To everyone saying that doing this isn't illegal -
You're all WRONG! You bought the software and you agree to the terms. You can't be going around violating EULA because you feels like it. Contracts are binding and breaking them is against the law. I know this for a legal fact.
For Mossberg to tell people to go out and do this is illegal. He's not allowed to and Article 1 of the Constitution says he cant because that's not what free press means. He needs to go to jail.
How would Mostberg like it if people downloaded his articles from the web without buying a copy of the Wall St. Journal? He wouldn't because that is STEALING!
That's what Mossberg is telling people to do though. He's telling people to STEAL!! And he's telling them how and that is Aiding And Abetting and he can be locked up. At the very least he's doing PIRACY or Conspiracy to Do Piracy and that is a Federal Crime.
Someone needs to censer Mossberg because he is telling people to do crime. Just like breaking a contract is illegal violating a EULA is illegal. Anyone who does this deserves to goto JAIL!
@OMG! Ponies!: To play the defense lawyer's side to the Mossberg claim:
"You _can_ save the extra $140" is not the same as saying "You _should_ save the extra $140".
Mossberg is just pointing out what's possible.
For example: "Here's a tip: You can kill someone quietly by holding a pillow over their face for a few minutes" is entirely true, but is not a call-to-action.
EDIT: If you were being sarcastic, then I retract that.
Also, I agree that violating the EULA is wrong. Disseminating information on how to violate the EULA is just peachy with me though.
Seriously, Mossberg from WSJ? Pogue from NYT? Mainstream media doesn’t know jack about technology let alone an EULA unless some kid from their staff filled them in.
If we listened to them we would all be using Firefox as our search engine and Hackintosh’ing our MB’s by installing Windows 7 on them.
@UnderLoK: You have obviously never met, spoken with or worked with Mr. Pogue. He is an extremely knowledgeable person who is willing to spend time to help anyone he is around and a class act on top of that. I've seen him enter an Apple Store, spend time with a few people and thank EVERYONE BY NAME on his way out. And no we all did not where name tags.
@incubushead: No I'm 100% serious. Unless they have aged like fine wine their articles are a complete waste of time unless you are clueless about technology because they too are clueless. Writing about technology and understanding it are two completely different things and it shows in their work. Since Mossberg was the topic I’ll just pop a couple quick examples down.
"With the generous help of my company’s IT folks, I tested this feature, and it worked very well..."
You didn’t know how to set it up but you tested it. Must have been a serious test I’m sure because of all the detail he went into over contacts, calendar, and the rest.
"especially since, at many companies, relatively few of these folks are Mac experts. In my case, an Apple employee had to help my IT colleagues and me to get it going. But you likely won’t have that aid."
Had to call Apple for help, sure sounds like a guy I would listen to when it comes to technology.
"Apple already had the best computer operating system in Leopard, and Snow Leopard makes it a little better. But it isn’t a big breakthrough for average users, and, even at $29, it isn’t a typical Apple lust-provoking product."
The best computer operating system… Is that a joke? Had he said "best consumer operating system" I could buy that. I wouldn’t necessary agree, but it’s feasible. When you go outside of the home consumer that statement is a complete load of BS as there are a slew of OS’s that offer business far more than OSX does. Do you think OSX runs the web?
Sorry man, but these guys are journalists that review technology. They aren’t geeks where it just so happens that they can write. When it comes to tech, mainstream media is not where you go.
@UnderLoK: As I try to read what you typed it all seems to be summed up by "THEM MEDIA IS EVIL AND TRYING TO CONTROL YOU SHEEPLE."
These people are working at respected news papers and make their money reviewing and researched everything technology. It seems to me like they took a $29 Snow Leopard upgrade disk, put it in a Tiger machine and it worked, JUST AS THE ARTICLE SAYS. Glenn fucking Beck could say that and it doesn't make it any less true no matter how much of an ass he is.
All the references of screw ups you make seem to be ripped off of those inept Fox News clips done by people who are reading off of cards. It's one thing to insult people who have no business talking about technology, it's another to insult people who make their living doing it just because it's "main-stream media."
You sound like a huge tool shrugging off something just because it's in a well-respected, oft read news paper. Both these men have been around the block a few times and both have proven they know what they are talking about. Stop judging media outlets just because of their popularity and actually fucking read something for once and maybe you can make statements like that without looking like a child.
@rg129798: What does meeting him have to do with anything? I never said he was an asshole… I have read his articles and that is all there is to it. It’s great that you think of him as a celebrity, but in his field, he isn’t an expert.
