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Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
11/09/09
11/09/09
Anyways I don't think that a petition would really do any more than general internet chatter is going to do. I think when you've already got Forbes asking the CEO why they're not releasing the HD2 with android they're already picking up on it. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
I know there's been HUGE interest in this and lots of speculation about the Dragon and recently the Passion, but it's all just rumors and no real evidence -- everyone's showing the same freaking image watermarked from "TheUnlockr.com" ... That phone isn't even as clean and stylish as the HD2. It looks like an early version of the Eris.
I also know the HTC CEO said they wouldn't do this to Forbes a few weeks ago, but maybe if there's some sort of huge campaign to shake the company and demand this product they'd listen to consumers.
I've been underwhelmed by Moto's Droid, but don't know if I want to hold out for more empty Dragon/Passion rumors.
11/09/09
That said I agree that the hardware isn't near as nice looking. I think thats just going to be one of those things though. HTC seems to have a definite style for their windows phones and definite style for their android phones. The windows phones do generally look sexier but I don't think any amount of letter writing would change that. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
11/09/09
John, buddy, you answer it in the very first paragraph but then proceed to ignore the voice in your head for the rest of your review.
For anyone wondering why Windows Mobile still exists and who's buying it, look to any of what are surely thousands of businesses. The story is the same all over the place: Small business starts up, they graduate from using their Yahoo email to putting an Exchange server in place, eventually realize they want mobile devices. There are no additional licensing costs to run ActiveSync and any chump whose ever cracked an MCSE prep book can support it. It's an order of magnitude simpler than administering a BES and it's free. Hard to argue with that.
Giz -- I love you guys but you need to recognize the difference between business and consumer-class devices. Yes, it seems a little weird that HTC would put WinMo on their highest-end device when the hardware clearly appeals more to the consumer crowd but don't pretend that there's not place in the world for Windows Mobile. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
Google has made huge in roads in the enterprise community. Its probably not where they want it but there are a sizable amount of business switching to google hosted accounts. All of the bonus of getting a 'yourname@yourbusiness.com' email and none of the work (no cracking open MCSE prep book) combine that with a few android devices and you're good to go. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
One of my biggest complaints about Android is that it doesn't have what I would consider a full smartphone suite of apps out of the box. Microsoft has spoiled the majority of the business world five key modules: Email, calendar, contacts, tasks, and notes. I personally can't live without full synchronization of all five of these things. On Android, the best you're going to do is add third-party apps for tasks and notes which are now managed by some other web site, not exactly ideal in an enterprise situation. And god forbid you need decent contact management or want to start sharing calendars and adding granular permissions.
Perhaps more important than any of these things is the management side. IT departments are increasingly pressured to clamp down on mobile security. Remote-wipe capabilities and the ability to filter web sites and block personal email accounts is a must-have. I constantly get shit at my company from users who are pissed because iPhones have Exchange support but we won't support them. It's not that it won't work, it's that we can't lock down what they do with them.
Windows Mobile will lose relevance when another smartphone OS offers the functionality plus the management tools and doesn't any kind of license fee (like Blackberry). #htctouchhd2review
11/10/09
There is a place for Windows Mobile still, but that place is shrinking - and as Apple improves the ActiveSync experience in the iPhone OS, and Android 2.0 devices begin to roll out (and even WebOS supports ActiveSync) - that place might get small enough that no major handset manufacturers care anymore.
Microsoft's epic fail in delivering WM7 in any reasonable time-frame boggles my mind. They put out Windows 7 - a great full-blown OS - but between WM6 and WM7 is 3 years?
Three years is a lifetime in the current smartphone/netphone market. MSFT has screwed the pooch. #htctouchhd2review
11/10/09
Problems I encountered w/ "exchange support" on 3 Droid phones: bare phones (no apps loaded yet) that only had the Exchange set up can't even open attachments in those received exchange messages. I can't set our corporate legal blurb in outgoing messages due to lack of signature support for Exchange. Ability to accept/deny meeting invitations sent via Exchange is flaky and for some reason non-existant to some.
This is documented in the various android forums by others having the same issues. Seems I can fix most of these w/ an app called Touchdown now, OR wait until Dec 11 or Jan for planned refreshes to address these issues.
Oh hey! That's the same problem/situation people report w/ WinMo! Basic/unpolished core functions that can be augmented/fixed by loading 3rd party software. Load an "incompatible (doesn't support 2.0) app" and you get "force close" messages where the UI crashes. Also seems some Android gurus say I should run a "task manager" just like in WinMo!
