It's sad that such an important issue has essentially boiled down to futile, ranting arguments between the "OMG Save The Golden Unicorn Ice Rat" camps and the "Don't You Believe a Goddamn Word These Liberal Commie Hippies Say" camps. It fuels bad science and worse rhetoric from both sides.
@Segador: I totally agree with you. This reminds me of Sir Francis Bacon and his declaration against the mixing of science and religion. Politics is the new religion.
@the real that guy dave: I also am not a fan of mixing politics with gizmodo. I come here to escape politics and read about awesome stuff, good deals and crazy japanese shit.
@Segador: I attempted to respond with a lengthy post but deleted the whole thing cuz I really like how polically-neutral (Giz appropriate) your comment is. I'll keep it much more simple by saying I agree.
@the real that guy dave: Isn't that kind of the same way global warming should be too? The whole problem with the argument is that both sides are arguing for power and money so who knows what the real facts are.
This thread of comments is literally the sanest, most even-handed non "wharbllgarbbl other side blarghablah" online discussion on this topic I have seen in the last week and a half. Kudos.
@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: It isn't, but the source code for such programs used to display the data gathered could be altered to reflect biased information. Sadly I have seen some of the source code, and indeed there were even comments left by the authors in it that indicates that the data was in fact being manipulated.
Lite: hates Illinois Nazis promoted this comment
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@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: on one hand, yeah, that's the inherent problem with "data" - you can pretty much make it say anything you want. I'm getting the drift that there was some..."heavy handed" manipulation if you will, in order to show a point or what have you.
@nachobel: You know what I object to? People that literally over-use the word literally. Whenever people say that to me I simply respond with, "As opposed to figuratively." at this point.
A big problem is that Gore and others push AGW based on the "consensus" of climate scientists rather than the data itself, so the exclusion and/or suppression of dissent revealed by the emails becomes much more important, and frankly egregious. The AGW crowd's argument is that all reputable scientists agree; the corollary is that anyone who disagrees won't be reputable for long, and that includes some very well credentialed scientists.
Playing games with their data, as was revealed in those emails, is completely unacceptable, given the context.
Being secretive can fly if you're dealing with something inconsequential. But when you're also actively lobbying for serious (hundreds-of-billions-of-dollars serious) regulation of the global economy, it behooves you to behave transparently and release your data so the rest of the world can see that you're not making everything up.
Part of the scientific process is repeatability. If your data and analysis are solid, then they should be able to withstand independent scrutiny. If they aren't, why are we basing such important decisions on them?
There's always been this issue in science. When the topic at hand becomes a hot-button issue, then data exclusion, manipulation, misrepresentation, and even (though rarely) falsification are more common, simply due pressures that human beings are naturally susceptible to. To succeed, to vindicate oneself, etc.
Climate change is a HUGE one these days. While there's some really great science being done regarding it (both with data supporting climate change theories as well as with data NOT supporting them), there is also a hell of a lot of BAD science regarding it (also in both camps). Egos get tied up (again, in both camps) into the issue, its popularization, it sensationalism, and its politics. Sad, but true.
Whether or not the "skeptics" are actually presenting solid scientific data is a tough call these days, because the journals are legitimately biased towards pro-climate-change research. There have been many complaints, editorials, and even fights about this. Most people just don't want to hear it. Just think about that one: people (journal editors/reviewers), for some reason, don't want to hear about any scientific studies that may bring essentially GOOD NEWS.
Anyway, I could go on forever about this, how the worlds of academic research and scientific journals are beyond skewed, so I'll just stop here.
@Gordonium: Good points. But you forgot to add the part about "follow the money'. They are up their asses in corruption at the very highest levels and are playing the money game for all it's worth.
There are lot of untold Faustian bargains in this political passion play and a lot of these organizations and their toadies owe their souls to big government.
Pull the lid off these creeps. They've been hiding behind the perceived, almost mystical sanctity of "academia" for too long.
@Walljasper: Yes, money is a huge incentive to produce results, too. Throw enough money into research proving one point, and you'll get a paper supporting that point. Big Tobacco and Big Oil have been doing that for decades. Investigate the entirety of the grant- or privately-funded science, and you'll find that it's across the board.
I should add, so I don't sound like too much of a finger-pointing dick, that it's (obviously, thankfully) not like that with every scientist/group.
