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Sarkozy: I'm sorry, but to put our heritage in the hands of a foreign company with ad sponsorship attached is a very unsettling idea, so I'm afraid we can't allow this to go forward.
It is honestly very important that every sovereign country keep their own archives of literature. The only institution that guarantees posterity and a look to the future is a Government.
What the french are up in arms about is that Google went directly to the National Library of France, and no one is precisely sure how (read: money) but for a while it looked like they were going to digitize their collection.
AND despite what Brin says, for a rights holder to have the right to withdraw a book from google books is great, EXCEPT when you regard the collection of a library as the national heritage of a whole country, then the idea of having them online for sale, or remunerating Google by ad revenue starts to seem really fucking horrible. Especially since Google is an avowedly American company, which would then be put in the position of actually storing the cultural heritage of FRANCE.
I'm not even French and just imagining it sort of starts to piss me off.
Imagine walking into your local natural history museum, seeing 1/35 of the only triceratops skeleton in existence (let's say), then seeing a sticker on a bone that says "triceratops brought to you by Google. Please visit our sponsor to see the rest".
Anyhow. The solution is for the French Government to just sack up and pony up the dough and resources. I'm pretty sure they're in the process of doing this themselves. If not, they should be. Google should NOT be in charge of this. Fiction, yes. Popular books, sure. Having a second copy of things... maybe. But be in charge of a National Library collection? Fuck you google. Fuck you.
@Pope John Peeps II: I don't see how Google doing it stops the French from doing it themselves. If the French CAN'T do it, then the best chance it has of letting people see more of its culture is by letting some company that CAN do it.
As well, the article notes that the "digitisation of books would be one of the projects financed by a planned national loan".
So this is just political posturing on Sarkozy's part.
@Sticks Calhoun: Well, I'm not sure what the initial agreement with the library, but one would assume that Google would hold the rights to the digital version, which would then block the planned French government digital version. Without that, Google wouldn't make any money whatsoever.
The BNF is as much to blame for this fiasco. They should have known better.
@Sticks Calhoun: Do ya think Google's gonna do it out of the kindness of its heart, leaving the door open to anybody else go right on and do it? There's contracts, exclusivity...
@AEchinoderm: If you can find something that tells me Google will have all digital rights to the French literature they archive, fine, and it's a terrible idea. But having not seen anything about that, I'm not going to speculate on what might be, only what I see presented in the article at hand.
@Pope John Peeps II: Given how protective France is of its culture, I would be incredibly surprised if it gave up the rights of anything to an American company.
@Pope John Peeps II: can you please enlighten me regarding this statement: "Especially since Google is an avowedly American company. . . " It seems to me that Google, as have many multinational corporations, has long ceased to be bound by any nationally constructed borders . . . that is unless you count "capital" a national border. MANY folks in this country are similarly pissed at what google is doing. I don't know the exact terms but if Google dosen't block others from scanning their own collections I don't see the problem. Perhaps they expect Google to give THEM the money to scan their own collections and not share the fruits with Google? If they want their collection to be digitized but they don't want big bad Google to "strip their cultural heritage" they shut up and do it themselves.
@cptodd: What possible business purpose could there be other than proprietary rights to the digital collection? Without that, Google would basically be proposing a multi-million dollar charity project.
And Google certainly IS an american company. It's founded and run by Americans, it operates with an american mentality, and obviously isn't beholden to any sort of continental concerns, or need to particularly respect any other countries. Your idea of "multinational" is a little specious - and sounds informed by science fiction.
@Pope John Peeps II: Okay, but what is to stop both the French and Google each having their own online copy of the library? Surely multiple online copies of something is better than only one source?
@iamnotafish: Again, why would google allow this? If they had a digital copy whose revenue was based on a) advertising and b) purchase, what possible reason could there be for them to allow the French to have a free governmental version?
@Pope John Peeps II: Just so you know the facts, Google has no right to LIMIT the production and distribution of any digitized work. They just want the rights to the digital content THEY provide. So in this plan, anyone can produce and distribute their own. Google is going to advertise their ability to integrate with their services and search capabilities and provide their own distribution model. That's how they will recoup costs, NOT through hording information. This is just fear mongering to block Google, that's all.
@SunandiniSmelt: Just so you know the facts, Google has no right to LIMIT the production and distribution of any digitized work.
Just so you know the facts, YES, it MIGHT. The fact is that this service does not really yet exist, so legally lots of issues with rights are still up in the air. Read the words of Sergei Brin himself:
This agreement aims to make millions of out-of-print but in-copyright books available either for a fee or for free with ad support, with the majority of the revenue flowing back to the rights holders, be they authors or publishers.
Fundamentally, this is a project for profit. Maybe not a lot of profit, but profit nonetheless.
Some have claimed that this agreement is a form of compulsory license because, as in most class action settlements, it applies to all members of the class who do not opt out by a certain date. The reality is that rights holders can at any time set pricing and access rights for their works or withdraw them from Google Books altogether.
It very much seems to be a form of ad-hoc licensing. Brin is telling us that it's not terribly restrictive, and he might be telling us the truth. But fundamentally the necessity is for people to withdraw their works from the archive if they want to set their own pricing and sell it themselves. That's a license. And what if you do? Would your book therefore be removed from the majestic munificence of the Google Books Super Fun Happy Knowledge Project? Any idiot would think: yes. Yes it would. What if you tried to print or publish your own version while the book is still hosted in the Google archive. Do you think they would let you? Not fuckin' likely.