Just because you work for a big name and people know you by name doesn’t automatically mean you are knowledgeable to the level which we (people of Giz, Ars, Engadget, OSNews, HardOCP, and god forgive me, Tom’s) expect. If articles that barely scratch the surface and do not go into any valuable detail or explain in depth why they say what they do, then they are perfect for you.
@lostarchitect: Take off the fanboi hat, I don’t hate Apple. Feel free to look through my comments, I dog on them and their decisions from time to time, but that is because I like them. They are like that hot chick in high school you treat like crap so she will like you. You don’t make up lies, but you don’t go easy on her either.
@Maori_Yelir: Read it? Do you honestly think I haven't? If you read what I said you would have even seen me bother quoting the article in question.
You can call me a 33 year old child all you like, but the fact remains that a journalist reporting technology that doesn’t appear to fully understand it results in fiction being portrayed as fact. This EULA thing is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to many of their articles. Even IF Apple changed gears on the Tiger thing, that still doesn’t change anything. This one article has 4 problem areas which alone should raise questions about quality.
@doctorSpoc: Obviously you must be one of their readers. Why would you need to hack into a server you have an account on?
@davebach: I agree with you 100%! The portion I question is their ability to do a thorough review of a product and I do not question their ability to "dumb down" technology in a way that the masses can easily understand. I know fell well that they write great articles, but it’s the information that they convey which is the problem.
@UnderLoK: Exactly! You are judging their knowledge on articles written for the masses, who are not at the same level of you. If you had ever spoken with or worked with Pogue you would never say he "Knows Jack about technology."
@rg129798: Their articles are flawed I said… I don’t need to meet anyone to judge their knowledge from their work. Again, they are great at "dumbing down" technology; it’s their knowledge of technology outside of buzzwords and a basic understanding that is in question.
@UnderLoK: You're just back-pedeling now. Maybe my comments were too storng and I apoligize but you basically acknowledge that they know what they are talking about and then discredit that in the same sentence. I'm sure one on one any either Mossberg (I realize I put Wallberg before, I just love Marky Mark so much) or Pogue would be able to more than match your understanding of the products they report on. Dumbed down articles do not discredit their knowledge or the knowledge of their contacts. Just because it's a mainstream outlet doesn't mean they just hire morons to report in written word.
Now if you are refering to say the Fox News tech analyst I'd agree with you, he's a talking head who is fed information taken straight from sources that include these two men that you seem intent on discrediting. When you go about insulting the media though you really can't just paint with such a wide brush to say that every main stream source is instantly invalid just because it's written for less knowledgable people. It's not that simple.
@Maori_Yelir: Am I talking to myself? I'm not backpedaling. Let me try this again. They are skilled journalists with a knack for dumbing down technology. The question is the knowledge their material is based on (their technical knowledge in that it is limited at best judging from their articles) which leads to inaccuracies and opinion rather than fact. I’m not sure how many other ways I can word this, do you not speak English (I’m not being a smart ass I’m being serious)? Maybe me saying that they are good journalists and the fact that they don’t know technology is the part that is getting you. Being a journalist is more than knowing everything about what it is that you are talking about. It’s word play, attitude, and the ability to make your audience feel a connection with you. That is what they both have. People’s responses prove that because they are taking my response personally. It’s like I said they were seen taking a wiz on Jobs liver or something.
I never said they were idiots, I would bet money there are a slew of people around here that know more about tech than you do, does that make you an idiot? Of coarse not, but don’t sit there and compare 2 mainstream journalists that aren’t in the know to the people who are. Pogue talks pretty candidly about subjects from time to time (maybe it’s lost in the translation since he doesn’t actually type the words he says) and that is when it becomes clear. You can sit there and defend him in that he is an EXPERT until you are blue in the face and it won’t change a thing.
Edit: I was wondering where your comments were coming from and I just noticed that you didn’t reply to me, yet I guess it was directed at me? You honestly think this is only about those two basically saying "ignore the EULA"? Look, you obviously love the guy and that is why they have him. The fact remains that if you don’t mind good Tech News with a healthy dose of misinformation they are perfect for you and that is that. I don’t hate them, I don’t think they are idiots, but I also know they are not experts which is where all of this stemmed in the first place.
@UnderLoK: I guess what I take offense with is the automatic "mainstream = bad" remarks and the fact that neither you nor I really can know their level of expertise based on their articles but you automatically go to a point of view that they don't know dick beyond what they type.
