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nutbastard
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
i dont think one can be legally compelled to do what is essentially police work. certainly not as a minor. hopefully the arresting officer is admonished for felony douchbaggary.
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jayhawk11 is not a fan of smallpox.
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
I swear to god, maybe 5 of the commenters on this story actually read what happened.

They arrested his VP....the guy who actually planned the event. Not Bieber himself.

Was it still wrong? Yes. But take time to RTFA and it might make a little more sense.
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CommentingpointlesslyisMeh
11/23/09

@jayhawk11 is a trap star, sort of.: So what, how can you arrest someone for not saying something to other people? Isn't that freedom of speech? What if he walked away (the VP) would he get arressted for leaving the scene of a crime? This is rediculous. He annouced that the show was off. Done deal, the police are supposed to handle riots not music entertainment executives. I don't care how much it would "help" for the kid to tweet a go home message.
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jayhawk11 is a trap star, sort of. promoted this comment

back_at_it
11/23/09

@jayhawk11 is a trap star, sort of.: yeah, that's annoying the bejeezus out of me too
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jayhawk11 is a trap star, sort of. promoted this comment back_at_it was starred back_at_it was unstarred

jayhawk11 is not a fan of smallpox.
11/23/09

@CommentingpointlesslyisMeh: And apparently you didn't read my comment.

"Was it still wrong? Yes."

Everybody shit their pants in the comments because they thought Bieber himself was arrested when he is just the performer. The VP didn't cooperate with police, but he did cancel the show. Johnny Law didn't think that was enough, so they put him in cuffs on the aforementioned charges. That was out of line, which is what I stated in my first comment.
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CommentingpointlesslyisMeh
11/24/09

@jayhawk11 is a trap star, sort of.: Yes. i didn't really mean to make it sound like I was opposing you. Sorry. It was still wrong...but people not paying attention though the kid was arrested...AND the article title DIDN't help.

#tips
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Jrsy Devil's Advocate®
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
It must have been Paul Blart's day off. He would have known how to handle that crowd...
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madog
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
Yeah, you can go ahead an file this under "stupid". Try not to rationalize this, people It's a waste of energy.

(not because of you guys reporting this, but because of the situation itself)
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Edited by madog at 11/23/09 12:59 PM madog was starred madog was unstarred

FooSchnickens - BPH Free
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
Police: You there, boy, do our job!

Boy: Ummm, no?

Police: Arrest them!
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Kaiser-Machead
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
12 year old Samantha Piper, looked down at her iPhone to see that Bieber just left a tweet pleading with the crowd to calm down. Suddenly, her urge to maul every other swooning female around her was gone, and a sense of calm came over her. Beber had reached her, and she felt sane again. In that intant she knew peace and sensibility again, for that brief moment before being trampled to death by a mob temporarily oblivious to their mobile phones.
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Edited by Kaiser-Machead at 11/23/09 12:28 PM Kaiser-Machead was starred Kaiser-Machead was unstarred

Mikestan
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
Since when have NY police tried to stop a crowd by peaceful measures. Oh wait, this happened in Long Island so this wasn't the NYPD.

Had it been the NYPD, the riot cops would have broken heads left and right.
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valkilmerisawful
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
This is the first cool thing I've heard Justin Bieber do. Now he's not just a little punk b*tch pop singer, he's that badass that just gave the finger to the man and said "Tweet this mother trucker!". Good, I'm glad he didn't help. Anyone that get destroyed by a stampeding crowd trying to get closer to child singer doesn't really constitute a loss, anyway. Natural Selection says: "Sorry, you just weren't strong enough."
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@valkilmerisawful: There were probably plenty of people legitimately shopping and or eating at the food court that weren't there to see him that could have been harmed.
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Pressure
11/23/09

@valkilmerisawful: Well, explain why there were no fatalities then. Tsk, there is just no justice in regards to natural selection in the modern society. We don't even die from rare and dangerous diseases but by the hands of other human beings instead.
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valkilmerisawful promoted this comment Pressure was starred Pressure was unstarred

valkilmerisawful
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: No, I don't believe that. Those people weren't at the JB event, and therefore are far too intelligent to be trampled by the oncoming battalion of lunatics. Clearly they are genetically superior and would have done fancy back handsprings, chucked ninja throwing stars, wielded heavy artillery, and matrix-dodged all rage-consumed JB fan. #sarcasm
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Edited by valkilmerisawful at 11/23/09 12:36 PM valkilmerisawful was starred valkilmerisawful was unstarred

valkilmerisawful
11/23/09

@Pressure: I was thinking out loud, as in, the police don't really need to go out of their way to stop the inevitable. And I agree with you, if what you mean by "no justice.." is that NS doesn't necessarily drive procreation in modern society. Once can simply 'cover up' harmful genetic weaknesses and pass them on. Which is why some day I'll tell my kids to eat dirt; to strengthen their immune systems. It's actually frightening, that you can imagine the majority of the educated population using prophylactics and birth control and waiting to have children while the sludge of society multiplies. The world is getting dumber, as Susan Jacoby discusses in her book ‘The Age of American Unreason’.

