@The Lab: you read my mind. mama owes me a birthday present for october. if we can zip up to ny for a few days to see this exhibit, i'll call it square. anyway, she likes gadges as much as i do. :)
Sorry Giz, somethings are better left gas. Also, shifting is a good thing. No one wants an 'auto' motorcycle. If they did, they would sell more of them.
@dzazter: Agreed. Ask Honda how many requests they get for Hondamatics.
Learning to shift is part of the learning process; it keeps the novice rider in check. Those wanting to just jump on a bike and blast into traffic have this obstacle of a gearbox and have to use a bit of hand-eye-foot coordination to use it.
@dzazter: First, there aren't that many automatics. Second, they're considerably more expensive, especially as options on larger, more expensive bikes.
Third, look at the dramatic increase in sales of motor scooters, particularly higher powered models, which are in fact "auto".
Sorry, but I think there's a market out there, just as there was a market for that new-fangled automatic transmission in cars, which in turn lowered the barrier to entry and allowed a lot more people to drive.
@ghmlco: Maybe these people that aren't coordinated to drive manual, just aren't coordinated to drive period? I did a study in a college marketing class about automobile insurance, at the time (about 12 years ago) the incident statistics for drivers of manual transmission were much lower per person than a driver of an automatic - not distorted by number of automatics vs. manuals. (yet no discount on driving a manual)
Basic motorcycles now are more powerful than ever. All but the most powerful auto or CVT scooters have far less power than the least powerful motorcycles. Years ago, 350 to 400CC motorcycles were common, now, except for a handful of bikes, displacement for a "beginner" bike is at LEAST 500CC. A burgman only puts out ~35 HP, that is HALF of what most beginner motorcycles put out. The new DN-01 comes to mind when thinking of a big, expensive, heavy, powerful automatic motorcycle - and the thought of fleets of these scares the begeezus out of me.
Honestly, in my state, we have a education course for riding, for "free" (it is paid for with motorcycle registration, permit and license renewal fees) - as such, it is IMPOSSIBLY hard to get a license outside of this test. A proliferation of cheap powerful automatic motorcycles would offset that nice balance - can't wait til my insurance bill reflects that.
Learning to drive a manual transmission on a bike is part of the cost of admission.
@Lizard_King: To be honest with you, I find this whole line of reasoning a bit strange. I don't see how having a manual transmission on a vehicle is a plus. It's just a side effect of the design. The function of a transmission (leaving aside the clutch aspect for a moment) is to adapt the revolution rate and power curve of the motor to the desired speed and power of the vehicle. For example, if the power plant of a vehicle could rev from 0 to 20,000 RPM and deliver enough power to drive the vehicle over the entire range of revs, then a transmission wouldn't be necessary. As it turns out, electric motors *have* that characteristic and only lack the ability to rev fast enough to deliver highway speeds (for the time being). When I let off the throttle of my electric bike, it just stops. From a standstill, I can yank the throttle back and take off like a rocket. Why introduce a relatively complex clutch and transmission when they aren't required? I've owned a couple off gasoline powered bikes in my time and I hardly noticed the manual gearing and clutch... the operation became automatic anyway and I forgot about it. My electric bike only has a throttle, and it's just as much fun to drive... except I wish it could go faster. I figure that last bit is just a matter of improved batteries and motors.
@craighyatt: This is in reply to the last comment about a marketable "need" for automatic bikes. Electric bikes will become more prevalent, and as automatic scooters permiate the market more, there will be no need for manual.
However, the control of the engine range at speed of a gasoline burner is the main benefit. I have an automatic bike in my garage actually, a sandcast CB750 with a 1978 CB750A engine and transmission. The transmission is more than a side-effect, other than control of gearing range (I am smarter than any auto I've driver, and can shift faster), complexity and maintenence along with cost are other issues.
@Lizard_King: Sorry. Didn't realize you were talking about gas burners exclusively. As to "I am smarter than any auto I've driven, and can shift faster" .. I was going to bring that up, but my post was already too damn long. ;) I do understand the joy of running through the gears. It's a visceral thing, so I agree on that level. I have also found times when an automatic (SUV) doesn't work as well as manual because its algorithms aren't smart enough: driving in snow and mountain driving come to mind.
