Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was starred
Soldier_CLE says DON'T STOP AT THE STAR! REVOKE THE WHOLE DAMN THING, OWEN!!! was unstarred
"The backup for my report? Um, er... I sort of, um, drooled on it and, um. Well... ever licked a 9V battery? It was like that." #flashharmonicausbdrive
I was actually under the impression that no one had played a harmonica in at least 100 years until I started watching Les Stroud on Survivorman. #flashharmonicausbdrive
I get the impression that this will likely turn out to be like the Gibson vs. Epiphone debate so popular with guitars. I own both: A Gibson SG and an Epiphone SG. In blind sound tests, about 70% of the people who answered the poll on the forum said that the clip of the Epiphone was indeed the Gibson. Really, when you play it in person, I think it's more like a placebo effect than anything else.
i like it. however, this isn't a new idea. electric violins from companies like brewer, wood (the violinist for trans-siberian orchestra), or even yamaha have done modern designs on the violin.
this is advertised as a "semi-acoustic," which, for the life of me, i've never heard before. but just like guitars, violins can have their own unique sound. if this goes big, there will be people that love it and people that hate it. but it'll take the violin in a new direction. #music
Why focus so much on making it sleek? Why not focus on how the shape alters the way the sound resonates through the body of the thing? You can tell just from the shape, that the design focus would not have been directed at producing great sound. Too many of the angles are just too contrived. Why not start at the shape of a real violin, and empirically alter it piece by piece to figure out how to make a great sounding futuro-violin? #music
@dcartist: Actually, everything about the shape is directed at great sound.
The lack of tuning pegs to resonate and possibly create wolf tones, the smooth curves to reduce standing waves, the integrated bridge to make the string vibration translate directly to the body....
Everything. #music
@TheGZeus: Sorry I don't know enough about violin sound production to go too deep into this... (and if I'm wrong here, please tell me) but I would think that there is much more to the art of producing a beautiful violin sound than making the body aerodynamic, and using unibody construction with no protrusions of any kind. If it were that simple, we'd have been able to make great violins in carbon fiber or some form of resin already by now.
It's a dead giveaway that this was more about form than function when we hear that that "Hopfgartner took her inspiration from modern yachts, as well as "feminine curves and sundry corset outlines of the Baroque, Rococo, and Biedermeier ages".
If Stradivarius made the greatest violin sounds ever, how are you going to try to sell me on the idea that you take out the F-holes, remove all openings in the body, and you'll get a great violin sound... or a great sound at all?
It's "semi-acoustic", which I guess means that the vibration will be A-to-D'd into something else (then probably filtered and amplified) so that makes me think the shape might not even matter. Might as well be a Violin Hero body... and the amp will put out Strad sounds... #music
You're going off of conjecture and interpreting marketing language as gospel. I'm going off of educated guess. AKA theory.
The reason we haven't made fantastic carbon fiber violins is-
Oh, wait, we have.
People don't use them because of tradition and fashion.
Not too many jazz or rockabilly players use solid body guitars, but they'll stuff their hollow bodies with foam until they sound worse than a solid body would, just to reduce feedback and maintain the fashion/tradition.
Physics matter. Compare the body of a Violin family instrument to that of a Viola DaGamba.
The curved back, thicker top, more solid construction, lack of (gut) frets, soundposts... It's all designed to project more, and there's physics to explain why if one played a violin and viol with the same force the violin would be louder and project further more clearly.
The fact of the matter is the body would be at it's most efficient if it were shaped like a big M&M. It would sound different, certainly, but it would completely lack wolf tones, and be quite clear and powerful.
Neither of us _knows_ what the design process was, but I suggest to everyone, ignore marketing buzzwords. #music
@TheGZeus:
I'm willing to bet that I know more about general physics than you do, since you brought it up, but that's irrelevant, and I'm not sure why you're taking that personal tone here.
I am certain that you know know more about the practical design and physics of violins, frankly, only because I know nothing about the subject other than what I googled today.
