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Where does it say that someone should get rich as Croesus just because they can sing and play the guitar? "Artists" and pro athletes, need to get a grip on reality.
@Gary_7vn: And what do you do for a living? There are a lot of poor artists that, if they were paid for every copy made of their music, might actually be able to pay the bills.
@rjtemple: Re-DEEK-ulous argument. We've had musicians for THOUSANDS of years. How did they survive before people were able to buy "copies" of their music? I'll tell you, they PERFORMED for it. If you are good, people will pay to come see you play. This whole business model of selling "copies" of your music is less than a hundred years old, and it's officially coming to an end. I have a number of friends in bands that GIVE their music away in the hopes that you will like it and come down to the bar they are playing at.
@Stickarm: Uh...what? So...Mozart had an orchestra...so...uh...again...WHAT? Mozart probably made a lot of money by having people come and see that orchestra play his music? He then probably had to pay that orchestra for their performance as well. So...um...again...what?
@ninjamurf: Mozart was primarily a composer. That is, he wrote music that could be copied and performed later.
I like the way you're happy to suggest that artists should only be paid for performance and then you can say that Mozart must have "had an orchestra" and that he "probably made a lot of money."
Think of orchestras as the iPod of Mozart's time -- if you had one and you had a copy of Mozart's score, you could listen to music. The only people who had iPods in the late 1700s, though, were the rulers of the day -- royalty, government and the extremely rich. These performances were not mounted for Mozart's finanacial benefit and any monetary gain did not go to him. They wouldn't even let him sell t-shirts at the door!
Mozart died destitute and was buried in a mass grave.
"So...um...again...what?"
So...um... it seems likely that a sustainable system for cultivation of the arts doesn't look like just PERFORM OR DIE! The situation just might be a little bit more complex than that.
Here's a bit of optimism: These days people can have their own orchestras, almost literally. A motivated individual can produce work that in even the recent past would have required resources that were not generally accesible -- recording and distribution, primarily. You can have your own recording studio, radio station, television channel and record store. So while things are screwed up at the moment, they're also changing pretty fast and I think that what we'll find in the near future is that artists of all sorts (not just performing artists) will be able to make a respectable living off of a system that everyone will feel good about supporting. Indeed, I think that even given how much people argue about this subject, the idea that a self-sustaininng system is within reach (one in which artists rewarded in a meaningful but not indulgent manner for their work) is something on which everyone generally agrees.
hmmm, not sure how this would work exactly since in my state insurance covers the driver as well. So I can have non-owners insurance and drive someones car that doesnt and I would be covered.
It cost nothing to copy a song unlike stealing an album. Of course when you buy an album you are paying for the songs since the cost of making a CD probably isn't very much. But still copying songs is more like sneaking in the theater. Is it a bad thing to do? Probably. But the whole reason I dislike RIAA is that they try to punish music rippers for their 'potential loss'. How do you quantify that? If you sneak in a theater you probably weren't going to pay for it in the first place. Either way this is a pretty light crime. You'll either get thrown out of the theaters or they'll make you pay full price if you get caught. The movie industry doesn't know that there were extra eyes watching the movie nor are there any impact from these people doing so.
When you copy music, it cost nothing for the music industry. Its not like they pay for stocking excess copies of music online, its not like they need to order more copies to 'stock the shelves' in itune. so how are they justifying 100s of thousands of dollars of monetary loss? Will grocery stores sue me for 'potential loss' if I plant my own organic garden that I planted by cloning grocery store tomatoes?
Crucifixion really does describe what is happening here and is totally not fair for the guy who is getting sued. He isn't responsible for all our sins, yet he's paying for them because RIAA wants to make a business out of suing people. If they are really honest about 'protecting the industry' they should significantly reduce fines and return them to the artists much like how parking tickets pay for our roads and highways. RIAA is like the crooked cop who takes bribes and does nothing to improve the traffic infrastructure.
Well, at least they stopped suing people and their new strategy of working with ISPs won't work because ISPs don't want to loose customers since most of them are sharing files, especially for their premium customers who pay more for the higher bandwidth. I don't know what the right way to deal with piracy is, but everything the RIAA is doing are not working. Perhaps they should think about rewarding loyal customers instead of punishing 'potential customers' who weren't your customers in the first place. They should provide incentives for buying new songs because no matter what they do, people will always find ways to rip music and share them.
