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The kid won his case. He did not win his case in front of a jury, he did not win his case in front of the court. Amazon settled, he won a settlement, which a judge approved. The settlement applies only to Amazon and its actions. It is a binding settlement only to Amazon. A settlement sets no precedent for any other company. You cannot go to court in Florida and say, "Hey! A kid in Seattle received a settlement on a case with similar facts, therefore I should win here in front of a judge." The judge would laugh at you.
Precedent comes in three types. Binding precedent - a court above you within the same jurisdictional framework made a decision (U.S. Sup. Ct U.S. Circuit Ct U.S. District Ct; U.S. Sup. Ct. State Sup. Ct. State Appellate Ct. State Superior Ct.; otherwise crossover is rare) and their decision is now law. A court on the same level as you - one district court to another - is "non-binding" persuasive precedent and is not binding on the other court, but can be viewed as persuasive that things should go that way. A settlement is not precedent and is rarely persuasive as to what the law should be on a particular set of facts. Try Wikipedia out: [en.wikipedia.org]
So, the phrase "the kid just won in court" really is not proper. The kid "reached a settlement agreement with Amazon.com". This makes a fairly big difference - that is, it is unlikely to directly affect what any other company does. Albeit, most other companies realize that what Amazon did (on accident or not) was utterly stupid.
Okay, enough of a legal lesson, enjoy the fact that a large lawfirm just made al ot of money, yay!
uh huh...so now Amazon will just modify their T's & C's so that by downloading a book you now explicitly agree to grant them the right to remove said work at their discretion, hereby adhering to the provision
"the user consents to such deletion or modification"
Ah, legalese. The language judges use when they want us to think we won.
Thanks goes to Justin Gawronski for going forward with his suit against a big corporation.
Also, a rightful one... which is a rarity these days when it comes to big companies.
And may his example be followed.
Few things are more infuriating than loosing hours of work because some company just decided it's their right to go erasing other people's stuff without permission.
And they say kids don't do anything useful. Thankfully we have law firms that would take a case pro bono if only to make ads that said that they beat Amazon.com
(c) is still the problem. There is no way that protections from confiscation will be equivalent to those accorded to private property when all it takes is Amazon pressing a button. There's a big difference between a judge telling the police to break in your door and take your stuff, and a judge telling Amazon to press delete. And maybe someone who knows more law can say: can a "regulatory order" generally lead to the confiscation of physical property in your house? How easily?
Yeah, because it's the government's job to determine what Amazon can do with their own content on their own device. Thanks government, you've done such a great job with wars, saving up our taxes, and not being socialist, we were just all waiting until you would go over big bad evil Amazon, who actually made a PROFIT while you were spending our taxes to catch mosquitos in the same area as a Senator's summer house. We can all trust you to do what's best for us and the economy, government.
@Kev50027: I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the sheer mountain of stupidity you've managed to condense into two sentences.
Edit: Wow. Remarkably nice job injecting even more moronic drivel. It's not just the unbelievable density of misconceptions, factual inaccuracies, and argumentative fallacies you've managed to fill your words with, but the masterful skill with which you've woven it all together. It's like an adamantine spider's web of stupidity.
@Kev50027: What does this have to do with Obama... he is neither judge, jury, or emperor-elect.....FACEPALM. Its wonderful that you give him so much power, but....
Look if you have disdain for an individual and his administration, provide facts and references to support your weak-minded claims.
It is easy to shout out fallacies; while remaining mentally stunted in order to think you are doing what is considered en vogue amongst your fellow ignorant peers and media select. Likewise it takes the greater INDIVIDUAL to take stock in ones own comments,beliefs and morals; while determining that what he is about to say is based on facts, obtained through due diligence and verified to be true. Otherwise you come off as one of the millions of uneducated "herd", who we the educated and INDEPENDENTLY thinking call a: "dumb ass", "ignoramus", "numb nuts", "mental midget", "intellectually brief", etc...
Your post not only does nothing to further the conversation, it detracts from the article, and is unproductive. Do us all a favor and put a self-imposed moratorium on all of your ignorance and stupidity. Society will thank you for it.
@Kev50027: They aren't renting devices to people, the people are buying them as personal property. It's no longer Amazon's device once that transaction has been made.
They may be able to dictate what documents work on it and how long those documents last, but (as far as I know) they have no legal right to mess with personal data on the device.
@Kev50027: It's the government's job to enforce contract law. Even the most wild-eyed crazy assed head-in-the-clouds libertarian Randroid believes that. I'm sure that the judge's ruling was based upon explicit and implicit contracts that exist between Kindle owners and Amazon.
@Kev50027: Wait it's not the government's job to protect your personal property from theft and damage.
So if I break in and steal your computer you're telling me you won't call the cops because it isn't the government's place to punish those who take what you've bought?
@Cordfucious of Tech Clan: Listen, I own a Kindle and would be pissed if Amazon started deleting stuff off it at random, but my comment was made to create a reaction. Apparently, being the most replied to comment, it worked very well. Most of my comment was not even my personal belief, I just said it because it needed to be said, and I knew it would get a reaction, and I wanted to see what people would say to it.