However, it only takes common sense to see that other than the elimination of some protrusions that might produce extraneous resonant vibration, the design of the body shape is relatively arbitrary. That OVERALL shape does not like it arose empirically from experiment. It is NOT a shape that was designed in a sound lab (smoothing out corners, and eliminating knobs etc. could have been the product of sound lab testing or ideas, yes, but the overall shape, nope) A child could see that, intuitively (though he couldn't articulate why), based on the use of curves from different mathematical families, tacked together abruptly in different places, is obvious to the human eye.
And I'm not clear on how much you alter the shape and sound of an instrument and still call it a violin? If it's really just about having a smooth waveform, no wolf tones, and projecting far, can I just make "violin" by using computer generated sounds?
Is there an acoustic "signature" or "envelope" or whatever you call it, I don't pretend to know the technical term, that defines what a violin is supposed to sound like?
Finally, given it's a "semi-acoustic" instrument, why does the ability to project far matter? #music
@dcartist: *sigh* trial and error is a form of scientific testing.
How many chemistry breakthroughs get their start with an accidental mixture or unintentional effect?
Your capitalisation is random, and thus confusing.
Why are you taking an authoritative stance here? My point was that neither of us knows what the design plans were, nor what the internals look like, nor from what concept it came.
Just be cool, man. Saying neither of us know isn't an insult unless you somehow think you know everything about anything from two photographs of it.
If you knew more about physics than I did, you'd know what "envelope" means. I now call you a poser and a troll due to that BS. You are not on my radar as a human any more.
Jibber-jabber on, son. #music
I just disagree with you. Try to be objective and look back at this exchange. I think you'll conclude that outside of a single comment about physics, I've pretty much stuck to the topic and not been a troll. Nor have I tried to be "authoritative". I know what I know. I realize what I don't know.
I don't like the violin. For the reasons stated. It may be great to some people.
How are you ever going to hit high notes on this thing if you don't have Lurch's hands? I mean, the body starts so high up, it seems you could play maybe half an octave per string... #music
@TheGZeus: Hey man, I'm the first one to admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong. And I'm wrong. Playing guitar for a long time makes your view of "neck length" quite warped.
So I stand corrected.
PS. Let me then change my opening statement to this: "Damn, that looks like something Duran Duran would use in a music video. Does it have pink LED's and spout bubbles from a nozzle?" #music
@HeroOfTomorrow: HAHA yeah. It looks extra 1980s.
Guitars are actually really poor at translating string vibration into sound without alot of colouration. Look at the position of the bridge on the soundboard. It's usually very far from the middle, which would be optimal. The differing string thicknesses and tensions leads to many compromises, and the overall tension caused by the number of them forces builders to focus nearly as much on strength as sound.
It's kinda sad that there's so much resistance to changes in guitar design. Often bands that ostensibly want to break with tradition use 'vintage' or faux-'vintage' styled instruments*coughmarsvoltacough*.
Very few musicians are willing to move forward. #music
@TheGZeus: Very true! But I'm the wrong guy to talk to about "moving forward" in music: I'm one of a few professional musicians (I'm a drummer, by the way) that loves NOT sounding different, but sounding like what I think sounds cool. Which is the sound of pretty much every American rock/nu-metal band out there. Same thing with my taste in music. Everything I listen to sounds the same, but it sounds awesome. Call me a non-non conformist. Or a conformist. If you don't like word "jokes." #music
Go to Gavari's web site and the intro movie shows some models in the "Foto: Maurizio Maier | Friedrich J. Engl, 2007" out of a Siouxsie and the Banshees video.
How do you tune the strings? I don't think violin players will stand for the V-shaped back of the neck, it looks rather uncomfortable. #music
What is "Semiacoustic" supposed to mean? I love modern instrument design attempts, but when I look at that piece I wonder where the sound comes from... (no f-holes, no electric parts, will that body create enough resonance without?)
I also don't see how one is supposed to tune this thing. Obviously no tuning pegs or machine heads, and the head is too sleek for any of that. I supposed you could be relying totally on the fine tuners, but as someone who knows how to tune a violin, that seems rather unfortunate...