Yes, copying a CD is like sneaking into a theater, but that's not the issue. We're talking about filesharing.
If you rip a CD, the "crime" ends there, since it will likely be for personal use. But if you then go ahead and distribute the items on P2P, then it's like passing a copy to a couple of your friends, and they in turn copy out to a couple of their friends, and it keeps going. You are enabling a distribution network. You now have an act orders of magnitude above lifting a CD from a store.
I have no love for the RIAA, but at least you can see some of the justification for these crazy high penalties.
@dbc: thats not justified unless they can prove that he shared those 30 songs with a large number of people and it doesn't appear that they take that into account which is ridiculous. I never used Kazaa (i had switched to BT's at that point) but I'm sure there's a way to know how many people you've uploaded the entire song too. If that's the case, then I find it hard to believe that it equals out to $22,500 per song. Hell at $1.25 a song (i'm just making that up based off a high priced iTunes song) that's 400 people he would have had to upload one song to. Now the question is, did he really upload each song 400 times. If he was on his school's network, it's very possible but I have a feeling that the number is actually lower.
@jp182: Your math is off. In fact it's WAAAAY off. At $1.25 a song and a fine of $22.5K per it's not same as 400 people uploading it, but 18,000! Just saying. The RIAA still sucks ass.
I've got a better idea. Sue the person for the exact cost of one album. So, this guy may walk away paying a few hundred bucks. Then announce to all pirates that they have a "bargain" window to step forward and pay for the media at retail cost. They would get a hell of a lot more community support and, most likely, more money. We all know this guy will just declare bankruptcy and not pay a dime. The RIAA are staffed by morons.
In regards to the commenter who suggests firing the RIAA lawyers...the RIAA are LAWYERS. It's an entity that exists in a vacuum subsided BY lawyers for lawyers.
@ Eric Swenson : @Heffae: yeah, looks like this one is civil. I know the RIAA recently got a criminal case in their favor. Yeah this guy could file, but then its up the the bankruptcy judge in his district. He still could be screwed
@switchblade saints: Right...but you can't be screwed if you don't have the money. Period. The amounts the RI(f**king)AA are asking for are ludicrous. Good luck collecting. What a weird and distorted corporation the RIAA is. They MUST be getting the real oporating capital from the record producers themselves.
I always suspected that they weren't really trying to collect money to help artists and labels, but really? "Any funds recouped are re-invested into our ongoing education and anti-piracy programs." And they spend millions of dollars just to collect that $675,000. Hey RIAA, I've got an idea. Fire your lawyers, give your money to the artists (because they're the reason you're supposed to exist), and then help create a stable and profitable free music streaming service. Then we'll all be happy (except the lawyers).
My dream: The computers of RIAA heads and their children/wives scoured for illegal songs and movies by internet hackers. Not because its right, but because it would be awesome if it worked.
@lunarstudio: don't you know? downloading a song on the internet is a crime worse than murder. you kill someone, you get food and a bed for a few years. you download a song, you lose all your money and worldly possessions and must spend the rest of your life paying off debt.
@lunarstudio: when you are found guilty in criminal court and are fined, that debt is exempt from bankruptcy. He can file, but it wouldn't change the fact he would owe that money.
We can all thank our lucky stars that the public library was invented before the RIAA came along. Just think... all the copyrighted material you want, for free!
I think that last part is the worst part of it all. One of the RIAA lawyers said after the trial "We appreciate that Mr. Tenenbaum finally acknowledged that artists and music companies deserve to be paid for their work. From the beginning that’s what this case has been about."
If that's true, then why isn't a cent of this money going to the artists? This thing hasn't been about artists or music companies being paid for their work. It's been about a crusade to fight off the coming invasion of digital music long enough for the old hats to learn how to control it. If they were really concerned with artists getting paid, they'd be finding ways for artists to get paid.
Get your eyes off Tenenbaum and Thomas and start actually helping your artists.