As for the Justin B. 'tween fanaticals, they got away this time. Let's to hope that somebody hacks the Boeing space lasers and syncs it with JB's tweets.

#naturalselection
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Pressure
11/23/09

@valkilmerisawful: Exactly! I haven't actually read the book by Susan Jacoby but it would seem the movie "Idiocracy" is based on this very concept. That the educated population awaits better and more secure times to procreate while their diametrically "opposites" are getting at it like rabbits, thereby diluting the intelligence of society to a point of no return.
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valkilmerisawful
11/23/09

@Pressure: Sir, we are friends. Heart-CLICK for that response and your outstanding ideals. Mother Nature awards you +600 offspring to help balance the force. I've got your back.
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Red_Flag
11/23/09

@valkilmerisawful:
@Pressure:

Someone had to.
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Canoehead
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
I am pretty rusty on this stuff, but isn't there a huge constitutional issue if the police attempt to COMPEL speech? I mean, this is the state requiring you to make a certain statement in your own name, against your wishes, and punishing you for a failure to comply. This is not a case of incitement (at least per this summary) - rather the police asked for his assistance in dispersing the crowd (which is fine) but when he declined to cooperate, they used the coercive power of the state against him (not so cool). Unless I am missing something, he not only has a pretty powerful defense, but also a potential civil rights lawsuit.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@Canoehead: His presence was the cause of the disturbance. While he's not responsible for the actions of those who came to see him directly, he has a responsibility socially to their safety.

The police asked him to help disperse the crowd because they felt it was dangerous, and he failed to do so. By placing him under arrest, they could then remove him themselves and make the safety issue go away.

Pretty much, they gave him the option of helping or declining to help. In this case, his presence was the root cause of the problem.

Typically you need city permits to hold such events, and those permits require safety conditions be met. It sounds like they were not.
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Edited by Lite: hates Illinois Nazis at 11/23/09 12:14 PM

junyo
11/23/09

@Canoehead: +1. It's like arresting you for not not helping them tackle a shoplifter. The state has a ton of tools at it's disposal for breaking up riots, some tennie bopper pop star shouldn't be the goto guy.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis promoted this comment junyo was starred junyo was unstarred

Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@junyo: Actually it's not like that at all. It's like them arresting you because your presence makes people shoplift.

By breaking it up before there was a riot they saved a lot of people from potential injuries and death, as well as protected shop owners and the mall itself from damage and loss.
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carriontron
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: that's fine if they want to remove him for the safety of others, but they arrested him!

it's like you posting a comment and we all get angry at you, so they cancel your internet and arrest you because people were using foul language in the reply field...you were the root cause, and there was nothing they could do to stop the 3000 people replying,....kinda a weak argument.

but, if the argument does hold up, we should organize giant stampedes, maybe against Palin, the FED chairman, paris hilton, and they would get arrested
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis promoted this comment carriontron was starred carriontron was unstarred

clownmagic
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: Read the article carefully, they did not arrest HIM, but his VP. If you follow the link, you see that Bieber Tweeted or Twittered, or whatever it is called saying they would not let him in the mall. It was the VP who was arrested for not doing what he was told.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis approved this comment clownmagic was starred clownmagic was unstarred

TheRxBandit
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: So you're telling me that I should have a record of being arrested simply because people LIKE me? That's absolutely insane.

I, nor Justin, have any control over what people do around me. They are their own person, and thus, they should receive the consequences of acting out in public, not me.

Teen girls are completely at fault here, and it isn't Justin's fault that they like him.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis approved this comment TheRxBandit was starred TheRxBandit was unstarred

Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@carriontron: OK, let's set the story straight. They didn't arrest HIM. They arrested his manager. The only person arrested was a guy from the label representing him.

Now, would you call this a safe environment?

After they arrested the label guy, he complied and sent out the tweet.
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Edited by Lite: hates Illinois Nazis at 11/23/09 12:55 PM

Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@TheRxBandit: He isn't responsible for tweens and twihards liking him. However he, Justice (store), and the mall have legal obligations to provide a safe environment for his fans at an event.

Including necessary crowd control, planning with police, arrangement of adequate safety services, and looking at that video. Had there been a fire, stampede, or riot. A lot of people would have been hurt if not killed.
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aupton
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: Sounds like extortion... "DO THIS OR ELSE WE'LL ARREST YOU"
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis promoted this comment aupton was starred aupton was unstarred

Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@aupton: "Disperse this unruly and potentially dangerous mob of teens creating a public safety issue, or we'll arrest you..." is extortion eh?