@Tolgak: True, consumers are purchasing the Kindle, however according to the Terms of Service (TOS) of Amazon, they can delete anything off the device any time they please for any reason whatsoever. It's the same with the Apple iPhone, if the government tells them that some app out there is violating some arcane law, Apple has the right to delete the app off everyone's iPhone and iPod, and remove any personal data without offering a refund for the price or an excuse.
The only thing is that consumers will rebel (which I would) and eventually stop purchasing the device or using Apple's service.
This is how a free market works, but it's not free anymore when the government mandates what companies can do.
@Serolf Divad: The Terms of Service clearly give Amazon the right to do what they did, whether people hate it or not. I'm not saying I support Amazon doing such a stupid thing, I'm just saying they have the right to do so without legal recourse, or paying some idiot kid trying to make a dime off of Amazon's mistake.
Man this is a precedent for Apple and the iPhone app store. Even though I don't own an iPhone I hope that this will apply to them in the future as well.
@UGAdawg:
Apple has never once hit a kill switch on apps that people have already purchased. All those stories you've heard about Apple axing apps is them just removing it from the store, much like retailers can pull things off the shelves.
There is no precedent applicable to Apple here. The action Amazon took and the circumstances that led Amazon to do it is completely different.
10/02/09
Can we use this picture from now on? I keep seeing a color Kindle and it freaks my mind for a second.
10/02/09
The kid won his case. He did not win his case in front of a jury, he did not win his case in front of the court. Amazon settled, he won a settlement, which a judge approved. The settlement applies only to Amazon and its actions. It is a binding settlement only to Amazon. A settlement sets no precedent for any other company. You cannot go to court in Florida and say, "Hey! A kid in Seattle received a settlement on a case with similar facts, therefore I should win here in front of a judge." The judge would laugh at you.
Precedent comes in three types. Binding precedent - a court above you within the same jurisdictional framework made a decision (U.S. Sup. Ct U.S. Circuit Ct U.S. District Ct; U.S. Sup. Ct. State Sup. Ct. State Appellate Ct. State Superior Ct.; otherwise crossover is rare) and their decision is now law. A court on the same level as you - one district court to another - is "non-binding" persuasive precedent and is not binding on the other court, but can be viewed as persuasive that things should go that way. A settlement is not precedent and is rarely persuasive as to what the law should be on a particular set of facts. Try Wikipedia out: [en.wikipedia.org]
So, the phrase "the kid just won in court" really is not proper. The kid "reached a settlement agreement with Amazon.com". This makes a fairly big difference - that is, it is unlikely to directly affect what any other company does. Albeit, most other companies realize that what Amazon did (on accident or not) was utterly stupid.
Okay, enough of a legal lesson, enjoy the fact that a large lawfirm just made al ot of money, yay!
10/02/09
10/02/09
10/01/09
"the user consents to such deletion or modification"
Ah, legalese. The language judges use when they want us to think we won.
10/01/09
Also, a rightful one... which is a rarity these days when it comes to big companies.
And may his example be followed.
Few things are more infuriating than loosing hours of work because some company just decided it's their right to go erasing other people's stuff without permission.
Even though 1984 is worth a second read. :P
10/01/09
10/01/09
10/01/09
10/01/09
10/01/09
The damage isn't just compensation, it's also supposed to deter future infractions. This seems reasonable.
10/02/09
10/01/09
10/01/09
Edit: Wow. Remarkably nice job injecting even more moronic drivel. It's not just the unbelievable density of misconceptions, factual inaccuracies, and argumentative fallacies you've managed to fill your words with, but the masterful skill with which you've woven it all together. It's like an adamantine spider's web of stupidity.
10/01/09
Look if you have disdain for an individual and his administration, provide facts and references to support your weak-minded claims.
It is easy to shout out fallacies; while remaining mentally stunted in order to think you are doing what is considered en vogue amongst your fellow ignorant peers and media select. Likewise it takes the greater INDIVIDUAL to take stock in ones own comments,beliefs and morals; while determining that what he is about to say is based on facts, obtained through due diligence and verified to be true. Otherwise you come off as one of the millions of uneducated "herd", who we the educated and INDEPENDENTLY thinking call a: "dumb ass", "ignoramus", "numb nuts", "mental midget", "intellectually brief", etc...
Your post not only does nothing to further the conversation, it detracts from the article, and is unproductive. Do us all a favor and put a self-imposed moratorium on all of your ignorance and stupidity. Society will thank you for it.
Love
Cordfucious
10/01/09
They may be able to dictate what documents work on it and how long those documents last, but (as far as I know) they have no legal right to mess with personal data on the device.
10/01/09
very well said. i couldn't think of a better way to get that across. +1 to you good sir.
10/01/09
10/02/09
10/02/09
So if I break in and steal your computer you're telling me you won't call the cops because it isn't the government's place to punish those who take what you've bought?
Interesttting....
10/02/09
10/05/09
Thank you for contributing!
10/05/09
The only thing is that consumers will rebel (which I would) and eventually stop purchasing the device or using Apple's service.
This is how a free market works, but it's not free anymore when the government mandates what companies can do.
10/05/09
10/01/09
10/01/09
Apple has never once hit a kill switch on apps that people have already purchased. All those stories you've heard about Apple axing apps is them just removing it from the store, much like retailers can pull things off the shelves.
There is no precedent applicable to Apple here. The action Amazon took and the circumstances that led Amazon to do it is completely different.