i'm running (6) 7200rpm drives in my FreeNAS box. i guess i could have gone with 5400rpm, but i already had all the hardware so i didn't really buy new components when i put the unit together.
@waclark57 i think you missed the point. the post clearly says, "The main bottleneck in any NAS is the RAID engine. Since many NAS units don't include a dedicated controller, oftentimes the speed of the drive just doesn't matter. If you're using a blazing-fast hardware RAID card in your own custom built setup, then drive speed might make a difference. But for most consumer units, the controller is the bottleneck."
with that in mind, drive speed obviously isn't an issue in consumer based NAS systems. sure if you have maddd money to spend on high end hardware, and you have a beefy raid controller, 10k or 15k drives will make a difference. #diy
I read this article yesterday and there are a few points that need to be noted. First they used older 7200 RPM drives and current generation 5400 RPM drives. It would have been more meaningful if both sets of drives were current generation.
The other note is that if you are setting up RAID 1 the 7200 RPM drives may actually be faster. This is because in the article they rationalize that it is the lack of a hardware RAID controller that causes the bottle neck because the CPU is doing all the XOR calculations. However in RAID 1 no XOR's are calculated because the drives contents are identical.
Put half in RAID 0 and half as backup....(I forget which RAID number that makes it) and hook it up via Fibre channel to your Xserve that you're logged into via open directory (and that your home folder is hosted on) via gigabit ethernet.
What would LHer's recommend in terms of the best reliability 1TB drives for a NAS? Is that size in the sweet spot at this point? Am I going to significantly decrease reliability using 2TB drives? #diy
@AmphetamineCrown: The Western Digital Caviar Black drives are by far the most reliable. [www.newegg.com]
In fact, I just ordered two of these yesterday!
Judging from current trends, virtually all of the 2TB drives currently out have pretty bad reliability track records. I had considered them, too, but I don't want to waste money on them.
AmphetamineCrown promoted this comment
Edited by David Frederick Becker at 11/07/09 1:15 PM
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@AmphetamineCrown: If you're primary goal is the reliability of an individual drive and you're willing to pay the premium an "enterprise" drive like the Barracuda ES.2 or something from the newer Constellation line is going to give you the best reliability, especially if you plan on running 24/7.
If cost is more of a factor, you might consider 1.5TB drives. Seagate (Barracuda LP), WD (Caviar Green), and Samsung (Eco Green F2) all have low-spindle-speed 1.5TB drives. Put them in a RAID 5 or RAID 6 configuration for reliability, utilize the 3-year warranty if needed, and you'll be fine.
I personally just put together a NAS with 6 1.5 TB Barracuda LPs in a RAID 6 running the Openfiler NAS software and its been running like a champ. 70MB/s over gigabit ethernet without jumbo frames enabled. #diy
@brisketboy: @David Frederick Becker: I've actually been using the Barracuda ES.2s in my 6 drive ReadyNAS. It is about a year old, and I replaced one a couple months ago when the monitoring software started detecting errors. Now I'm starting to see errors on two other drives. As easy as they are to replace, I'm not really liking the concept of running through 3 drives a year.
Maybe I'll try the Caviar black drives and see how they do. Seems like I'm going to develop quite the history with replacing drives. #diy
I know there'll be lots of senseless bashing on the comments, so I'm just here to say that in Brazil, of all the brands I tested, Dell had the BEST costumer support ever.
With basic plans I got domiciliar repair 3 times during a couple of years for my Dell XPS 1330.
Some will argue that the laptop is crap, but all three times the problem was on the faulty nVidia 8400M chipset that overheated and burned. Other than that it's also the best laptop I ever dealt with.
Cases like these really makes a company look very bad, but it's no way representative to the majority of cases.
I also decided to get the laptop from them because I only heard of good cases in Brazil regarding their costumer support.
No questions asked, they make some simple tests, and in my case made a full motherboard replacement and one LCD screen.
