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New York, 10:21 AM
Mon Dec 21
25 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Odin Odin
    06:47 AM

    In reply to Kids, Tell Your Career Advisor You Want To Make $1m A Month Creating iPhone Apps
    Shame you need something running OSX to develop for it. I'd very much like experimenting with my iPod Touch but there's no way I'm buying a Mac and I don't think the new PC I just bought is hackintoshable.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of clak clak
    07:16 AM

    @Odin: At least Apple offers something inexpensive like the iPod Touch to develop on. If you're developing for Palm or Android, you have to buy one of their phones and sign up for a $2000+ a year contract.

    To develop for the iPhone, you can buy an iPod Touch ($200) and a Mac Mini ($600).

    It's a lot cheaper developing for the iPhone.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment clak was starred clak was unstarred
    Image of Maltose Maltose
    07:21 AM

    @Odin: Android?
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment Maltose was starred Maltose was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    07:28 AM

    @clak: Both Android and iPhone (not 100% on the Palm, couldn't be fussed looking it up) SDKs are bundled with emulators though. While they're not the ideal tools for testing they still give you a platform to work from. The difference is that Androids SDK runs on any and all operating systems while the iPhones is locked to OSX which in turn is locked (primarily) to Macs.

    Plus the iPhones feature set differs from that of the iTouch so if you wanted to do any proper development using the camera (for example) you'd still need an iPhone. Also I think you're seriously exaggerating the price of those contracts, even some of the most expensive contracts don't fall in excess of $1000.

    I want to get a Droid (Milestone in the UK) when my contract is up if I can get one for a reasonable enough price.

    Also it isn't really "cheaper" when you have to buy a $600 computer to develop for a $200 platform. Fair enough if you already own a Mac but for everyone else it's just not worthwhile.
     Reply
    Edited by Odin at 12/21/09 7:30 AM Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of macpatrik macpatrik
    07:33 AM

    @Odin: If you want to develop (which I have a feeling that you have no intensions of actually doing) then buy a Mac. Pretty simple.
     Reply
    macpatrik was starred macpatrik was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    07:33 AM

    @Maltose:
    I keep meaning to have a mess about with the SDK when I get around to it but I'll probably be more interested when I have a platform to test it on.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of clak clak
    07:41 AM

    @Odin: Well, you still need a PC to develop for PALM or Android.

    So that's at least another $500. Even if you can get a phone contract as low at $1000. You're still looking at the following:

    $1000 for development phone.
    $500 for a PC

    versus

    $600 for Mac
    $200 for iPod Touch

    That's $1500 versus $800.

    Even without the PC, it's still cheaper to develop for the iPhone ($1000 versus $800), but yeah, the camera app and possibly GPS are the possible exception. Of course, if you're developing a GPS app, you probably have money already.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment clak was starred clak was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    07:45 AM

    @macpatrik:
    I'm a programmer with a full time job right now and a university degree to finish next year. I have no intention of entering in to full time commercial development for the iPhone and therefore the investment of buying a new computer (that I don't particularly want) for such a purpose is simply not worthwhile. That isn't to say that I wouldn't like to give it a go and knock out a few apps as a learning experience or even to try and make a little money on the side. Hence why I expressed that it's a shame that Apple locked it to OSX despite purporting that the App market is "open" (even though that only rings true for Mac owners) .
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of clak clak
    07:50 AM

    @Odin: Your price argument is crap though. That's all we're saying. And it's not a "shame" that Apple locked the SDK to OS X. That's how it works.

    Would you expect Apple to provide you a Windows SDK to develop for a Mac?

    If you want to develop for the iPhone, you buy a Mac, which runs the same operating system. That's how it works. So stop crying about it.
     Reply
    clak was starred clak was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    07:57 AM

    @clak:
    The difference is that if you're even considering development you're going to have (or have access to) a computer already. Considering that the majority of computers are PCs rather than Macs it's significantly more likely your average developer will own a PC. While you can develop for Android on both PC and Mac the same doesn't ring true of the iPhone. Hence if you have a computer already (likely) and it's not a Mac (also likely) you still have to invest a significant amount simply for the development tools.

