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New York, 8:38 PM
Sun Nov 15
20 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Pope John Peeps II Pope John Peeps II
    09/17/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: Microsoft, Standards and Damned Standards
    The other week, we explained how Apple influences a ton of what goes on in tech by shaping industry-wide standards. This week, we're gonna look at Microsoft, and what's it's done with standards.

    haha. Omg. nice opening sentence.

    "The other week, we did this amazing article about how fucking amazing apple is. So since some of you complained that fucking amazing apple weren't the only computer company out there, we decided to do a follow up article on Microsoft, which is the biggest rotting turd on top of the decaying compost pile that is called the computer industry".
     Reply
    Pope John Peeps II was starred Pope John Peeps II was unstarred
    Image of Gonzie Gonzie
    09/17/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: Microsoft, Standards and Damned Standards
    how did you manage to miss .doc and .docx? especially with all the song and dance about the latter becoming an iso standard and all the corruption behind that?
     Reply
    Gonzie was starred Gonzie was unstarred
    Image of dragon:ONE dragon:ONE
    09/17/09

    @Gonzie: Agreed. Doc and DocX are two horrid standards, especially in an environment where all computer labs have Office 2007, but all teacher machines have Office 2003.

    ... and Giz, can you axe the alcohol ads on the main pages? I got kicked out of a lab today because of our zero-tolerance towards alcohol and other drugs.
     Reply
    spannu promoted this comment dragon:ONE was starred dragon:ONE was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    09/17/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: Microsoft, Standards and Damned Standards
    Ha! Just minutes after this came up in my feed reader, I get this little number from Ars: [arstechnica.com]

    Granted, there's still tons of debate about it. But for Microsoft's part, putting in their support of the video and audio tags for the HTML5 standard is at least a step in the right direction. I wouldn't expect a patch to come out for IE8 next week, but, according to them, whatever issues they have with the multimedia tags, they intend to work through it.

    All the better, I say.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of Ridley Ridley
    09/17/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: Microsoft, Standards and Damned Standards
    What is the question that this giz explains addresses?

    I feel like it should be "Dear Giz, can you give me a few reasons or examples why Microsoft is more closed and stupid in regards to standards than Apple?"
     Reply
    spannu promoted this comment Ridley was starred Ridley was unstarred
    Image of spannu spannu
    09/17/09

    @Optimus-Prime: This article isn't really about actual standards that Microsoft helped develop. WMA and IE are just initiatives with lackluster success, and there's a lot more to the computing world than movies and pictures.

    It may be less exciting to paint Microsoft as a good guy once in a while, but they are directly responsible for a lot thanks to their long partnerships with IBM and Intel: DOS, FAT, USB, DirectX, etc.
     Reply
    spannu was starred spannu was unstarred
    Image of ara ara
    09/17/09

    @spannu: There is big difference between "a standard" and "the most used thing". Microsoft is huge in computer business so naturally they have tons of the other, but they have never seemed to care about the standards. MS has historically been horrible at playing with others, though they have shown change in that attitude lately.
     Reply
    TheWerewolf - Causing headlines! promoted this comment ara was starred ara was unstarred
    Image of TheWerewolf - Sotto voce TheWerewolf - Sotto voce
    09/17/09

    @ara: There's also a big difference between a standard and what's actually useful and needed.

    A lot of what Microsoft has done over the years came from the fact that most standards bodies are far, far too slow to keep up with market demand - and that for the most part, there really isn't much of a penalty for not complying with standards if there's no interoperability issues.

    Microsoft doesn't care if you want to interop Word - that's not really their problem: it's the file format for their word processor - why on earth would they have a need to let other apps work with it? That's just helping the competition.

    The Web really was the first (and in some ways, is the ONLY) case where interop really becomes an issue. But while we're on it: how come no one dumps on Adobe for not opening Photoshop files? Or for having made Postscript and to a lesser degree PDF files licensed technology for so long?

    And how about Apple with Firewire (which IS a standard) and their now infamous 25c per device fee?