It is a really cool design, and I could be wrong, but it makes me think of all those electronic concepts we see that have no actual bearing on a potentially producible product, just some designer that when wild with aesthetics. #music
Not to say that Stradivarius's aren't very nice instruments (they are) but its been shown that they don't sound that much different to other violins of similar build (but different ages). Mostly it's just a perception thing, you expect it to sound better so you convince yourself it does. Blind tests have shown that when people don't know what's being played they find it very difficult to identify that Stradivarius sound. #music
@Odin: I think you'll find that with some sort of training there is a difference. Take any old schmo and that's one thing, but someone who actually listens to classical regularly or anyone who plays a classical instrument would certainly be able to tell the difference. To say "a study" with out any of the variables is always a tough thing to swallow for me. It's also not just the sound, but for example these instruments project much differently. A soloist who plays a Strat plays it because it's able to fill the entire concert hall with it's sound. #music
@loriensleafs:
Google it if you're more interested in the various studies on Strats. Mainly they boil down to blind testing though. Strats are more about their character than their sound. You hide away the character and your perception of the sound changes. #music
if this thing is made of carbon fiber, it'll have a character and timbre in a different way from wooden violins. carbon fiber instruments of all sorts, though they lack wood's ability to age and mature, so to speak, over time, have a significantly higher elastic modulus, and if i remember right, that adds a certain resonance to the sound of the instrument.
flea, the bassist of the red hot chili peppers, at some points in time, has used basses with carbon fiber necks, and yo yo ma used a carbon fiber cello (i think) at obama's innauguration, to give you an idea of its use in music. this violin won't be replacing wooden violins any time soon, but it will provide an interesting contrast to them when both are used together in an orchestra.
sterility is a matter of opinion. i think this violin is going to resonate in cool ways when it's played, although people in to more traditional sounding string instruments are going to find nothing but agony with it. #music
11/04/09
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Because, you know... Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, and about 1000 other musicians... #flashharmonicausbdrive
11/02/09
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11/02/09
this is advertised as a "semi-acoustic," which, for the life of me, i've never heard before. but just like guitars, violins can have their own unique sound. if this goes big, there will be people that love it and people that hate it. but it'll take the violin in a new direction. #music
11/02/09
11/02/09
The lack of tuning pegs to resonate and possibly create wolf tones, the smooth curves to reduce standing waves, the integrated bridge to make the string vibration translate directly to the body....
Everything. #music
11/02/09
It's a dead giveaway that this was more about form than function when we hear that that "Hopfgartner took her inspiration from modern yachts, as well as "feminine curves and sundry corset outlines of the Baroque, Rococo, and Biedermeier ages".
If Stradivarius made the greatest violin sounds ever, how are you going to try to sell me on the idea that you take out the F-holes, remove all openings in the body, and you'll get a great violin sound... or a great sound at all?
It's "semi-acoustic", which I guess means that the vibration will be A-to-D'd into something else (then probably filtered and amplified) so that makes me think the shape might not even matter. Might as well be a Violin Hero body... and the amp will put out Strad sounds... #music
11/02/09
Physics.
Look into it.
You're going off of conjecture and interpreting marketing language as gospel. I'm going off of educated guess. AKA theory.
The reason we haven't made fantastic carbon fiber violins is-
Oh, wait, we have.
People don't use them because of tradition and fashion.
Not too many jazz or rockabilly players use solid body guitars, but they'll stuff their hollow bodies with foam until they sound worse than a solid body would, just to reduce feedback and maintain the fashion/tradition.
Physics matter. Compare the body of a Violin family instrument to that of a Viola DaGamba.
The curved back, thicker top, more solid construction, lack of (gut) frets, soundposts... It's all designed to project more, and there's physics to explain why if one played a violin and viol with the same force the violin would be louder and project further more clearly.
The fact of the matter is the body would be at it's most efficient if it were shaped like a big M&M. It would sound different, certainly, but it would completely lack wolf tones, and be quite clear and powerful.
Neither of us _knows_ what the design process was, but I suggest to everyone, ignore marketing buzzwords. #music
11/09/09
I'm willing to bet that I know more about general physics than you do, since you brought it up, but that's irrelevant, and I'm not sure why you're taking that personal tone here.