@OCEntertainment: I agree. If my band was famous enough to matter, I would be protesting the RIAA right now. If people are illegally downloading my music, I'm the one getting screwed out of money, as well as my distributor and other related persons. We should all get paid, not that worthless RIAA.
But the RIAA is there to protect publishers, and the publishers are losing potential profit because of piracy.
That's not to say that every pirated song amounts to one real potential purchase, but you have to admit that, were piracy not around, a lot of people would be buying a lot more music.
@ReconToaster: There is absolutely no evidence to support this. I mean, it's likely, but you can't prove it. Most people who pirate will tell you that if they didn't download it, they wouldn't buy it.
RIAA and MPAA is the epitome of bad practices from money hog corporations.
When I hear those acronyms I always think about those door to door tax collectors that used to exploit poor workers back in dark ages europe or something like that.
It is a clear case of abuse of power, crucifying some people to serve as example to others, using fear tactics and infecting society and politics with their venon.
I won't enter the whole "piracy is bad" discussion here again, since it's a long one, but just to reiterate my feelings: FUCK RIAA and MPAA... the world will be a better place when both associations cease to exist.
The model is broken. The music industry assumes that they are entitled to millions and millions in income. I call bullshit. How about we pay doctors, nurses and teachers millions and millions and give musicians a living wage? that way we'll have a very healthy and educated population and only the musicians who really have a calling to make music producing work.
The way things lie now, big business produce manufactured boy-band music that only lingers in the memory for a week or less and our kids are being educated by morons whilst the most successful students are graduating and going into the financial sector (and look how that has turned out).
Is society doomed?
An album isn't worth what they want you to pay. That's why people are downloading it for free. Have a look at the iPhone app store - they know what they're doing - an app for a dollar please - that's the equilibrium price for anything in that category. You'll pay a dollar for an app without blinking. $10 or more for an album you can listen to for free on youtube? I don't think so - c'mon music industry, who are you fooling?
Stop fighting the P2Pers, you're the ones out of sync, not them. Stop letting the tail wag the dog.
wild homes loves you but chooses darkness! promoted this comment
Edited by (Starman) Starman at 08/01/09 6:03 PM
(Starman) Starman was starred
(Starman) Starman was unstarred
@AnalysisDialysis (and a MudkipNDS): It won't happen, but it certainly should. The RIAA should certainly recognise that while piracy is wrong-- and that fighting against is fair enough-- they no longer have any fair expectation of being able to preserve what was a truly broken, and horribly out-of-touch, business model in the late 1990s. If they adopted more progressive thinking, and tried to find middle ground that music fans could become agreeable to, they'd put themselves-- and their artists-- in a much better position. This isn't to say I condone piracy (even if I occasionally grab a thing or two, particularly if my copy of it is old and in bad shape) but I think we can all agree that piracy exists largely because people do not agree with the music industry's favorable business model. We want ARTISTS to be well-compensated-- but that's not the reality of the business. It's going to change, in time. We're just watching the RIAA whine and complain during the inevitable transition.
08/02/09
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I like the way you're happy to suggest that artists should only be paid for performance and then you can say that Mozart must have "had an orchestra" and that he "probably made a lot of money."
Think of orchestras as the iPod of Mozart's time -- if you had one and you had a copy of Mozart's score, you could listen to music. The only people who had iPods in the late 1700s, though, were the rulers of the day -- royalty, government and the extremely rich. These performances were not mounted for Mozart's finanacial benefit and any monetary gain did not go to him. They wouldn't even let him sell t-shirts at the door!
Mozart died destitute and was buried in a mass grave.
"So...um...again...what?"
So...um... it seems likely that a sustainable system for cultivation of the arts doesn't look like just PERFORM OR DIE! The situation just might be a little bit more complex than that.
Here's a bit of optimism: These days people can have their own orchestras, almost literally. A motivated individual can produce work that in even the recent past would have required resources that were not generally accesible -- recording and distribution, primarily. You can have your own recording studio, radio station, television channel and record store. So while things are screwed up at the moment, they're also changing pretty fast and I think that what we'll find in the near future is that artists of all sorts (not just performing artists) will be able to make a respectable living off of a system that everyone will feel good about supporting. Indeed, I think that even given how much people argue about this subject, the idea that a self-sustaininng system is within reach (one in which artists rewarded in a meaningful but not indulgent manner for their work) is something on which everyone generally agrees.