    It's easy to cherry pick but the fact remains that this is a common practice across all companies. Microsoft just happens to be the biggest and most visible one.
     Reply
    TheWerewolf - Sotto voce was starred TheWerewolf - Sotto voce was unstarred
    Image of Shamoononon: I shave my legs. Shamoononon: I shave my legs.
    09/17/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: Microsoft, Standards and Damned Standards
    How has Apple 'opened' up their tech?
     Reply
    Kaiser-Machead promoted this comment Shamoononon: I shave my legs. was starred Shamoononon: I shave my legs. was unstarred
    Image of Kaiser-Machead Kaiser-Machead
    09/17/09

    @Shamoononon: I shave my legs.: Two notable examples are Grand Central Dispatch and mini displayport. Apple released GCD to the open source community, and mini displayport is an open free standard, so no licensing fees involved.
     Reply
    Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    09/17/09

    @Kaiser-Machead: yeah -- you got, got.
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of Shamoononon: I shave my legs. Shamoononon: I shave my legs.
    09/17/09

    @Kaiser-Machead: So what. That's not going to do anybody much good. What, Microsoft is going to use it? How does that make anything a non propitiatory format?
     Reply
    Shamoononon: I shave my legs. was starred Shamoononon: I shave my legs. was unstarred
    Image of cabjf cabjf
    09/17/09

    @Kaiser-Machead: Don't forget WebKit for Safari. Or even the whole Unix core for Mac OS X for that matter. AAC is pretty open now that tracks from iTunes no longer contain DRM.
     Reply
    Kaiser-Machead promoted this comment cabjf was starred cabjf was unstarred
    Image of Hank Scorpio Hank Scorpio
    09/17/09

    @Shamoononon: I shave my legs.: It isn't so much about opening up their tech (which they do do), it's more about supporting industry standards, instead of trying to force their own, or break existing standards (or simply ignore them), which are things Microsoft is very guilty of. (Don't get me started on MS's implementation of TCP/IP in Active Directory networks, or even the bastardization of x.500 that Active Directory is in the first place.)

    It's funny how, even to this day, people accuse Apple of using proprietary technology and think MS is more "standard", when historically the exact opposite is true.
     Reply
    Hank Scorpio was starred Hank Scorpio was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    09/17/09

    @Shamoononon: Dude, what is up with all the folks in this thread announcing that they shave their legs?

    Shamoon? *suspicious look*.....Do you know anything about this?
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of Asherek Asherek
    09/17/09

    @cabjf: Wrong. Webkit started off as open source from KDE developers (Konqueror Browser's KHTML Library). Apple didn't open it up, they started with an open source kit and expanded upon that. Mac OS X was built on an UNIX core; they didn't open anything up. As for AAC, it's just less annoying to use now; the format isn't "open" or anything.
     Reply
    Kaiser-Machead promoted this comment Edited by Asherek at 09/17/09 2:59 PM Asherek was starred Asherek was unstarred
    Image of Kaiser-Machead Kaiser-Machead
    09/17/09

    @Shamoononon: I shave my legs.: Whether or not it achieves mass adoption is not so much the point than that Apple still opened the tech as an open standard for everyone to use. Mini displayport has been adopted by Dell, and will likely make its way to other brands.
     Reply
    Edited by Kaiser-Machead at 09/17/09 2:46 PM Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred
    Image of Shamoononon: I shave my legs. Shamoononon: I shave my legs.
    09/17/09

    @OCEntertainment: Naw, I think these folks are just weird.
     Reply
    Shamoononon: I shave my legs. was starred Shamoononon: I shave my legs. was unstarred
    Image of Kaiser-Machead Kaiser-Machead
    09/17/09

    @Asherek: Only Protected AAC was proprietary from the beginning.
     Reply
    Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred
    Image of Asherek Asherek
    09/17/09

    @Kaiser-Machead: You're right, but that still doesn't change the fact that Apple specifically didn't open or close anything then. It was an already used format standardized by ISO and IEC.
     Reply
    Asherek was starred Asherek was unstarred
    Image of InsaneGeek InsaneGeek
    09/17/09

    @Hank Scorpio:

    Historically the opposite is true... what planet are you from?

    All I've got to say is AppleTalk...

    As a unix person who dealt with LDAP way, way back when (10 years ago against Irix 6.2 machines) I've never really messed much with AD but I can say historically there's a reason. X.500 didn't support a lot of features (features especially needed compared to Novel) that were needed. MS was trying to push into Novell networks against their directory server, which also is a bastardization of X.500 but Novell was used pretty much everywhere in business and X.500 was used hardly anywhere. MS did the same thing and extended X500.

    Here's what Microsoft does, if a standard doesn't do all the stuff they want it to do, they make it close and extend it. Other people (often grumpy unix guys like myself) after a while finally get a new standard out that does what MS has extended but often in a different way that is more efficient/cleaner. Instead of switching to that new method, MS continues doing their own thing.

    Apple just does things to do them, doesn't even try to be close to an original standard and extend it they go do their own thing... which sometimes is pretty damn good (OSX) and sometimes is completely annoying (AppleTalk)
     Reply
    Hank Scorpio promoted this comment InsaneGeek was starred InsaneGeek was unstarred
    Image of Hank Scorpio Hank Scorpio
    09/17/09

    @InsaneGeek: Well, sure, bring up AppleTalk...