And opposite to most other brands, the people who work for the tech support actually knew a lot about their products. So if I made questions about battery life, optional bluetooth chip and stuff like that they actually knew the answer... #laptops
Somewhere, a guy who sent in a hard drive to get repaired is very pleased to receive a whole new laptop. He is not furiously calling Dell Technical Support back. #laptops
@doofusgumby: I would have to say... yep. I don't know, I don't have control of the banhammer, but seriously, talking like a /b/tard anywhere other then /b/ is just asking for trouble. #laptops
Having read this story and the comments, there is nothing here to dissuade me from buying a Dell. A single one sided complaint about service followed by a number of unsubstantiated slams against a major company don't convince me of anything. Pick a company and you could make up this same kind of "story" about it. #laptops
@PaddyDugan: Actually, I've had far worse experience with HP than Dell when it comes to support. I wouldn't rate either top-notch, but I hold nothing against Dell Tech Support either.
However I to have done the Dell Two-Step when it comes to getting a laptop they manufactured repaired.
Inluding: New hard drives, keyboards, mice, motherboards, power supplies, and even whole laptops.
It used to be (early 2000's) that the mice would start drifting randomly up and to the right after a while. And, they never managed to fix it short of replacing the whole machine. #laptops
@PaddyDugan: I think it has more to do with them having been much better in the past. They really only suck now in comparison to how awesome they used to be in the "Dude! You're getting a Dell!" days.
(disclosure: I've never owned a Dell and the only ones I've used have been at work checking work e-mail so I've not had a good or bad experience with them. This entire comment is also conjecture and should not be taken as fact or even opinion as my mind might have changed after posting. That being said it is entirely accurate to the best of my knowledge up to the moment that I hit share) #laptops
Heh, I have an application that allows me to control multiple putty screens at once. Whatever it is using to navigate between screens to relay commands brings out very odd behavior in the Dell Laptop I'm using.
CD's eject. Screens dim. With the right command I'll put the entire damn laptop to sleep... #laptops
This has been happening for 2 months now.. I've had 3 on site tech visits, 2 replacement laptops, and now I need to send out my laptop to a depot to get fixed - saying that this would be the surest way to finally get it fixed.. ridiculous.. and they dont even offer some sort of warranty extension or sorry-package to the customer who has been f*cked with for over 2 months now..
I had passing thoughts of switching to Macs after this.. altho i prolly wont.. there DEF wont be another Dell in my future.. #laptops
@dapoktan: Go to consumerist.com and search Executive Email Carpet Bomb. It's a sternly (but intelligently) worded letter to higher ups in a company that should help you resolve your problems.
I've used them many times during different fiascos and when used properly, they work like a charm. #laptops
This is normal. Complete Care returns your drive incase you need data.
The laptop is likely shipping from another depot. Patience. Dell just changed all their support over to India.
Enjoy. #laptops
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@HowieFelterbush: I could understand how you feel about this.
Personally, in recent years, I have never really been impressed with Dell (and it's luxury brands, XPS and Alienware). I have friends that bought their products and are constantly left unsatisfied and miffed about their products and the encounters they've had with "customer support".
That's not even counting the umpteenth amounts of clunky hardware, the drivers being faulty, and an overall dull and slow experience.
I imagine that Dell Computers are practically the "Jacob's Ladder" of computers.
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was unstarred
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Don't get me wrong, if you are happy with your Dell device, then that's excellent. But from life's experience (and having to deal with some of my friend's woes with Dell by lending them my loaners), I've shared in enough Dell headaches for a lifetime. #laptops
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was unstarred
Dell lost my wife's entire laptop. I pulled the drive and battery prior to shipping. After two weeks of escalating the issue with their support folks, I was finally able to get a new-refurbished inspiron 1545 out of them. Equal replacement for a 4 year old XPS M140? Maybe.
When Dell couldn't fix my E1505 after it crapped out with just over a month left on its warranty, Dell replaced it with a completely loaded Studio 15.