    I still think you're overestimating contract costs, an iPhone on contract in the UK is just about USD$672 and a decent enough Android phone (HTC hero) is a bit less than that too. If you already have a computer then a phone (whether it be an iPhone or Android handset) to develop on would cost about as much as the computer you're suggesting to buy to develop for (plus the additional $200 investment for the development platform).

    Unless you already have a Mac, don't have a computer at all or are planning on buying a Mac already it's just not as cost effective as developing for Android.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of diverguy diverguy
    07:58 AM

    @clak: Actually it is pretty stupid. 99% of the worlds developers use PC's. Yes, they're doing okay with their miniscule developer base, but they really have locked out the cream of the crop of developers. I've developed software for the Mac. Their development tools are absolutely horrible. They're about 15 years behind visual studio. I agree with the orginal poster. It's a shame. Apple finally comes up with something reasonably useful, and then shoots themselves in the foot.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment diverguy was starred diverguy was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    08:03 AM

    @diverguy:
    This is what I'm talking about, locking the SDK to OSX was just a bad move on their part. Unless you're very serious about developing for the iPhone or you already own a Mac it isn't going to motivate anyone into buying a Mac specifically for that purpose. And it is a shame, the app store could be even bigger if they didn't do this. It's just a poor move on Apples part to try and motivate sales of their other hardware.

    It wouldn't be so bad if there was an easy way to get OSX on a PC a la boot camp (which is what allows Mac users easy access to all Windows specific tools) but that isn't even the case.

    Also <3 Visual Studio.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of clak clak
    08:12 AM

    @Odin: "...the app store could be even bigger if they didn't do this."

    Right, because the App Store is SO SMALL right now.

    /s

    You are not entitled to get everything free or cheap in this world just because you want it that way.

    There are programmers developing games for consoles, who have to pay $2000 for a dev kit and that's after companies like Sony and Nintendo have lowered the price.

    Playstation developers used to have to pay $20,000 to get a dev kit from Sony, so forgive me if I don't feel sorry for you guys. If you can't buy the tools, then maybe you shouldn't be programming. Those are the breaks. If you want to develop for a platform, buy their stuff. If you're not willing to do that, then shut up, but Apple doesn't owe you a SDK on your platform of choice.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment clak was starred clak was unstarred
    Image of ThePriceofEggsinMalta ThePriceofEggsinMalta
    08:26 AM

    @clak: Hoo boy! App store sarcasm! That's the way to start the day!

    I can see your point to some extent, but I feel that you and the OP are arguing different things. He's simply saying it would be nice for casual PC coders to be able to just pick up and run with a readily-available SDK for their machine, and he's suggesting that if this were possible, there would probably be a few more apps on the market (not that it really needs them, but the more people cranking them out, the better).

    You, on the other hand, seem to believe he's just a freeloading, lazy sack who wants Apple to personally deliver a PC SDK to him on a golden hard drive while fanning his balls and feeding him grapes, and you're somehow comparing the casual iPhone developers with people developing for the PS (which is about the time you completely lost me).

    I'm not exactly sure where your vehemence is coming from, but I'd suggest you either switch to decaf, or alternately, find a stronger brew. Regardless, the irrational need to defend Apple that just radiates from some people is one of the many things that drove me to finally switch to Android. Well, that, and I wanted a phone that could actually, you know, make calls.
     Reply
    Odin approved this comment ThePriceofEggsinMalta was starred ThePriceofEggsinMalta was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    08:29 AM

    @clak: Pro tip: Something doesn't have to be small for it to be even bigger. In fact the use of the word "bigger" is a direct implication that it's big already. So I'm clueless as to why you're trying to be needlessly sarcastic about that point.

    Also you fail to realise one key difference between developing for a console and developing for something like Android or iPhone. Consoles are a closed platform, you have to pay to enter that market and it's still at the discretion of the platform maker. Basically only serious commercial companies need apply. The app store (on both android and iPhone) however is purported as a free open market of which there isn't the same level of control over as say the console market.

    And hey did I ever say I was entitled to a Windows SDK? Did I say Apple owes me one? No. I said that it's a damn shame that they don't and it's probably a poor move on their part. I don't feel that they should provide some way of running the SDK outside of OSX (though I would definitely appreciate it if they did) but I'm damn well entitled to feel annoyed that there isn't one.

