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12/01/09
I hadn't read this article, but found, regardless of price, the JBL was by far the best sounding.
12/01/09
12/01/09
12/01/09
12/01/09
"oh yeah, two random guys just happened to discover a long-thought-destroyed CIA manual which has in it details about the DOUBLE PLUS BLACK OPS AREA 51 SUPER TRIPLE-PROBATION SECRET MK ULTRA 2 PROGRAM."
only 16 dollars on amazon.com
12/01/09
12/01/09
I say mission accomplished.
11/30/09
I get in the car, get where I'm going and say to myself "damn I should have seen if there were any little cherries to pick up on the way here. I'll try on the ride home."
Then I get home and say, "fuck."
11/30/09
That said, Montreal is starting to come together - especially now that there are a few other equally hooked Montreal Wazers onboard :)
11/30/09
11/30/09
I appreciate a free-wheeling debate. I like them more, in person, so I hope to meet you over a virgin Pina Colada (I'm a buccaneer who doesn't drink grog, go figure...) and we can sling education statistics and obscure references from social science at each other (be ready to discuss ethnomethodology and radical constructivism, or else I will drink your milkshake.)
James Marcus Bach
11/28/09
Le sigh.
11/28/09
How many people does @jamesmarcusbach employ/manage that are highschool dropouts, and how many of them have college degrees?
It's easy to dismiss the value of an education by citing the people who have made a difference without one. How about listing the many who *do* have degree's that are equally important?
I think that @jamesmarcusbach has made a fundamental flaw in his argument. He says that those on "intellectual autopilot" only study when they're forced to. That's incorrect. They only study subject they care *nothing* about when they're forced too. I don't know of *any* human being that doesn't have passion about *something.* All the author is saying, is taht in 1987, the people working for apple didn't really care much about the job they were doing. That's human nature. Clearly, @JMB was different, he cared about his job, and that's why he excelled.
To his point about college: College isn't for everyone--its unfortunate that not having a degree has a stigma in most societies. If you have a great idea, or have the desire to start a business, or don't want to waste time in college because you already know what you want to do, then by all means work your ass off and make your dreams come true. Some of the most successful businessmen on the planet don't have MBA's let alone formal education.
But if you're dropping out because you don't feel like finishing school, and you're just gonna see what happens, well then thats not a very smart plan. The average salary for a college grad vs a highschool dropout speak for themselves.
11/29/09
This one guy was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and he took advantage of that fact. He might not have a degree, but I bet he probably worked just as hard as someone who does.
11/29/09
11/29/09
Dumbshit.
11/30/09
Meaningless for what? You mean for the purpose of making choices in your life? Most people never climb Mount Everest. Statistically, it's unlikely that any particular person will succeed in a climb of Everest. But if you were interested in climbing it, would you study statistics showing that millions of people don't climb it every year, or would you rather study the people who do climb it, and talk to them, and learn from them?
I prefer to hire people who are self-educated. It's a bias of mine. I also like hiring loud people, since I'm nervous around quiet people, and men, since I'm comfortable with men. But I've also learned that diversifying my team is vital to the quality of my work. So, I work to transcend my biases so that I can have a powerful team. It's a social and legal virtue, too, but really, I seek diversity because diversity works.
My comment on intellectual autopilot is just my empirical experience and the meaning I've made of it. Your mileage may vary, but I promise you I experience this almost daily and it is a major factor in my perception of my success.
You say it's not a smart plan to "see what happens." But you left out some words. You should have added "by the rules of the game I think I'm playing and by the values and temperament I have." Of course, for people with a different temperament than yours, say someone like me who once went to the principal's office for provoking a teacher to physically assault him, a different plan might be smart. Or for someone with a different set of values, such as me, who cannot feel happy saying "yes, I will follow stupid ceremonial rules that dictate who gets a degree, instead of being judged by people I respect on the merits I genuinely demonstrate in subject matter I care about" it may be best to seek the fresh air on out there.
If you don't know what other people's lives are all about, don't impose your parochial values them. Let them choose the path that works for them. Let there be abundance and freedom, not fear and cynicism.
12/01/09
The salary difference between a high school dropout, a high school graduate, and a college graduate are SIGNIFICANT enough to make an educated decision on what will pay off.
Yes, everyone says go to college, to get a good job. The reason, is that college grads make a lot more over their life time than non college grads. Your experience as a high school dropout is an aberration, not the rule. The lesson from your story isn't "Kids who go to college are suckers, be a drop out and win at the game of life." It should be "I followed my own path, and I made my own success."
What is lost on people like you who espouse "I did it this way, and I succeeded" is that you would have succeeded in *anything* you decided to do. Had you gone to college, I would imagine you would have graduated Summa Cum Laude with the highest honors. People wired like you, are driven to succeed. Had you decided to be a musician, you'd likely be a recognized artist.
But not everyone is. And not everyone is driven that way. Not everyone equates success with climbing the corporate ladder, or running their own company, or even climbing mount everest.
You've also misjudged my temperament. Wouldn't someone like you, who doesn't conform to the norm, sit back and question someone like yourself when they came up with an idea. Seems like the person you claim you are, wouldn't take someone else's word as the gospel. And for the record,I was suspended a few times (not just called into the principals office), given detention for insubordination, barely graduated high school (stupid graduation requirements), and recently left a 200k income to start my own business.