Dell replaces things with an equal model, if it's available. If not, things get replaced with the newer version of the same class of computer with the same upgrades as you had before. If they're replacing something with a screen upgrade, you'll get something with a screen upgrade. An upgraded hard drive nets you a hard drive upgrade. I can't say for sure, but there's probably quite a bit of leeway for their replacements based on the type of customer you are, or how much you were inconvenienced, or the interactions with service representatives, etc.
The important things to remember when dealing with customer support is to be patient, pleasant, and assertive. If you are a whiny pain-in-the-ass to deal with type of customer that wants something for nothing and makes their jobs harder, the likelihood of you getting exceptional treatment decreases dramatically. If people were to go in with a little bit of understanding, a pleasant demeanor, and a little bit of a backbone, they might not be as disappointed with the quality of service.
I'd venture a guess that most of the people that complain about horrible service are the ones that do nothing but things to impede the resolution of the problem. #laptops
11/07/09
@waclark57 i think you missed the point. the post clearly says, "The main bottleneck in any NAS is the RAID engine. Since many NAS units don't include a dedicated controller, oftentimes the speed of the drive just doesn't matter. If you're using a blazing-fast hardware RAID card in your own custom built setup, then drive speed might make a difference. But for most consumer units, the controller is the bottleneck."
with that in mind, drive speed obviously isn't an issue in consumer based NAS systems. sure if you have maddd money to spend on high end hardware, and you have a beefy raid controller, 10k or 15k drives will make a difference. #diy
11/07/09
Currently at 2TB + parity and expandable up to 6 drives before I have to upgrade the software license to the next tier (16 drives). #diy
11/09/09
11/07/09
The other note is that if you are setting up RAID 1 the 7200 RPM drives may actually be faster. This is because in the article they rationalize that it is the lack of a hardware RAID controller that causes the bottle neck because the CPU is doing all the XOR calculations. However in RAID 1 no XOR's are calculated because the drives contents are identical.
just my 2 cents #diy
11/07/09
[www.promise.com]
Put half in RAID 0 and half as backup....(I forget which RAID number that makes it) and hook it up via Fibre channel to your Xserve that you're logged into via open directory (and that your home folder is hosted on) via gigabit ethernet.
:D #diy
11/07/09
11/07/09
11/07/09
In fact, I just ordered two of these yesterday!
Judging from current trends, virtually all of the 2TB drives currently out have pretty bad reliability track records. I had considered them, too, but I don't want to waste money on them.
11/07/09
If cost is more of a factor, you might consider 1.5TB drives. Seagate (Barracuda LP), WD (Caviar Green), and Samsung (Eco Green F2) all have low-spindle-speed 1.5TB drives. Put them in a RAID 5 or RAID 6 configuration for reliability, utilize the 3-year warranty if needed, and you'll be fine.
I personally just put together a NAS with 6 1.5 TB Barracuda LPs in a RAID 6 running the Openfiler NAS software and its been running like a champ. 70MB/s over gigabit ethernet without jumbo frames enabled. #diy
11/07/09
Maybe I'll try the Caviar black drives and see how they do. Seems like I'm going to develop quite the history with replacing drives. #diy
11/02/09
With basic plans I got domiciliar repair 3 times during a couple of years for my Dell XPS 1330.
Some will argue that the laptop is crap, but all three times the problem was on the faulty nVidia 8400M chipset that overheated and burned. Other than that it's also the best laptop I ever dealt with.
Cases like these really makes a company look very bad, but it's no way representative to the majority of cases.
I also decided to get the laptop from them because I only heard of good cases in Brazil regarding their costumer support.
No questions asked, they make some simple tests, and in my case made a full motherboard replacement and one LCD screen.