I am certain that you know know more about the practical design and physics of violins, frankly, only because I know nothing about the subject other than what I googled today.
However, it only takes common sense to see that other than the elimination of some protrusions that might produce extraneous resonant vibration, the design of the body shape is relatively arbitrary. That OVERALL shape does not like it arose empirically from experiment. It is NOT a shape that was designed in a sound lab (smoothing out corners, and eliminating knobs etc. could have been the product of sound lab testing or ideas, yes, but the overall shape, nope) A child could see that, intuitively (though he couldn't articulate why), based on the use of curves from different mathematical families, tacked together abruptly in different places, is obvious to the human eye.
And I'm not clear on how much you alter the shape and sound of an instrument and still call it a violin? If it's really just about having a smooth waveform, no wolf tones, and projecting far, can I just make "violin" by using computer generated sounds?
Is there an acoustic "signature" or "envelope" or whatever you call it, I don't pretend to know the technical term, that defines what a violin is supposed to sound like?
Finally, given it's a "semi-acoustic" instrument, why does the ability to project far matter? #music
11/09/09
How many chemistry breakthroughs get their start with an accidental mixture or unintentional effect?
Your capitalisation is random, and thus confusing.
Why are you taking an authoritative stance here? My point was that neither of us knows what the design plans were, nor what the internals look like, nor from what concept it came.
Just be cool, man. Saying neither of us know isn't an insult unless you somehow think you know everything about anything from two photographs of it.
If you knew more about physics than I did, you'd know what "envelope" means. I now call you a poser and a troll due to that BS. You are not on my radar as a human any more.
Jibber-jabber on, son. #music
11/11/09
I had a long post, but I'd rather just drop it.
I just disagree with you. Try to be objective and look back at this exchange. I think you'll conclude that outside of a single comment about physics, I've pretty much stuck to the topic and not been a troll. Nor have I tried to be "authoritative". I know what I know. I realize what I don't know.
I don't like the violin. For the reasons stated. It may be great to some people.
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@HeroOfTomorrow: Seriously, dude.
It's actually _easier_ to reach the higher registers on this. #music
11/02/09
So I stand corrected.
PS. Let me then change my opening statement to this: "Damn, that looks like something Duran Duran would use in a music video. Does it have pink LED's and spout bubbles from a nozzle?" #music
11/02/09
Guitars are actually really poor at translating string vibration into sound without alot of colouration. Look at the position of the bridge on the soundboard. It's usually very far from the middle, which would be optimal. The differing string thicknesses and tensions leads to many compromises, and the overall tension caused by the number of them forces builders to focus nearly as much on strength as sound.
It's kinda sad that there's so much resistance to changes in guitar design. Often bands that ostensibly want to break with tradition use 'vintage' or faux-'vintage' styled instruments*coughmarsvoltacough*.
Very few musicians are willing to move forward. #music
11/02/09
11/02/09
How do you tune the strings? I don't think violin players will stand for the V-shaped back of the neck, it looks rather uncomfortable. #music
11/02/09
I also don't see how one is supposed to tune this thing. Obviously no tuning pegs or machine heads, and the head is too sleek for any of that. I supposed you could be relying totally on the fine tuners, but as someone who knows how to tune a violin, that seems rather unfortunate...
It is a really cool design, and I could be wrong, but it makes me think of all those electronic concepts we see that have no actual bearing on a potentially producible product, just some designer that when wild with aesthetics. #music
11/02/09
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Google it if you're more interested in the various studies on Strats. Mainly they boil down to blind testing though. Strats are more about their character than their sound. You hide away the character and your perception of the sound changes. #music
11/01/09
Gavari's been playing Melty Blood? #music
11/01/09
flea, the bassist of the red hot chili peppers, at some points in time, has used basses with carbon fiber necks, and yo yo ma used a carbon fiber cello (i think) at obama's innauguration, to give you an idea of its use in music. this violin won't be replacing wooden violins any time soon, but it will provide an interesting contrast to them when both are used together in an orchestra.
sterility is a matter of opinion. i think this violin is going to resonate in cool ways when it's played, although people in to more traditional sounding string instruments are going to find nothing but agony with it. #music