If you are reporting for a news paper who's main business is international news and politics you have to write from a perspective that is lower than the knowledge you or I have, this we agree on. The disagreement that I have is that the most likely know a lot more than that shows because in order to dumb something down it has to begin on a high point. I don't think the type of publication should discredit knowledge they may not be able to convey in a way that most people can read. The way I am reading your replies you seem to assume that they have a lower understanding than people who write articles in publications aimed at end users and in some, if not most cases this may very well be true but I don't think it should be assumed by comparing articles to each other.
None of the misteps you seem to point out in Mossbergs article (And I admit he's the weaker of the two I am defending) really shows a lack of understanding in my opinion. Just because it may take an extra step to upgrade Tiger to Snow Leopard that he was unable to do on his own doesn't make the point he's trying to make invalid. I'm sure some of the tricks you know where taught to you by other people, it's pretty much the same situation here. So, when a $29 disk works just like a $149 disk I really don't think that warrants a discussion on their knowledge or skill in the field when all that really needs to be said is that the $29 disk works like the $149 one, it's a very narrow article.
I think the major point I try to make is some lacky may not have had to just fill them in with the details of the EULA and they may very well know what hackintosh is and how the internet works on their own accord. These men, as has been said by many, may not be the simple talking heads you assume they are and to keep an open mind to their greater knowledge beyond their articles. It gets on my nerves when people attack popular things just for being popular without any intelligent reasoning besides it being 'main-stream' or written in terms more simple than what you are capable of understanding.
@Dillinger23: Linux runs the web not Unix and OSX is based on BSD which is Unix and that is not Linux. They are not the same thing.
Most sites you visit are LAMP boxes or some variant (swap the "P" for your flavor, Ruby, J, JS, etc) there of. Then you hit asp ISS crap and after that a ton of .netthisthatandtheother. Linux and Windows dominate the web. I have little knowledge of IIS as Linux can't be beat (in my experience which is 90% RHE and 10% RH pre enterprise).
@UnderLoK: From my understanding, you're far more likely to see windows used for hosting web applications in corporate networks, than you are to see it used on the web proper. RAD is its primary advantage, I believe, and it's quite good for that -- Personally I rather use LAMP for the web.
@planetarian: I have yet to work at a company that didn't run IIS, however I only manage the servers and leave IIS to the dev's (aside from config/management). Outside of work I have always run lamp or lamj on RH.
Currently I work in a sharepoint house and a large one at that, but luckily my boxes aren't web servers ;)
Instead of stealing from Steve Jobs, couldn't you also say Apple is trying to rip off consumers by tricking them into buying something they don't nessesarily need?
I was wondering this for some time now. Glad to see that it's true. Although I think that all Tiger users shouldn't buy the Leopard upgrade, simple because that's wrong. I'm glad to get it for $30 but seriously just pay what you have to pay based on what OS you have now. Stop trying to get around everything and pay less.
Apple should have, somehow, make this to were Tiger users couldn't use the Leopard upgrade.
@MF350z: Wanting, at least, a silver star!: Oooor, perhaps, something where Tiger users don't get totally shafted by an extra $110 for just being 1 version out of date?!
What the crap makes Apple think they could get away with that in the first place? A point upgrade even costing people money is ridiculous enough. The iPhone gets a huge technical upgrade and it installs for free. An operating system gets a point update and Apple shafts select users for $140? Come on, wake up, smell reality.
Tomorrow we will hear about how Walt will call up Jobs, and Jobs being the forgiving caring man that he is will accept his apology. Much like he did Captain Needa's.
Doesn't matter. Just don't expect iLife '06 which came with a Tiger Mac to work very well with Snow Leopard. Or really I should say, don't expect any updates from Apple addressing incompatibility issues.
Here's another "secret" given to me by a certified Apple tech: The only difference between the single user pack and the family pack is the sticker on the box.
@GutterIsATool: but doesn't it have something to do with paying for licenses? maybe they don't have anything in the software that prevents the use of the same install disc on multiple machines, but if it came to it, it's probably the documentation in the family pack that you possess that covers more than one install.
@benko29: It really makes no difference. Apple will fully support the hardware, regardless of the OS. I don't pay for family packs simply because there's no REAL reason to. Nuts to licenses.
I have a feeling Jobs is going to open an iChat session with him, and the last words he hears is going to be: "... You've betrayed me for the last time"
Has anyone confirmed whether it's possible to do a clean install of Snow Leopard from the $29 upgrade disc on a newly formatted hard drive?