    Also I can buy the tools, I just spent about £950 on a new PC. However I have no desire to buy a Mac as they don't suit my computer needs. If you think I shouldn't be programming because I don't want to buy a Mac then that's a joke. 90% (at least) of development work for any platform is done on a PC (whether it be running Windows or Linux).

    Anyway I see you've resorted to typical fanboy level insults now so I'll try and leave it at that.
     Reply
    Edited by Odin at 12/21/09 8:30 AM Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    08:35 AM

    @ThePriceofEggsinMalta:
    Damn skippy.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of clak clak
    08:48 AM

    @Odin: Something tells me that you never really were considering developing for the App Store. You just saw an article praising the App Store and by extension, the iPhone and you just wanted to piss on it, so you took the boilerplate complaint used by Apple Haters over the internet.

    You jumped right into the Apple is "overpriced" mantra and just went with it, but without thinking that someone here would challenge you.

    So just so we're clear, anyone reading this will see that you're full of shit. It costs $800 to develop for the iPhone, so spin that as many ways as you like, it's still a lot cheaper than almost every other platform.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment clak was starred clak was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    09:07 AM

    @clak:
    Please go read the comment by ThePriceOfEggsInMalta, you're still getting the entirely wrong end of the stick.

    I fail to even see how you're reading your points into what I've been saying. At what point did I go into the whole "Apple is overpriced" mantra that you claim I did? I haven't once made a point about how Macs are overpriced. The problem is you seem to be getting the mistaken idea that I'm only talking about overall cost, I'm not. I'm talking about additional expenditure. Also while we're on this subject of claiming things are overpriced you quite blatantly made the frankly ridiculous claim that Android handsets cost a ludicrous $2000 a year. Hypocritical much?

    Also if you want to discuss overall cost you could still buy a reasonable development PC and an android handset for the same cost as a Mac + iPhone so I don't know where you're getting this a "lot cheaper" bit from.

    Come back when you decide you actually want to think about what's being said rather than going into default fanboy defensive mode.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of deliciousburglar deliciousburglar
    09:17 AM

    @Odin: what a ridiculous thread.
     Reply
    NorwoodIsMyHero promoted this comment deliciousburglar was starred deliciousburglar was unstarred
    Image of chefgon chefgon
    09:25 AM

    @clak: You can't possibly believe that developing for iPhone is somehow cheaper than developing for Android.

    Requirements to develop for Android are as follows:

    Any computer (if you're a developer of any kind, you already own one that will work)
    Free download of Linux (or use the Windows or OSX installation you were already using)
    Free download of Eclipse IDE
    Free download of SDK
    Free emulator for testing
    $25 to register for the Market

    If you really want to test on a physical device you can buy one direct from Google for $400 with no contract. Connect it to WiFi and you have yourself a much better testing platform than the iPod Touch could ever be, since you get all the hardware like Camera, Compass, and GPS so you're not limited in what kind of program you can make. Plus, it's unlocked and ready to drop in any SIM card for testing apps that use Phone or SMS features.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment chefgon was starred chefgon was unstarred
    Image of jasonsplace jasonsplace
    09:26 AM

    @clak: If you are an Android developer, Google sells unlocked developer versions of the G1 and MyTouch for $399 each. No contract required and you can run it on any GSM carrier. Also, you can develop on Mac OS, Linux or Windows so you can really use whatever setup you already have.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment jasonsplace was starred jasonsplace was unstarred
    Image of Truefire Truefire
    09:39 AM

    @clak: Uh.. android has a public, free virtual machine. You don't need a phone at all.
     Reply
    Odin promoted this comment Truefire was starred Truefire was unstarred
    Image of NorwoodIsMyHero NorwoodIsMyHero
    09:41 AM

    @deliciousburglar: I always like a good dose of computer science geek debates with my coffee in the morning. Just makes me perk right up!
     Reply
    NorwoodIsMyHero was starred NorwoodIsMyHero was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    09:48 AM

    @Truefire:
    Not to mention the iPhone SDK also has an emulator bundled with it.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of deliciousburglar deliciousburglar
    10:07 AM

    @NorwoodIsMyHero: hearted.
    and i hear ya, but the whole complaint about being able to start a business for less than 2K is falling on deaf ears.
     Reply
    deliciousburglar was starred deliciousburglar was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    10:14 AM