08/01/09
08/01/09
08/01/09
When you copy music, it cost nothing for the music industry. Its not like they pay for stocking excess copies of music online, its not like they need to order more copies to 'stock the shelves' in itune. so how are they justifying 100s of thousands of dollars of monetary loss? Will grocery stores sue me for 'potential loss' if I plant my own organic garden that I planted by cloning grocery store tomatoes?
Crucifixion really does describe what is happening here and is totally not fair for the guy who is getting sued. He isn't responsible for all our sins, yet he's paying for them because RIAA wants to make a business out of suing people. If they are really honest about 'protecting the industry' they should significantly reduce fines and return them to the artists much like how parking tickets pay for our roads and highways. RIAA is like the crooked cop who takes bribes and does nothing to improve the traffic infrastructure.
Well, at least they stopped suing people and their new strategy of working with ISPs won't work because ISPs don't want to loose customers since most of them are sharing files, especially for their premium customers who pay more for the higher bandwidth. I don't know what the right way to deal with piracy is, but everything the RIAA is doing are not working. Perhaps they should think about rewarding loyal customers instead of punishing 'potential customers' who weren't your customers in the first place. They should provide incentives for buying new songs because no matter what they do, people will always find ways to rip music and share them.
08/02/09
Yes, copying a CD is like sneaking into a theater, but that's not the issue. We're talking about filesharing.
If you rip a CD, the "crime" ends there, since it will likely be for personal use. But if you then go ahead and distribute the items on P2P, then it's like passing a copy to a couple of your friends, and they in turn copy out to a couple of their friends, and it keeps going. You are enabling a distribution network. You now have an act orders of magnitude above lifting a CD from a store.
I have no love for the RIAA, but at least you can see some of the justification for these crazy high penalties.
08/03/09
08/03/09
08/01/09
In regards to the commenter who suggests firing the RIAA lawyers...the RIAA are LAWYERS. It's an entity that exists in a vacuum subsided BY lawyers for lawyers.
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If that's true, then why isn't a cent of this money going to the artists? This thing hasn't been about artists or music companies being paid for their work. It's been about a crusade to fight off the coming invasion of digital music long enough for the old hats to learn how to control it. If they were really concerned with artists getting paid, they'd be finding ways for artists to get paid.
Get your eyes off Tenenbaum and Thomas and start actually helping your artists.
08/01/09
08/01/09
But the RIAA is there to protect publishers, and the publishers are losing potential profit because of piracy.
That's not to say that every pirated song amounts to one real potential purchase, but you have to admit that, were piracy not around, a lot of people would be buying a lot more music.
08/01/09
08/01/09
When I hear those acronyms I always think about those door to door tax collectors that used to exploit poor workers back in dark ages europe or something like that.
It is a clear case of abuse of power, crucifying some people to serve as example to others, using fear tactics and infecting society and politics with their venon.
I won't enter the whole "piracy is bad" discussion here again, since it's a long one, but just to reiterate my feelings: FUCK RIAA and MPAA... the world will be a better place when both associations cease to exist.
08/01/09
The way things lie now, big business produce manufactured boy-band music that only lingers in the memory for a week or less and our kids are being educated by morons whilst the most successful students are graduating and going into the financial sector (and look how that has turned out).
Is society doomed?
An album isn't worth what they want you to pay. That's why people are downloading it for free. Have a look at the iPhone app store - they know what they're doing - an app for a dollar please - that's the equilibrium price for anything in that category. You'll pay a dollar for an app without blinking. $10 or more for an album you can listen to for free on youtube? I don't think so - c'mon music industry, who are you fooling?
Stop fighting the P2Pers, you're the ones out of sync, not them. Stop letting the tail wag the dog.
08/01/09
I overheard a coworker talking about using limewire still. jeebus.
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And then watch as the artists start leaving the respective companies in your organization to form another group to finally counter you.
08/02/09
04/21/09