I ask because I own Tiger but *cough*have Leopard installed*cough* and would like to do a clean format and install. I think I would feel a little bit better having installed the OS at least semi-legally, rather than... errr... *cough*cough*
@Obsidian: Yes, it works fine. Snow Leopard is just like any previous Mac OS installer - self-contained. Though, the installer has changed a little. Now you have to open Disk Utility (from the install disc) in order to erase an old partition for a clean install. Otherwise it defaults to an upgrade.
Here's the bit that I, mac fanboy that I am, have a problem with: "Unlike the upgrade process Microsoft is requiring to get to Windows 7 from Windows XP, the snow Leopard upgrade preserves all your files, settings, and programs where they previously existed." Now, I know the adoption rate for Leopard is greater than that of XP, but is it really fair to make this comparison? Or can Tiger users do a simple upgrade process as well?
08/27/09
You're all WRONG! You bought the software and you agree to the terms. You can't be going around violating EULA because you feels like it. Contracts are binding and breaking them is against the law. I know this for a legal fact.
For Mossberg to tell people to go out and do this is illegal. He's not allowed to and Article 1 of the Constitution says he cant because that's not what free press means. He needs to go to jail.
How would Mostberg like it if people downloaded his articles from the web without buying a copy of the Wall St. Journal? He wouldn't because that is STEALING!
That's what Mossberg is telling people to do though. He's telling people to STEAL!! And he's telling them how and that is Aiding And Abetting and he can be locked up. At the very least he's doing PIRACY or Conspiracy to Do Piracy and that is a Federal Crime.
Someone needs to censer Mossberg because he is telling people to do crime. Just like breaking a contract is illegal violating a EULA is illegal. Anyone who does this deserves to goto JAIL!
08/28/09
"You _can_ save the extra $140" is not the same as saying "You _should_ save the extra $140".
Mossberg is just pointing out what's possible.
For example: "Here's a tip: You can kill someone quietly by holding a pillow over their face for a few minutes" is entirely true, but is not a call-to-action.
EDIT: If you were being sarcastic, then I retract that.
Also, I agree that violating the EULA is wrong. Disseminating information on how to violate the EULA is just peachy with me though.
08/27/09
If we listened to them we would all be using Firefox as our search engine and Hackintosh’ing our MB’s by installing Windows 7 on them.
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"With the generous help of my company’s IT folks, I tested this feature, and it worked very well..."
You didn’t know how to set it up but you tested it. Must have been a serious test I’m sure because of all the detail he went into over contacts, calendar, and the rest.
"especially since, at many companies, relatively few of these folks are Mac experts. In my case, an Apple employee had to help my IT colleagues and me to get it going. But you likely won’t have that aid."
Had to call Apple for help, sure sounds like a guy I would listen to when it comes to technology.
"Apple already had the best computer operating system in Leopard, and Snow Leopard makes it a little better. But it isn’t a big breakthrough for average users, and, even at $29, it isn’t a typical Apple lust-provoking product."
The best computer operating system… Is that a joke? Had he said "best consumer operating system" I could buy that. I wouldn’t necessary agree, but it’s feasible. When you go outside of the home consumer that statement is a complete load of BS as there are a slew of OS’s that offer business far more than OSX does. Do you think OSX runs the web?
Sorry man, but these guys are journalists that review technology. They aren’t geeks where it just so happens that they can write. When it comes to tech, mainstream media is not where you go.
08/27/09
These people are working at respected news papers and make their money reviewing and researched everything technology. It seems to me like they took a $29 Snow Leopard upgrade disk, put it in a Tiger machine and it worked, JUST AS THE ARTICLE SAYS. Glenn fucking Beck could say that and it doesn't make it any less true no matter how much of an ass he is.
All the references of screw ups you make seem to be ripped off of those inept Fox News clips done by people who are reading off of cards. It's one thing to insult people who have no business talking about technology, it's another to insult people who make their living doing it just because it's "main-stream media."
You sound like a huge tool shrugging off something just because it's in a well-respected, oft read news paper. Both these men have been around the block a few times and both have proven they know what they are talking about. Stop judging media outlets just because of their popularity and actually fucking read something for once and maybe you can make statements like that without looking like a child.
08/27/09
Just because you work for a big name and people know you by name doesn’t automatically mean you are knowledgeable to the level which we (people of Giz, Ars, Engadget, OSNews, HardOCP, and god forgive me, Tom’s) expect. If articles that barely scratch the surface and do not go into any valuable detail or explain in depth why they say what they do, then they are perfect for you.
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@Maori_Yelir: Read it? Do you honestly think I haven't? If you read what I said you would have even seen me bother quoting the article in question.