    @deliciousburglar:
    I don't recall mentioning wanting to start a business. I'm more interested in doing some casual development work. In fact despite the success stories I think that's a bad idea to have a commercial venture invested solely in the app store. It's simply too volatile and high risk. For indy devs that just want to do a bit on the side and companies that have their bases covered elsewhere though it's perfect. I wouldn't quit my day job to work on it though unless I already had a successful app or series of apps in place. Even then I'd still be worried about the potential risks of investing my sole business into such an open market.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of Jrsy Devil's Advocate® Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
    06:05 AM

    In reply to Kids, Tell Your Career Advisor You Want To Make $1m A Month Creating iPhone Apps
    You think the three-ply is impressive. Wait till you see their toilet.
     Reply
    Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was starred Jrsy Devil's Advocate® was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    12/10/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    Jesus (Diaz), stop trying to link every Apple story with the nigh fictional Apple tablet. Speculating and trying to read relevance into places where there's barely threads to go on is not going to magic it into existence. Leave this Apple Tablet bullshit until actually tangible evidence exists. It's getting tiring hearing about a phantom product.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of whatznext28 whatznext28
    12/10/09

    @Odin: In Jesus (Diaz) defense, if enough people hype up a fictional device, there may become enough of a buzz where the would-be manufacturer of this device may see it as being a good idea to give the people what they're asking for.
     Reply
    Odin approved this comment whatznext28 was starred whatznext28 was unstarred
    Image of Odin Odin
    12/10/09

    @whatznext28:
    The thing is I get fed up over hype after a while but this Apple tablet business on Giz really takes the cake. They're just overhyping something that doesn't even has a confirmed existance. If I was to be generous I'd describe the Apple tablets existance as "likely" at the very very most. Right now though I think "fictional" is a better description for it. I can understand buzzing for a product you really really want to be good but I just can't get behind hyping something that isn't even tangible. It's like hyping up a flying train because some drunk guy said that he might be working on one.

    Plus the fact that even if/when this is actually announced we're going to have to put up with months and months of Giz articles proclaiming it to be the second coming of Christ. I mean as if it wasn't enough reading about how wonderful it's going to be before it's release we have to get pre-announcment pre-hype. I'm honestly at the point where I want it to fail hard, I want it to be the biggest turd of a gadget released this century just to render all this insanely irritating hype bullshit.

    I can get behind looking forward to something and wanting to know all about it and hoping it'll be every bit as awesome as you think it will be. But for gods sake save it for REAL things, Giz has turned the Apple tablet from something I might have been interested in to something I now loathe and will never buy just on principle.
     Reply
    Odin was starred Odin was unstarred
    Image of whatznext28 whatznext28
    12/10/09

    @Odin: I now understand where you're coming from.
     Reply
    whatznext28 was starred whatznext28 was unstarred
    Image of The5thElephant The5thElephant
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    Bump and normal maps? I imagine the iPhone 3GS can handle bump maps, but normal maps might start pushing it.

    Maybe for the tablet or baked in background shadowing?
     Reply
    The5thElephant was starred The5thElephant was unstarred
    Image of Bs Baldwin Bs Baldwin
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    i just want some type of confirmation apple is making a tablet, the pent-up apple fandom is getting near iphone levels on the tubes.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment Bs Baldwin was starred Bs Baldwin was unstarred
    Image of Kaiser-Machead Kaiser-Machead
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    I don't often say that I'm sick of an Apple product, but I'm sick of their tablet, and I don't intend to own one.*

    *upon tablet's release (Apple releases 10" tablet computer, lovingly dubbed the MacTab, and sports a 1.8GHz Core 2Duo ULV processor and NVidia 9400 graphic, running 10.6 Snow Leopard)

    Holy shit! I'll buy three!
     Reply
    Edited by Kaiser-Machead at 12/09/09 8:16 PM Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred
    Image of TheAlmeida TheAlmeida
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    Hey, just imagine sync'ing your ipod pedometer to your Wiifit and... Oh, forget it.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment TheAlmeida was starred TheAlmeida was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @TheAlmeida: I think you just discovered a new use for the Apple Tablet. Wii Fit Balance Board!
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of TheAlmeida TheAlmeida
    12/10/09