So my point here is for all you people saying WinMo sucks and Android is so "advanced", I'm seeing a lot of the same challenges in both platforms. #htctouchhd2review
11/12/09
The difference - to me - seems to be that Android is rapidly evolving, and as you said, there might be legitimate fixes to some of the complaints in the next few months. A year ago, there wasn't a single Android phone for sale on Earth. Android itself was pre-release, and 1.0 was effectively a beta. A year later, 2.0 is launching, and the progress is pretty significant. If a year from now, Android 3.0 has made similar progress, I think WinMo's goose might be cooked.
My first WM device (well, WinCE) was CE 2.11, on a Casio Cassiopeia E11. I've used it ever since - I owned the original iPaq, then a ViewSonic V37, then an iPaq 1910, then my first WM phone - the ill-destined Axia A108 (running CE 4.2), then a Dopod S300 running WM5, and now the Touch Diamond. It has always had stability issues, multi-tasking issues, and (lately) horribly-dated UI issues.
I'm not tolling the bell for WM yet, just saying - if the market share falls enough, major handset makers will drop it (like Samsung is dropping Symbian now), which would further hurt market-share, and so on. Maybe WM7 will be truly "game changing", but I don't believe it anymore. #htctouchhd2review
11/12/09
Will WinMo7 be compelling enough to switch back for those who jump ship to Android? #htctouchhd2review
11/13/09
11/09/09
Quote:
"It's not quite ready for stylus-free use, and the HD2's screen doesn't come with—or support—those forsaken almost-pens of yore. "
Is this true?
WinMo can't do without a stylus?
Even fingernails won't do?
If so, it's a dealbreaker. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
That said I'm sure that any of the bevy of iPhone stylus would work if its really a deal breaker. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
erm thanks? But I think you're not getting my question.
I read the review on 6.5.
It said that it'd be hard to use, not impossible, without a stylus. (who uses one anyway?)
My point being I like the HD2, and if there are some settings that I'd rarely need to change, but which I could at least still use my fingernail when I need to then, I'm fine. The horror scenario being radio buttons placed so close together that'd require pinpoint accuracy that only a stylus could provide. Cos that's the impression Giz is giving me about WinMo.
Regards to a capacitive screen, am wondering if the fingernail (keratin) is also a conductor? Cos what you're saying is that a stylus won't work cos it doesn't conduct, right?
Hope you now understand better what I'd like to find out (if you're trying to help, that is).
Thanks anyway.
PS. Is being earnest a sin on Giz? #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
You can't use a fingernail. The reason a fingernail worked is the same reason that a stylus worked. It pushes in on the resistive screen and makes the connection that the screen registered as input. Thats not there on a capacitive screen. Your fingernail doesn't "conduct" (at least as far as touch screens are concerned, don't try sticking your fingernail in a light socket) and won't register on the screen.
They really do make iPhone styluses (if that was the part that you thought was a joke). If it really comes down to being an issue its an option. 6.5 is supposed to be more touch friendly but as they mention (and you keyed in on) its not 100% there yet. There are menus and settings where they are pretty close together and a stylus would help. Its not going to be impossible (might take a couple tries) but it could be a hassle, especially if you have large fingers. Like I said though you could get a $2 pen that will work with the screen, throw it in a draw, and pull it out when you find yourself in one of those difficult menus so I wouldn't really think of it as a dealbreaker.
11/09/09
On the HD2 though, you'll need to use a finger and not a nail. From what I've seen, Sense UI covers almost everything and even the bits of WinMo that are left over have larger, finger friendly controls compared to WinMo 6.1.
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/10/09
man, that was an awesome answer, you addressed everything. Am thus enlightened but have unfortunately nothing to offer you in return but my gratitude and respect.
PS. guilty as charged, thought the "iPhone stylus" was cheeky... #htctouchhd2review
11/10/09
11/10/09
I still have yet to see a remote access option on either the iPhone or Android that I would prefer over the trifecta available on WinMo (RDP, pcAnywhere, VNC), and WinMo has had RDP for nearly a decade... #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
Uh sorry, but no. The X10 will only have 256mb of RAM instead of 448mb, and a 4.1" screen instead of 4.3". Does have a better (8mp) camera though.
[www.gsmarena.com]
I think a perfect combination would be HD2 + Android. Hero 2 perhaps? #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
11/09/09
HTC Hardware + Android = <3
iPhone = <3 - AT&T lol #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
The software isn't crappy at all. #htctouchhd2review
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
This would probably save MS millions on R&D on winmo 7 and make it a better OS then if they did it themselves. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
1. Kernel emulation
2. The same kernel
3. An expansion on the previous kernel #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
All that's done is to gloss over the software ("it's all HTC") without saying anything +ve or -ve about it, and the end with "It's still Windows Mobile."