You can call me a 33 year old child all you like, but the fact remains that a journalist reporting technology that doesn’t appear to fully understand it results in fiction being portrayed as fact. This EULA thing is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to many of their articles. Even IF Apple changed gears on the Tiger thing, that still doesn’t change anything. This one article has 4 problem areas which alone should raise questions about quality.
@doctorSpoc: Obviously you must be one of their readers. Why would you need to hack into a server you have an account on?
@davebach: I agree with you 100%! The portion I question is their ability to do a thorough review of a product and I do not question their ability to "dumb down" technology in a way that the masses can easily understand. I know fell well that they write great articles, but it’s the information that they convey which is the problem.
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Now if you are refering to say the Fox News tech analyst I'd agree with you, he's a talking head who is fed information taken straight from sources that include these two men that you seem intent on discrediting. When you go about insulting the media though you really can't just paint with such a wide brush to say that every main stream source is instantly invalid just because it's written for less knowledgable people. It's not that simple.
08/27/09
I never said they were idiots, I would bet money there are a slew of people around here that know more about tech than you do, does that make you an idiot? Of coarse not, but don’t sit there and compare 2 mainstream journalists that aren’t in the know to the people who are. Pogue talks pretty candidly about subjects from time to time (maybe it’s lost in the translation since he doesn’t actually type the words he says) and that is when it becomes clear. You can sit there and defend him in that he is an EXPERT until you are blue in the face and it won’t change a thing.
Edit: I was wondering where your comments were coming from and I just noticed that you didn’t reply to me, yet I guess it was directed at me? You honestly think this is only about those two basically saying "ignore the EULA"? Look, you obviously love the guy and that is why they have him. The fact remains that if you don’t mind good Tech News with a healthy dose of misinformation they are perfect for you and that is that. I don’t hate them, I don’t think they are idiots, but I also know they are not experts which is where all of this stemmed in the first place.
08/27/09
If you are reporting for a news paper who's main business is international news and politics you have to write from a perspective that is lower than the knowledge you or I have, this we agree on. The disagreement that I have is that the most likely know a lot more than that shows because in order to dumb something down it has to begin on a high point. I don't think the type of publication should discredit knowledge they may not be able to convey in a way that most people can read. The way I am reading your replies you seem to assume that they have a lower understanding than people who write articles in publications aimed at end users and in some, if not most cases this may very well be true but I don't think it should be assumed by comparing articles to each other.
None of the misteps you seem to point out in Mossbergs article (And I admit he's the weaker of the two I am defending) really shows a lack of understanding in my opinion. Just because it may take an extra step to upgrade Tiger to Snow Leopard that he was unable to do on his own doesn't make the point he's trying to make invalid. I'm sure some of the tricks you know where taught to you by other people, it's pretty much the same situation here. So, when a $29 disk works just like a $149 disk I really don't think that warrants a discussion on their knowledge or skill in the field when all that really needs to be said is that the $29 disk works like the $149 one, it's a very narrow article.
I think the major point I try to make is some lacky may not have had to just fill them in with the details of the EULA and they may very well know what hackintosh is and how the internet works on their own accord. These men, as has been said by many, may not be the simple talking heads you assume they are and to keep an open mind to their greater knowledge beyond their articles. It gets on my nerves when people attack popular things just for being popular without any intelligent reasoning besides it being 'main-stream' or written in terms more simple than what you are capable of understanding.
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Most sites you visit are LAMP boxes or some variant (swap the "P" for your flavor, Ruby, J, JS, etc) there of. Then you hit asp ISS crap and after that a ton of .netthisthatandtheother. Linux and Windows dominate the web. I have little knowledge of IIS as Linux can't be beat (in my experience which is 90% RHE and 10% RH pre enterprise).
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Currently I work in a sharepoint house and a large one at that, but luckily my boxes aren't web servers ;)
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The G4 now runs perfectly fine...it's WiFi is much better than that of the lame Mac mini's (which dies after a few minutes due to heat).
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Apple should have, somehow, make this to were Tiger users couldn't use the Leopard upgrade.
08/27/09
What the crap makes Apple think they could get away with that in the first place? A point upgrade even costing people money is ridiculous enough. The iPhone gets a huge technical upgrade and it installs for free. An operating system gets a point update and Apple shafts select users for $140? Come on, wake up, smell reality.
08/27/09
On the iPhone subject, what about the Touches (dunno about 1st gen iPhones)?
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I ask because I own Tiger but *cough*have Leopard installed*cough* and would like to do a clean format and install. I think I would feel a little bit better having installed the OS at least semi-legally, rather than... errr... *cough*cough*
I'm sorry if I'm poor.
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