    @Nathan Obbards: Other Idea: An app that tells how attractive your feet are by standing on the MacTab
     Reply
    TheAlmeida was starred TheAlmeida was unstarred
    Image of deepakssn deepakssn
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    Is the character in the picture above taken from Wii?
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards approved this comment deepakssn was starred deepakssn was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @deepakssn: Yes, it's a Mii Jobs. Probably taken from Jesus' Wii.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    So, if this is tablet related, then it's an admission that the Tablet will be nothing more than an oversized Touch, something I hope is not true. If this is a dashboard type thing, I can't see it working all that well on such a small screen. It'll be interesting to see where this actually goes.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of reddyroc reddyroc
    12/09/09

    @Nathan Obbards: an oversized touch? *shudders*
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment reddyroc was starred reddyroc was unstarred
    Image of Sandeep Murali Sandeep Murali
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    You know you were thinking about clippy the moment you saw the title, don't you?
     Reply
    Sandeep Murali was starred Sandeep Murali was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @Sandeep Murali: I see you're trying to send an MMS, would you like some help?
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of tatermane001 tatermane001
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    Nintendo does it - Pretty cool.

    Microsoft does it - Seen it.

    Apple does it - HOLY FUCKING SHIT! THIS IS AN AWESOME IDEA! LET ME THROW MORE MONEY AT APPLE!
     Reply
    Evangelion promoted this comment Nathan Obbards approved this comment tatermane001 was starred tatermane001 was unstarred
    Image of bnetter12 bnetter12
    12/09/09

    In reply to Apple Wants Video Game Artist for 3D Characters and Environments
    so if an article says apple it must mention a tablet
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment bnetter12 was starred bnetter12 was unstarred
    Image of sonicsurge sonicsurge
    12/09/09

    @bnetter12: Just like an article about AT&T must dedicate some part of itself to saying how much they suck.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards promoted this comment sonicsurge was starred sonicsurge was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @sonicsurge: Well, you can talk about Apple products without mentioning the Tablet, but pretty much whenever you talk about AT&T you're going to talk about how they suck, because they suck at what their entire company is about.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of sonicsurge sonicsurge
    12/09/09

    @Nathan Obbards: Thanks for getting the joke. <_<
     Reply
    sonicsurge was starred sonicsurge was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @sonicsurge: Sorry, invisible sarcasm tags are hard for me to see sometimes. Oh, ok, I see it now.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of sonicsurge sonicsurge
    12/09/09

    @Nathan Obbards: You can't see the invisible sarcasm tags? They're righthere and over there.

    Clearly, there's something wrong with you or something.

    Wait... I did that all wrong. Maybe I'm confusing sarcasm for emphasis.

    Seriously though, my fault. <_<
     Reply
    Edited by sonicsurge at 12/09/09 7:52 PM sonicsurge was starred sonicsurge was unstarred
    Image of Nathan Obbards Nathan Obbards
    12/09/09

    @sonicsurge: You had me cracking up with that reply.
     Reply
    Nathan Obbards was starred Nathan Obbards was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    12/09/09

    @bnetter12: It doesn't even have to mention Apple. Articles about publishing industries' lame attempts to save themselves? Tablet. Articles about Microsoft's Courier, a justifiably awesome-looking concept with legitimate grounds in reality? Apple tablet. Articles about mods of objects to make the Courier because dude wants it so hard he couldn't wait for a real one? Apple tablet.

    It's insane. It really is.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of nutbastard nutbastard
    12/08/09

    In reply to Aqua Forest 2 iPhone Physics Game Review
    to be fair, move-the-marble-into-the-hole games are vastly superior to get-the-ball-on-a-string-into-the-cup games.
     Reply
    nutbastard was starred nutbastard was unstarred
    Image of zimmi88 zimmi88
    12/08/09

    In reply to Target Makes Cashiering More Tolerable By Turning It Into a Game
    Hmm... they've been doing this for a long time, actually.

    And it's not really much of a game as it is a way for your boss to spy on your efficiency over your shoulder.
     Reply
    zimmi88 was starred zimmi88 was unstarred
    Image of En0s1 En0s1
    12/08/09

    In reply to Voltron iPhone Game Unfortunately Doesn't Require Five People To Play
    THERE IS A GOD! I will be misspending money this evening. Thank you Jason, Thank you Gizmodo.
     Reply
    En0s1 was starred En0s1 was unstarred
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