Google's not out to make the world better. It's out to be a profitable company. Why would anyone be so foolish as to think otherwise?
@lurch_mojoff: The point is that NOBODY KNOWS. But there certainly is that possibility. The legal problems don't yet exist. Google SAYS that they won't prohibit anyone else from creating their own archives, but why would you trust that statement? Do you regularly assume that companies give shit away for free? Or are you just snuggling yourself between google's butt cheeks because they put a picture of your house online.
@Pope John Peeps II: You're missing the point. Google is just digitizing books by scanning pages and converting them into text. They maintain zero rights over the contents (for which the copyright is expired) or the original sources (they're private property), just the files that they created. It's completely up to France to man up and put the money into making their own copies as well; at no point does Google gain any ability to stop you from buying a ticket to Paris and doing it yourself.
The non-sensationalist reason for France to be concerned is that if Google has 99% of their books posted with high accuracy, nobody will ever care about the government's "official" versions anyway. However, there's no reason why Google would share their data, aside from being generous.
If Amazon can do this, it'll be the best thing to boost not only their ebook sales, but also their sales of the Kindle. I think most folks who might try downloading a book on their phone would quickly realize that epaper is a much better way of reading.
Ok this is seriously off topic but not sure where to ask.. was there not an article last night on Giz about Lego and Battle Tech? Did it get pulled? Or am I losing my mind?
@Reapman: Good news! You're not losing your mind, as far as we can tell anyways.
Yes the article in question slipped into the vast darkness of the interwebs and is no more. We should all observe a minute of silence for our MIA Lego Mech comrades..
12/09/09
Google: All ur Frenchbase are belong to us.
Sarkozy: Pardon??
12/09/09
What the french are up in arms about is that Google went directly to the National Library of France, and no one is precisely sure how (read: money) but for a while it looked like they were going to digitize their collection.
AND despite what Brin says, for a rights holder to have the right to withdraw a book from google books is great, EXCEPT when you regard the collection of a library as the national heritage of a whole country, then the idea of having them online for sale, or remunerating Google by ad revenue starts to seem really fucking horrible. Especially since Google is an avowedly American company, which would then be put in the position of actually storing the cultural heritage of FRANCE.
I'm not even French and just imagining it sort of starts to piss me off.
Imagine walking into your local natural history museum, seeing 1/35 of the only triceratops skeleton in existence (let's say), then seeing a sticker on a bone that says "triceratops brought to you by Google. Please visit our sponsor to see the rest".
Anyhow. The solution is for the French Government to just sack up and pony up the dough and resources. I'm pretty sure they're in the process of doing this themselves. If not, they should be. Google should NOT be in charge of this. Fiction, yes. Popular books, sure. Having a second copy of things... maybe. But be in charge of a National Library collection? Fuck you google. Fuck you.
12/09/09
As well, the article notes that the "digitisation of books would be one of the projects financed by a planned national loan".
So this is just political posturing on Sarkozy's part.
12/09/09
The BNF is as much to blame for this fiasco. They should have known better.
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
And Google certainly IS an american company. It's founded and run by Americans, it operates with an american mentality, and obviously isn't beholden to any sort of continental concerns, or need to particularly respect any other countries. Your idea of "multinational" is a little specious - and sounds informed by science fiction.
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
12/09/09
Just so you know the facts, YES, it MIGHT. The fact is that this service does not really yet exist, so legally lots of issues with rights are still up in the air. Read the words of Sergei Brin himself:
This agreement aims to make millions of out-of-print but in-copyright books available either for a fee or for free with ad support, with the majority of the revenue flowing back to the rights holders, be they authors or publishers.
Fundamentally, this is a project for profit. Maybe not a lot of profit, but profit nonetheless.
Some have claimed that this agreement is a form of compulsory license because, as in most class action settlements, it applies to all members of the class who do not opt out by a certain date. The reality is that rights holders can at any time set pricing and access rights for their works or withdraw them from Google Books altogether.
It very much seems to be a form of ad-hoc licensing. Brin is telling us that it's not terribly restrictive, and he might be telling us the truth. But fundamentally the necessity is for people to withdraw their works from the archive if they want to set their own pricing and sell it themselves. That's a license. And what if you do? Would your book therefore be removed from the majestic munificence of the Google Books Super Fun Happy Knowledge Project? Any idiot would think: yes. Yes it would. What if you tried to print or publish your own version while the book is still hosted in the Google archive. Do you think they would let you? Not fuckin' likely.
Google's not out to make the world better. It's out to be a profitable company. Why would anyone be so foolish as to think otherwise?
12/09/09
12/09/09
The non-sensationalist reason for France to be concerned is that if Google has 99% of their books posted with high accuracy, nobody will ever care about the government's "official" versions anyway. However, there's no reason why Google would share their data, aside from being generous.
12/09/09
02/06/09
02/06/09
02/06/09
Yes the article in question slipped into the vast darkness of the interwebs and is no more. We should all observe a minute of silence for our MIA Lego Mech comrades..
12/09/08
12/09/08
12/09/08
12/09/08
Unless they've already done that, in which case... links???
12/09/08