@stevegiblin: "If you're going to give me lip like that son, telling my script is not right then the customer is not right, he's talking bloody bollocks!" #email
I'm also fighting against the scammers in Nigeria, but unfortunately I do not have the adequate resources and would require substantial fundings. With your help we can stop these people and bring them to justice. Please send any donations you can to:
Aaron Ewedafe
45a island road, Lekki
Kano, Nigeria, 23405
@Kaiser-Machead:
Hello and God blessings to you Kaiser Ewedafe. I hope I am finding you in good health, though as you know I have not met you with in person. I will happily to support You're cause to help the fight nigeria. Please let me know of you banking information such as routing and account.
Jesus Google, you're top 3 in Email... maybe you can give us fucking push now? The lowest one on the damn chart offers one of the most superior features that you continue to lack. #creditscores
@Barclay Hygaard: Thanks for that link. I looked into it, but it requires you to enter it in as MS exchange, which I'm already using for my business email.
Why can't they simply enable push for all users the way Yahoo does? #creditscores
I use Yahoo and Hotmail just because they are web based and my credit score is higher than this chart even goes. Once again, I screw up the "norm". #creditscores
@Curves: I fail to understand that logic since GMail is also web based. I've used GMail from the beginning, dumping my hotmail and yahoo accounts. They were just horrible email clients. #creditscores
@gemcosta: Just a personal preference since I am anti-google. Too much of a Big Brother feel for me. I have a Gmail account, but rarely use it, and in fact, have it auto forwarded to a yahoo account. #creditscores
@Curves: If you use the internet, you're using Google. Practically every single page you go, anywhere (including this one), is using their Analytics package.
11/25/09
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@the real that guy dave: @DH405:
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That's about the best I can do.
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Way to go, Giz commenters.
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I bet this is extremely prevalent.
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11/25/09
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11/25/09
Being secretive can fly if you're dealing with something inconsequential. But when you're also actively lobbying for serious (hundreds-of-billions-of-dollars serious) regulation of the global economy, it behooves you to behave transparently and release your data so the rest of the world can see that you're not making everything up.
Part of the scientific process is repeatability. If your data and analysis are solid, then they should be able to withstand independent scrutiny. If they aren't, why are we basing such important decisions on them?
11/25/09
Climate change is a HUGE one these days. While there's some really great science being done regarding it (both with data supporting climate change theories as well as with data NOT supporting them), there is also a hell of a lot of BAD science regarding it (also in both camps). Egos get tied up (again, in both camps) into the issue, its popularization, it sensationalism, and its politics. Sad, but true.
Whether or not the "skeptics" are actually presenting solid scientific data is a tough call these days, because the journals are legitimately biased towards pro-climate-change research. There have been many complaints, editorials, and even fights about this. Most people just don't want to hear it. Just think about that one: people (journal editors/reviewers), for some reason, don't want to hear about any scientific studies that may bring essentially GOOD NEWS.
Anyway, I could go on forever about this, how the worlds of academic research and scientific journals are beyond skewed, so I'll just stop here.
11/25/09
There are lot of untold Faustian bargains in this political passion play and a lot of these organizations and their toadies owe their souls to big government.
Pull the lid off these creeps. They've been hiding behind the perceived, almost mystical sanctity of "academia" for too long.
11/25/09
I should add, so I don't sound like too much of a finger-pointing dick, that it's (obviously, thankfully) not like that with every scientist/group.
10/23/09
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10/23/09
It's about time... #email
10/23/09
10/23/09
Aaron Ewedafe
45a island road, Lekki
Kano, Nigeria, 23405
Many thanks
10/23/09
10/23/09
Hello and God blessings to you Kaiser Ewedafe. I hope I am finding you in good health, though as you know I have not met you with in person. I will happily to support You're cause to help the fight nigeria. Please let me know of you banking information such as routing and account.
Thank you and please do the needful.
10/20/09
10/22/09
[googlemobile.blogspot.com]
10/22/09
Why can't they simply enable push for all users the way Yahoo does? #creditscores
10/20/09
Who let the riffraff in? Look, just....just give them one of the leftover hamburgers and tell them to get lost! #creditscores
10/20/09
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Embrace the Goog, come on. :P #creditscores
10/20/09