We're arguing the same thing, essentially: people shouldn't conform to a path just because they're suppose to. The difference is that I'm not deriding those that do decide to conform to that path, because as you eloquently said in your last pp:
"If you don't know what other people's lives are all about, don't impose your parochial values them. Let them choose the path that works for them. Let there be abundance and freedom, not fear and cynicism."
11/27/09
11/28/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
I think his assertions that people in degree programs are somehow more likely to be on autopilot is false. He offers no proof, just anecdotal observation.
I think he seriously downplays the disadvantage of not having a degree. For instance, the medical research I am interested involves a deep understanding of both chemistry and medicine. You can't learn these things in a home lab with a ill-gotten cadaver. You need an MD and PhD, not because they are pieces of paper but because the programs provided an environment to experiment that would simply be illegal and impractical to recreate at home.
11/27/09
There's nothing wrong with having a degree. But not having one doesn't automatically condemn a skilled, experienced person to joblessness. That's the point.
(Naturally, as you pointed out, the medical field is one where this tends to not apply. I doubt too many people are considering a homebrew medical degree.)
11/27/09
In my field, I've found many people do that. I can count on this phenomenon. I, who love what I do, am driven to master it. If I loved chemistry and medicine I would master that, too.
When you say "you need an MD and PHD, not because they are pieces of paper" you are not engaging my argument. I'm trying to separate schooling and education. I'm focusing on education, which may be a social process, but ultimately must be personal. I recommend the book The Science of Describing for an interesting take on this. The leading naturalists of the 16th century, many of whom were professors at medical schools, commonly complained that their students applied themselves poorly to the material. They couldn't force their kids to learn well.
Of course, Charles Darwin seems a counter-example, too. He famously dropped out of medical school. He refused to go to the lectures because he found them so boring, but then he made himself into perhaps the most respected naturalist in the world at the time-- writing the definitive works on barnacles.
Or consider the career of Joseph Priestly (see The Invention of Air) who innovated in chemistry and electricity, as you may recall. He was self-educated. So was Voltaire, when he ran his salon and became one of the first great intellectual super-stars.
I understand that you believe in a good education. So do I. To get there, we need to think of it in terms beyond suckling at the teat of external authority. Even though, we both agree, schooling can be helpful.
11/27/09
IMHO, it seems that the author is taking this further, casting serious doubt on the utility of degree programs and intentionally ignoring that his approach simply would not work in many, many fields.
11/27/09
Second, I think gizmodo needs to confer upon you an honorary commenter star STAT.
To engage your point directly, I take issue with the assertion that "some people sit back on their credentials and proceed on the assumption they are "educated" rather than striving to master their art". Perhaps this is true with undergraduate degrees but from what I've seen in the two graduate programs I have been associated with, no one graduates who hasn't striven to become a master of their art. That's probably why they call them master's degrees.
I understand schooling and education are different. However it is very difficult to become an expert in many fields if you do not pass through the schooling process. Likewise, it is very difficult to pass through a graduate curriculum at a major university without also becoming an expert in the subject matter.
11/30/09
I don't agree with you about schooling. Maybe this is because I know what I mean when I say "schooling" and I suspect you mean something different. Perhaps if you saw my education up close you would say, as a professor I hired once said "Oh, that's what we do in our two-year humanities program. You'd like it."
You might enjoy this tidbit:
"The Faculties called liberal [i.e., free] have lost their old time liberty, and are devoted to a slavery so complete that long-haired youths shamelessly possess themselves of the offices in these Faculties, and beardless boys sit in the seat of the Elders, and those who do not yet know how to be pupils strive to be named Doctors. And they themselves compile their own summaries, reeking and wet with [their own] further drivellings, and not even seasoned with the salt of the philosophers. Neglecting the rules of the Arts and throwing away the standard works of the Makers of the Arts, they catch in their sophisms, as in spiders' webs, the midges of their empty trifling phrases. Philosophy cries out that her garments are rent and torn asunder; she modestly covers her nakedness with certain carefully prepared remnants [but] she is neither consulted by the good man nor does she console the good woman."
-- Stephen [Bishop] of Tournai, in his letters directed to the Pope,
laments the ruin of the study of sacred literature, of Canon Law and the Arts, and, blaming the professors, implores the hand of Apostolic
correction. (1192-1203.)
(As cited in: Readings in the History of Education Mediaeval Universities / Norton, Arthur O.)
11/27/09
11/27/09
Being a self-teacher is so much easier with the internet. Back in the day if you wanted to learn something you had to go to the library and check out books. Know what a card catalog is? Be glad if you don't. Now you can learn just about anything you want to by googling it.
11/28/09
11/27/09
I started two software companies in high school (software for the blind on Apple II's with speech synthesizers and physics educational software). Both very successful. Started a desktop publishing business and freelance graphic design business after dropping-out of UC Berkeley. I have finally settled-down for the past 17 years with my last company - manufacturing and distributing neuroscience research equipment.
Like other commenters, the hardest part has been getting the courage to call myself an electrical engineer when I know I don't even have a bachelors degree.
I credit SteveWoz with lots of my inspiration, and great hardware/software to run it on.
If the job doesn't exist, or they won't hire you, do it in your living room!
11/28/09
But, not everyone has the desire and drive to run their own company.
11/30/09
My father told me to start my own company when I was 16 and build incredible software by myself. I didn't feel up to that challenge. But it was reasonable advice all the same, and I did work toward it in ways that bore fruit later on-- I ended up doing a lot of studying about library science.