to do"... rather than waste a bunch of class time swapping DVDs around and cuing up scenes.
08/12/09
Oh, the almighty dollar.
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
Yes. Yes I think that accurately summarizes how royally screwed up this mess is.
08/12/09
Anywho, it should be completely legal to make copies for your own personal backup and use (like it supposedly is) and be legal to use the tools to do so. They will never ever ever be able to stop people from pirating and bootlegging DVD's so they may as well make it easier on the rest of us.
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
Also, unnecessary much?
08/12/09
At the same time, congress needs to revisit the DMCA. Folks ought to have a right to view content on whatever device they see fit, and not be locked into a particular format. Let's get some consumer protection up in that DMCA for a change.
08/12/09
The judge is simply interpreting the law as it is written; he has no power to change it.
Blame the legislators for passing such terrible laws in the first place, and demand that they fix it.
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
Users: "we want to be able to copy the content we purchase, regardless of encryption"
Big Media: "They want to anally rape your mother!"
Consider this: It is still illegal for blind people to circumvent encryption in e-books so they can use text-to-speech. A blind person can, however, develop their own software to do this. It is a known fact that blind people are masters of breaking encryption schemes.
If the freakin blind don't get a break, I don't expect we will.
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
We as nerds might have convinced ourselves that backing up movies and stuff is more common than it is. I don't think that's true, at least not outside of the subset of the population that is ALREADY enraged over the DMCA.
08/12/09
My point was that Joe Sixpack isn't even aware that the DMCA effectively differentiates your consumer rights on one 12cm silver disc vs. another. Movies effectively get more protection. If the studios started suing people for personal backups, the news stories might finally get people to notice. "Wait, you mean I can't copy a movie like I can a CD? Why the heck not?" You'd likely see stories about the cool things you can't do with movies that you have been able to do for years with music because of the law. As digital movie downloads and streaming start to become more common, people would wonder why they can't just use the disc they already paid for to put content on their portable device (especially as small HDD and SSD sizes grow).
By flying under the radar as it relates to consumer usage, the studios are avoiding further scrutiny of the special protection the DMCA gives them. It's a smart strategy because, as of now, the vast majority of people don't even know that there is a legal difference. At worst, they think that companies like Apple are trying to get them to buy downloaded movies from ITMS by not making DVD rips available in iTunes. They don't even realize what's behind it. I have no doubt that lawsuits against users would indeed get enough folks to stand up and take notice.
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
08/12/09
@danger the pirate (now with google voice!): It's marijana.
08/12/09
08/12/09
05/08/09
05/08/09
05/07/09
Since I'd love to show this instructional video clip on my own website, I've set up my camcorder and am recording it off the Giz site, and then will import it into iMovie and export it in a web-compatible format I can upload to my site. Works like a champ!
Then, if anyone sees it on my website and would like to show it on theirs, I'd be happy to lend them my camcorder along with instructions so they can tape it from my site and get it up and running on their site in no time at all!
This digital technology... it's amazing what it can do!
05/07/09
So, apparently, the MPAA is fighting the extension and/or expansion of the exemption, saying that this idiotic technique is suitable for classroom purposes. I don't know about most teachers, but I sure don't have time to set up a camcorder to capture a TV screen and get substandard quality.
05/07/09
05/07/09
05/07/09
The advantage here to an educator is HUGE, i.e., to already have the pertinent sections edited and pieced together ready to show.
05/07/09
If there were a device to similarly convert the digital video to analog, and then back to digital, strictly for the purpose of downgrading quality by a negligible generation of d/a/d conversion, I wonder if that would pass their test? After all, the whole purpose of this ridiculous contraption is to artificially cause generational loss of quality.
Since that's what seems to pacify the MPAA, they might as well just release a video plug-in for teachers that adds noise and distortion to video clips used in the classroom since it would have the same effect.
Or for teachers who are less video savvy, perhaps the MPAA could just supply bags of scratched up sun glasses for students to wear in class whenever the teacher shows a video, to replicate generational loss without the fuss.
05/07/09
05/08/09