And opposite to most other brands, the people who work for the tech support actually knew a lot about their products. So if I made questions about battery life, optional bluetooth chip and stuff like that they actually knew the answer... #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
@Shadowfury: So much of this. #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
Pathetic. #laptops
11/02/09
@Duckspwn: Loves Approving Reds: That word... I don't think it means what you think it means. #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
However I to have done the Dell Two-Step when it comes to getting a laptop they manufactured repaired.
Inluding: New hard drives, keyboards, mice, motherboards, power supplies, and even whole laptops.
It used to be (early 2000's) that the mice would start drifting randomly up and to the right after a while. And, they never managed to fix it short of replacing the whole machine. #laptops
11/02/09
(disclosure: I've never owned a Dell and the only ones I've used have been at work checking work e-mail so I've not had a good or bad experience with them. This entire comment is also conjecture and should not be taken as fact or even opinion as my mind might have changed after posting. That being said it is entirely accurate to the best of my knowledge up to the moment that I hit share) #laptops
11/02/09
CD's eject. Screens dim. With the right command I'll put the entire damn laptop to sleep... #laptops
11/02/09
also: love the second half of your name there. #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
I had passing thoughts of switching to Macs after this.. altho i prolly wont.. there DEF wont be another Dell in my future.. #laptops
11/02/09
I've used them many times during different fiascos and when used properly, they work like a charm. #laptops
11/02/09
The laptop is likely shipping from another depot. Patience. Dell just changed all their support over to India.
Enjoy. #laptops
11/02/09
The whole situation made me chuckle in class - Awesome. #laptops
11/02/09
If anything, it should have us readying our molotov cocktails and pitchforks. #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
at least we know why dell has "award winning" customer support... every dell customer gets executive customer support with each purchase.
anyways, if i were michael dell, i'd sell the brand for what little it's still worth and give the money back to the shareholders. #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
Personally, I am happy with ASUS and SAGER products, though I will admit that ASUS is slow in giving us our Windows 7 updates for our G51s and G71s.
YES ASUS, I AM LOOKING AT YOU AND MENTOR MEDIA, CORP. #laptops
11/02/09
skullcups
skullcaps
skullcups (to protect my man-jewels)
skullpoopbowl (for WOW runs)
skullbowlingball
and for the lonely, horny nights...
skul- (Transmission Intercepted by the FBI) #laptops
11/02/09
Personally, in recent years, I have never really been impressed with Dell (and it's luxury brands, XPS and Alienware). I have friends that bought their products and are constantly left unsatisfied and miffed about their products and the encounters they've had with "customer support".
That's not even counting the umpteenth amounts of clunky hardware, the drivers being faulty, and an overall dull and slow experience.
I imagine that Dell Computers are practically the "Jacob's Ladder" of computers.
No, wait... That would be Acer. #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
Don't get me wrong, if you are happy with your Dell device, then that's excellent. But from life's experience (and having to deal with some of my friend's woes with Dell by lending them my loaners), I've shared in enough Dell headaches for a lifetime. #laptops
11/02/09
11/02/09
When Dell couldn't fix my E1505 after it crapped out with just over a month left on its warranty, Dell replaced it with a completely loaded Studio 15.
Dell replaces things with an equal model, if it's available. If not, things get replaced with the newer version of the same class of computer with the same upgrades as you had before. If they're replacing something with a screen upgrade, you'll get something with a screen upgrade. An upgraded hard drive nets you a hard drive upgrade. I can't say for sure, but there's probably quite a bit of leeway for their replacements based on the type of customer you are, or how much you were inconvenienced, or the interactions with service representatives, etc.
The important things to remember when dealing with customer support is to be patient, pleasant, and assertive. If you are a whiny pain-in-the-ass to deal with type of customer that wants something for nothing and makes their jobs harder, the likelihood of you getting exceptional treatment decreases dramatically. If people were to go in with a little bit of understanding, a pleasant demeanor, and a little bit of a backbone, they might not be as disappointed with the quality of service.
I'd venture a guess that most of the people that complain about horrible service are the ones that do nothing but things to impede the resolution of the problem. #laptops