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Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
All Things D: Nathan Myhrvold, Founder of Intellectual Ventures

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Wilson Rothman
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
So, nobody's gonna take a stab at the reference in that top image that I worked so hard on?
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bosskev
04/09/09

@Wilson Rothman: Could it be...

Oh, and nice job on the pic!
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Hip Nihilist
04/09/09

@Wilson Rothman: You're growing on me, Rothman.
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Wilson Rothman
04/09/09

@bosskev: NOPE!
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Wilson Rothman
04/09/09

@Hip Nihilist: Glad to hear it—I hope that doesn't get in the way of your lack of beliefs.
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bosskev
04/09/09

@Wilson Rothman: Ah, my bad! HERE it is...

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bosskev
04/09/09

@bosskev:

* and through gritted teeth he said *

Let me try that again.

Uh...WHEN are we gonna get PREVIEWS back?
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blackrider23
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
That has some great potential! Now we will just have to wait 4 decades for car companies to actually manufacture them.

P.S. kudos for the photochop using City of Lost Children :)
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Wilson Rothman
04/09/09

@blackrider23: Nicely done.
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stopcrazypp
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
You can't much more efficient than a electric motor (80-90%), and since this uses electricity anyways I don't see why we don't just use electric motors instead.
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Daniel Grinton
04/09/09

@stopcrazypp: Because as efficient as they are, electric motors are kinda shit at providing decent amounts of torque. This supplements a piston based design so that it may even run WITHOUT fuel.
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ripfire
04/09/09

@Daniel Grinton: You do realize that high speed train engines run on electric motors, right?
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YankBoffin
04/10/09

@Daniel Grinton: wrong. Electric motors produces gobs of torque, starting at zero rpm. The problem with using them in cars is storing the electric energy for use. Pound for pound, gas and diesel fuels have an energy density that is nigh unequaled. Batteries are very heavy and expensive and just don't hold nearly as much energy as a few gallons of diesel.

Hence, hydrogen fuel cells are seen by many in the industry as a solution to make electric motors more applicable to powering cars.
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ripfire
04/10/09

@YankBoffin: Not only that, but it's portable. Otherwise you wouldn't get very far where there isn't a power plug to recharge.
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William_III_Earl_of_Dastardshire
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
Do I simple not get the idea, or is this really as stupid as it sounds. They want to use electromagnetism for the compression/exhaust steps in the otto engine cycle? If all cylinders fire in sync you won't end up with an engine that produces much more vibration? And if they don't fire in sync why not let the crankshaft take care of it, i.e. leave it as it is?

Many say that Otto engines are far from perfect due to that "slamming back", but this sounds seriously stupid with all the hybrid drivetrains being around that incorporate the perfectly efficient conventional electric engines.

However, I'm sure someone here knows a lot more about the mechanics of car engines than me, so maybe someone can come up with some arguments for why this is a reasonable idea after all. Guess Gates can afford to hire some competent engineers..
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bosskev
04/09/09

@William_III_Earl_of_Dastardshire: "...so maybe someone can come up with some arguments for why this is a reasonable idea after all."

It matters not a whit if this is a reasonable idea, as long as that guy wearing the brainiac colander in the photo is behind it. Instant venture capital.
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William_III_Earl_of_Dastardshire
04/09/09

@bosskev: Even without the support of the richest person in the world, if the idea has some merit, and fuel efficiency, which isn't the least important of a car's specs in the buyers' view, is improved, it would likely find a lot of capital. After all, there still are some car manufacturers that have some money.
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bosskev
04/09/09

@William_III_Earl_of_Dastardshire: "After all, there still are some car manufacturers that have some money."

Not any more. Tilt-A-Whirl junkies--they blew what money was left last weekend on a Coney Island bender.
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Gann
04/09/09

@William_III_Earl_of_Dastardshire: Hybrids are a joke. They add large amount of complexity to a car's system without addressing the real problem - dependence on fossil fuels. The genius behind this is that it allows the combustion process to act as a fuel cell. This is one important step towards a vehicle that can take power from more than one source.

As a side note, there's no reason this tech would only be restricted to auto use. If it could be scaled down enough, it could possibly be used for a laptop.
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Hello Mister Walrus
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
In this economy, how is he going to get venture capital funding for this idea? Oh wait...
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AmityCachinga
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
The second image is the most intriguing to me since the "piston" looks to be free floating inside the cylinder walls. With combustion chambers on both sides (and no connecting rod) the power is actually transmitted to the wheels through electicity. The electricity is generated from the piston passing through the coils of magnets (I can't remember the scientific name for that). Basically its a linear induction motor in reverse. I'm not sure this would be more efficient that mechanically sending the power to the wheels, but it would allow for the car to be entirely driven by electric motors (perhaps in the wheel hubs) but you could still run it on fuel?
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ripfire
04/09/09

@AmityCachinga: It's not efficient. You would have a gas electric generator running continously to power an electric motor for the wheels. Too much conversion, lots of energy lost especially on a stop&go situation.

Unless they could put in an "energy buffer" (ie ultracapacitor)a lot of energy could be saved while putting a lot of power on the drive even if it has a low power generator.
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bosskev
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine

"Theoretically, the piston could operate entirely without fuel, using magnetism on both ends to rapidly repel and attract."

Uhh...haven't we already kind of dispelled the notion of a perpetual motion machine?
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GitEmSteveDave_Isn'tFreshPerked
04/09/09

@bosskev: Yeah, I have a bunch of em'.

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Nick
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
i wonder the strength of those magnets and if any shielding will be necessary to avoid disruption with other electronic processes and thinga-ma-bobs.
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Pope John Peeps II
04/09/09

@Nick: magnets generally don't have an enormous range. The decrease in force happens extremely quickly as you back away from the magnet.
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GitEmSteveDave_Isn'tFreshPerked
04/09/09

In reply to Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine
A state of the art bus to transport children to school in an engine powered by magnets!

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Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine

All Things D: Nathan Myhrvold, Founder of Intellectual Ventures

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Gates, Myhrvold To Patent Crazy Electromagnetic Combustion Engine

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