On the EV side of things, I love getting off the mark at a stoplight way, way faster than conventional vehicles. Not only do you have the super-high torque at low revs, but no shifting delay. Mine is a pedal assist bike with a front hub motor. I kind of enjoy the looks I get when I go from 0 to 25MPH on what looks like a regular bicycle while the cars are still warming up. :-)
@ripfire: Regenerative breaking requires a motor/generator to produce power. Since there is only one motor on the bike, and it is connected to the rear wheel, the only possible regenerative breaking is through the rear. Now if it were a 2-wheel drive, dual swing-arm bike, that would be amazing, smart, better, and very, very expensive.
The other option is to have two motors; one connected to each wheel. This would provide the greatest possible power, but no one has really figured out the transmission to make that work perfectly.
Everything about that sounds awesome. Too bad it's fugly.
A slight notch down in top speed from a 600cc bike, but I don't break 150mph on mine all too often. I'd really like to know the rear wheel horsepower or torque specs.
@nutbastard: I agree with 80. Even if you'll only travel less than 40, you'll need plenty of leeway in case the battery doesn't charge as much as a new one.
09/16/09
Full Disclosue: I have poor impulse control
09/16/09
09/16/09
09/16/09
Learning to shift is part of the learning process; it keeps the novice rider in check. Those wanting to just jump on a bike and blast into traffic have this obstacle of a gearbox and have to use a bit of hand-eye-foot coordination to use it.
09/17/09
Third, look at the dramatic increase in sales of motor scooters, particularly higher powered models, which are in fact "auto".
Sorry, but I think there's a market out there, just as there was a market for that new-fangled automatic transmission in cars, which in turn lowered the barrier to entry and allowed a lot more people to drive.
09/17/09
Basic motorcycles now are more powerful than ever. All but the most powerful auto or CVT scooters have far less power than the least powerful motorcycles. Years ago, 350 to 400CC motorcycles were common, now, except for a handful of bikes, displacement for a "beginner" bike is at LEAST 500CC. A burgman only puts out ~35 HP, that is HALF of what most beginner motorcycles put out. The new DN-01 comes to mind when thinking of a big, expensive, heavy, powerful automatic motorcycle - and the thought of fleets of these scares the begeezus out of me.
Honestly, in my state, we have a education course for riding, for "free" (it is paid for with motorcycle registration, permit and license renewal fees) - as such, it is IMPOSSIBLY hard to get a license outside of this test. A proliferation of cheap powerful automatic motorcycles would offset that nice balance - can't wait til my insurance bill reflects that.
Learning to drive a manual transmission on a bike is part of the cost of admission.
09/17/09
09/17/09
However, the control of the engine range at speed of a gasoline burner is the main benefit. I have an automatic bike in my garage actually, a sandcast CB750 with a 1978 CB750A engine and transmission. The transmission is more than a side-effect, other than control of gearing range (I am smarter than any auto I've driver, and can shift faster), complexity and maintenence along with cost are other issues.
09/17/09
On the EV side of things, I love getting off the mark at a stoplight way, way faster than conventional vehicles. Not only do you have the super-high torque at low revs, but no shifting delay. Mine is a pedal assist bike with a front hub motor. I kind of enjoy the looks I get when I go from 0 to 25MPH on what looks like a regular bicycle while the cars are still warming up. :-)
09/17/09
09/17/09
@Lizard_King: Just bragging. :-)
02/04/09
Why rear? Most of the braking is done on the front breaks.
02/04/09
The other option is to have two motors; one connected to each wheel. This would provide the greatest possible power, but no one has really figured out the transmission to make that work perfectly.
02/04/09
02/04/09
02/04/09
02/04/09
.....................
02/04/09
150 miles worth of power...
02/04/09
02/04/09
02/04/09
02/04/09
also conspicuously missing is the ashtray and the glove box.
02/04/09
/sarcasm
02/04/09
02/04/09
02/04/09
02/04/09
02/04/09
A slight notch down in top speed from a 600cc bike, but I don't break 150mph on mine all too often. I'd really like to know the rear wheel horsepower or torque specs.
02/04/09
well expect the torque curve to be flat, in any case.
02/04/09
02/04/09
80 mile round trip, 40 is still a bit weak IMO.
02/04/09
02/04/09