SO FREAKING WHAT? If the fact that the OS is Windows Mobile presents a problem, would it be so hard to point out what that problem is?
Don't point to the 6.5 review, for two reasons. 1) That review was criticizing 6.5 for not being as much as it could/should be at this point, not that much of inspecting what's actually there on its own merit, but more importantly 2) Don't point to that review because you say HTC covers up everything!
This review had very little to say, starts out in biased tone, and ends with the assumption that "it's Windows Mobile" explains everything. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
But let me ask this one thing John, and I'll ask for something really hard here: if you completely forget HTC Touch HD2 has WinMo running under the UI how bad the software is compared to a similar Android phone or the iPhone?
Because seriously, trolling and fanboyism apart, for someone reading this post alone, there is absolutely no real information that tells us why we should consider the software on the cellphone bad.
Being able to replace all basic functions on a OS could be viewed as "trying to hide it", but it could also be seen as the OS being highly customizable.
Lots of portable devices and computers uses highly customized Linux versions, and that's usually not because the manufacturer is trying to hide something... it's only trying to give it a different look to offer the users a fresh or more adequate UI to fit the hardware.
Now, I'm guessing WinMo 6.5 is worse on benchmark, functions, bugs or whatever to justify that bias. Can't think of nothing else. And I'm really hoping there is a better reason for this review other than pure trolling. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
How much of an improvement would you say HTC's retelling of WinMo is over the standard version on other phones? #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
11/09/09
Frankly, I'm not all that convinced that Android is really ready to take over in all respects anyway. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
But I guess thats because Giz writers would rather tell you it sucks over and over rather than have an actual technical discussion of the feature sets of mobile OSs. FUD over FACTS is the M.O. when it comes to these fluffy phone "reviews".
I am starting to get the picture that Giz writers don't really understand the technical differences between the mobile OSs, so its easier to leave little things like "reasons" alone, and just regurgitate the same old FUD over and over. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
11/09/09
11/09/09
WinMo is likey the worst example of "user friendly" you could possibly list. Want proof of this? Hand a mobile user a WinMo phone and ask them to find something basic. Lets say they look to change the indicator alerts (ringtones, vibration patterns and what not). I garauntee you it will take them at least 10 time longer to find it on a WinMo phone compared to a Blackberry, iPhone, Palm Pre or even Android device.
@reciprocal: @jackburnt: @Incoherent: @smokee: All you have to do is search Windows Mobile articles on just about any tech website or even go pickup a mobile related magazine at B&N to understand. Just because you guys bought into some garbage doesn't mean that it all of a sudden isn't garbage. [gizmodo.com]
[www.businessinsider.com]
Hell, even Motorola who had basically vanished off the map has dropped support for WinMo. Do you truthfully think that the 4 or 5 of you on this blog make up the difference thats given WinMo the horrible image it has today? #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
In fact it sounds like everything went perfectly smoothly in the actual implementation but the fact that it ran Windows Mobile(which has 0 effect on the actual experience) in the background was used as a negative.
I don't care one way or the other if you don't like WinMo(I use Android myself) but at least give the reasons why it lowers the quality of the phone by stating problems experienced, areas where the UI gets killed, etc. As is, it was made to sound like the god phone that you(the author) hates for no reason whatsoever. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
11/09/09
That's why. If it has little to no effect on the actual user experience then it means absolutely nothing. I'm not asking him to say why he dislikes winmo, but how and where those facets he does dislike show themselves in this phone. If they don't, then the fact that it has winmo doesn't matter at all and it's back to sounding like it does now: This phone is amazing in every way. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
This is the first time Windows Mobile has been on hardware this advanced, and HTC has (from all accounts) done a bang-up job of making sure you don't see the underlying operating system, but it seems like the author is pissed that HTC isn't going to do an official Android port, and is taking it out on the device.
I mean, isn't it a net WIN (pardon the pun) when the good things you have to say about the Sense UI include "surprisingly usable", "works surprisingly well" and "impressive", while the only concrete negative (besides vitriol about WinMo in general) about this handset in particular is that the Sense UI is "only marginally effective" at hiding WinMo.
That's not a review of the software, that's just kinda lazy. At least compare the usability of the Sense UI on this hardware to something like Android 2.0 on the Droid. #htctouchhd2review
11/09/09
11/09/09
The third paragraph that was added in the "Falling Out of Lust with the HD2" section addressed the bulk of my problems with the review as originally written.
Now I know WHY the Sense UI doesn't particularly cut the mustard. #htctouchhd2review