    But in all fairness, back then there wasn't really a network protocol standard. Sure, TCP/IP existed, but this was before in-house networks were connected to the internet. Everyone had their own protocol back then: Unix had TCP/IP, Novell had IPX, MS had Netbeui, and Apple had AppleTalk.
     Reply
    Hank Scorpio was starred Hank Scorpio was unstarred
    Image of TheWerewolf - Sotto voce TheWerewolf - Sotto voce
    09/17/09

    @Hank Scorpio: But that's kind of the point. Back when IE came out (and Netscape too), the HTML standard was horribly inadequate. Both browsers supported the base - but then added their own extensions. DIFFERENT extensions at that.

    Then IE became the dominant player and W3C/IETF decided to finally get off their butts and implement some of the extensions in the HTML standard - but did it differently than the dominant player.

    That left Microsoft in a weird position. Do they break compatibility with all the sites who used their extensions or do they ignore a standard that at the time, no one used?

    Fastforward to today and we have a lot of people who have no clue as to the history of these events who are yelling at MSFT do to it *their* way.
     Reply
    TheWerewolf - Sotto voce was starred TheWerewolf - Sotto voce was unstarred
    Image of InsaneGeek InsaneGeek
    09/18/09

    @Hank Scorpio:

    But combine appletalk + localtalk and you have an unholly alliance, where (at the time I was working with them) 10base ethernet was a common standard. If I remember right you also had to use some crazy specialized serial cable because you of course couldn't use a standard rs232 like everybody else for modems
     Reply
    InsaneGeek was starred InsaneGeek was unstarred
    Image of ericstoltz ericstoltz
    09/18/09

    @TheWerewolf - : The problem with IE is not the proprietary extensions. The problem is that IE6 can not render the most basic CSS and is often mystified by javascript. To say it was about proprietary extensions is like saying developers were upset about the care Microsoft lavished on a cupholder while its car had only three wheels. Developers don't care about the cupholder; just add the other wheel already. And Microsoft is still causing problems by continuing to distribute IE6 on netbooks. Oh yeah. Couple of weeks ago a friend showed me the netbook he had just purchased, running Windows XP and sure enough, there was IE6.
     Reply
    Falsoman promoted this comment ericstoltz was starred ericstoltz was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    09/17/09

    In reply to Giz Explains: Microsoft, Standards and Damned Standards
    "Oh, Bill. Not Sinatra. Not 'My Way'."
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of Cyborgmatt Cyborgmatt
    08/10/09

    In reply to Toshiba Bites the Blu-ray Bullet: Applies to BDA, Says Players, Laptops Coming Soon
    Blu-Ray: Consumer idiocy at its finest.
     Reply
    deanbmmv ([k]) promoted this comment Cyborgmatt was starred Cyborgmatt was unstarred
    Image of deanbmmv deanbmmv
    08/10/09

    @Cyborgmatt: Expand and Explain
     Reply
    deanbmmv was starred deanbmmv was unstarred
    Image of Kaiser-Machead Kaiser-Machead
    08/10/09

    @Cyborgmatt: Poppycock lad. It's a perfectly cromulent format.
     Reply
    Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred
    Image of NurseDave NurseDave
    07/19/09

    In reply to Toshiba Even More Officially Gives Up the War, Will Launch Blu-Ray Player
    This just in....This just in....

    Toshiba is a company that should try to make money.
     Reply
    NurseDave was starred NurseDave was unstarred
    Image of strider_mt2k strider_mt2k
    07/19/09

    In reply to Toshiba Even More Officially Gives Up the War, Will Launch Blu-Ray Player
    It was this crap that keeps me out of home HD media for now.

    Baby (in this case the industry) gets NOTHING.
     Reply
    Edited by strider_mt2k at 07/19/09 8:15 AM strider_mt2k was starred strider_mt2k was unstarred
    Image of FedericoDemonice FedericoDemonice
    07/18/09

    In reply to Toshiba Even More Officially Gives Up the War, Will Launch Blu-Ray Player
    I've got both, and HD DVD should have won.
     Reply
    Đipic promoted this comment FedericoDemonice was starred FedericoDemonice was unstarred
    Image of Đipic Đipic
    07/18/09

    @FedericoDemonice: Your reason being...?
     Reply
    Đipic was starred Đipic was unstarred
    Image of G-Ram G-Ram
    07/18/09

    @FedericoDemonice: Incorrect.
     Reply
    G-Ram was starred G-Ram was unstarred
    Image of Cyborgmatt Cyborgmatt
    07/18/09

    @Đipic: HD DVD came first, it was a finished product (blu-ray 2.0 fiasco), cheaper, region free, combo discs, cheaper licensing fees etc tbh.
     Reply
    Jason Chen promoted this comment Cyborgmatt was starred Cyborgmatt was unstarred
    Image of subsider34 subsider34
    07/18/09

    @FedericoDemonice: Agreed, HD-DVD was, from the start, a much better format. They included all the features of BD-Live upfront. Heck, they even had Combo-disks with HD-DVD on one side and regular DVD on the other side for reverse compatibility.
     Reply
    Jason Chen promoted this comment subsider34 was starred subsider34 was unstarred
    Image of InvaderPhlegm InvaderPhlegm
    07/19/09

    @FedericoDemonice: As an owner of both formats, I too agree that HD DVD was a far better choice right out of the gate. It was a complete product, filled to the brim with next-gen media functions that Sony quite honestly, never would have thought of until they saw them running on HD DVD.

    When I look at the constantly emerging blu-ray market, with every new hardware generation adding more and more HD DVD features, I almost feel sorry for the guys who bought blu-ray players for very expensive prices . . . only to watch them become obsolete as newer blu-ray players featuring the latest ideas "borrowed" from HD DVD hits the market.

    HD DVD launched at half the price of blu-ray with 10x the next-gen features, and HD audio/video quality, that was every bit blu-ray's equal. If that is not how you define a superior product which should have won over the hearts of every serious videophile and gadget guru with blood in his veins, then I have some premium, beach front property in Arizona I would love to sell to you.
     Reply
    InvaderPhlegm was starred InvaderPhlegm was unstarred
    Image of ceilingFANBOY ceilingFANBOY
    07/19/09

    @Cyborgmatt: Actually, blu-ray was first, it just had a slower start.
     Reply
    ceilingFANBOY was starred ceilingFANBOY was unstarred
    Image of FalconFour FalconFour
    07/18/09

    In reply to Toshiba Even More Officially Gives Up the War, Will Launch Blu-Ray Player
    Seriously. How far did they think they'd get with a logo that consisted of "HD" and a few "waves" attached to the old DVD logo? Cheap gimmicky crap at its finest (?).
     Reply
    Đipic promoted this comment FalconFour was starred FalconFour was unstarred
    Image of OMG! Ponies! OMG! Ponies!
    04/22/09

    In reply to Warner Offering Up Blu-rays in Exchange for HD-DVDs with Red2Blu Program
    Mailbox: a steel receptacle that was once used for sending messages over long distances and is currently used to exchange optical media for other optical media.
     Reply
    OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred
    Image of Kaiser-Machead Kaiser-Machead
    04/22/09

    In reply to Warner Offering Up Blu-rays in Exchange for HD-DVDs with Red2Blu Program
    It's too bad you can't do the uber cheapskate route and simply mail an undated neopost stamp for the shipment of the Blu Ray to avoid the $6.95 shipping charge :P
     Reply
    Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred
    Image of ɟɹnsǝɥʇɥdɹnɯ ɟɹnsǝɥʇɥdɹnɯ
    04/22/09

    In reply to Warner Offering Up Blu-rays in Exchange for HD-DVDs with Red2Blu Program
    This could be great if you can find one of the crazy closeout deals on HD-DVD's. I saw a place locally selling them for like 6 bucks each about a week ago, you could really clean up buying a bunch and sending them in for the Blu-Ray equivalent...
     Reply
    ɟɹnsǝɥʇɥdɹnɯ was starred ɟɹnsǝɥʇɥdɹnɯ was unstarred
    Image of Project_J187 Project_J187
    04/22/09

    @ɟɹnsǝɥʇɥdɹnɯ: Most Fry's stores still have an entire aisle of HD-DVD's, all priced under $20.
     Reply
    Project_J187 was starred Project_J187 was unstarred
    Image of DePaulBlueDemon DePaulBlueDemon
    12/31/08

    In reply to Blockbuster's $8 HD DVD Firesale Is On Now
    I would be willing to take quite a few off their hands if they sold it for around $3-4. $8 dollars is still too much.
     Reply
    DePaulBlueDemon was starred DePaulBlueDemon was unstarred
    Image of ripfire ripfire
    12/31/08

    @DePaulBlueDemon: Even $5 each for 3 or more would've been a good deal.


    How $8 bucks for a dead platform is considered a sale, I wouldn't know.

     Reply
    ripfire was starred ripfire was unstarred
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