In many states if you refuse to sign that you have received your copy of the speeding ticket (even though it is not an admission of guilt) they take you directly to jail.

If you refuse to take a breathalyzer test they revoke your license on the spot, and you go directly to jail.

How is this situation any different other than the police had already sent 5 people to the hospital for minor injuries and the event hadn't started yet? Oh right, it's extortion. Because, they want you to do something for the safety of the people who came here to see you.
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TheRxBandit
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: I do understand where you're coming from, and now that the story is more clear, I understand WHY they did it. However, I'm not sure where to lay the blame: Justin's manager for not making prior arrangements for a crowd of this proportion, or the mall in general.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis promoted this comment TheRxBandit was starred TheRxBandit was unstarred

fsusmithc2
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: Amongst the most annoying sounds known to man is that of a group of teenage girls screaming. Where are the parents to try and help control this? I bet if I was there and ended up pushing some kids out of my way trying to leave I'd have some parents in my face.

The mall get's on the megaphone and says he's not coming and you all yell boo and just continue to stand around? They called it off because you're all being insane, don't you get it? Sure, maybe the label and the mall didn't realize just how many girls would show up but still, if the guy is as popular as this crowd would seem to indicate, they probably could have roped off some areas, formed a line, etc., etc. Once a mob gets going, it doesn't matter if it's teenage girls or any other group, things can get ugly quick. When uncivilized people get in a group, they all turn real dumb, real fast and all of a sudden rules don't matter anymore. It sickens me to see crap like this.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis promoted this comment fsusmithc2 was starred fsusmithc2 was unstarred

Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@TheRxBandit: Probably a bit of blame to be spread around all over. I'm sure the police could have handled things better but they were honestly concerned.

Better planning on the Mall, his management, and the promoting store's behalf...

Agree or not, it wasn't like they were trying to harass people. They were trying to prevent a tragedy.
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Canoehead
11/23/09

@junyo: That makes zero sense. As far as I can tell, he has not broken the law. And even if he had, there is no duty to mitigate. I mean, if he broke the law and the law allows arrest for that breach, then he could be arrested, but even then he cannot be compelled to cooperate with the police. Sure, he might choose to cooperate in order to cut a deal with the cops or prosecutors -and it might be wise to do so - but the police cannot compel his speech. Think about it - being forced to say something you don't want to or agree with is in many ways worse than being muzzled. It is an appropriation of you and your image. While they are at it, why don't they just compel him to tell his fans to avoid drugs and eat their vegetables too? That would also have social utility and might prevent needless loss of life (from scurvy).

Lest anyone think I am ACLU-type, please be assured that I am not - in fact I have a Grumpy Right-Wing White Male card in my wallet. This sh*t is important, and should transcend political parties - nobody wants to be called in front of the House Committee on un[American][Obamalike] activities and forced to publicly renounce their views on pain of incarceration.
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Edited by Canoehead at 11/23/09 2:04 PM Canoehead was starred Canoehead was unstarred

Canoehead
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: Um, because you are signing to acknowledge that you have received the ticket (which is obviously and objectively true) - you are not signing to say that you agree with it. A breathalyzer is a chemical test - again, you are not compelled to confess that you were drinking. There is a reason that speech is given such a prominent and protected position in the constitution - if you look for it, it's located just above my favorite Amendment. Compelling speech is incredibly insidious, because once you have said something, you cannot later contradict yourself without losing your credibility.
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Edited by Canoehead at 11/23/09 2:10 PM Canoehead was starred Canoehead was unstarred

Canoehead
11/23/09

@carriontron: Not to pick nits, but - Hey look nits! - but if the police take you anywhere against your will, you are technically under arrest.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@Canoehead: Actually he did have a duty as he scheduled the event. It was his event, therefore he is responsible.

Ask the Rolling Stones what happens when you fail to adequately provide appropriate security and crowd control when throwing a free concert...
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@Canoehead: They didn't compel him to do anything. They asked his management to have him do it, and when his management resisted they arrested his management, canceled the event, and did what they felt was necessary to protect the very children there to see him.

As for 'accepting risks' clause on tickets. The courts have already ruled that this is "within reason" and that it does not preclude the performer from liability. In this case, 5 people were injured. How many more needed to be until his management changed their minds?
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Canoehead
11/23/09

@Lite: hates Illinois Nazis: If say X or I arrest you (or your friend, manager, whatever)" is not compulsion, I don't know what is.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@Canoehead: Where was it stated that the police told the guy, "Say this or I arrest you?"
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Voyou_Charmant
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
If the police can't rely on teenage pop-stars to do police work such as --- managing a crowed of teenagers (probably mostly girls?), who can they rely on?

This is one of the more insane stories I have ever read.

I know when I'm engaging in angry mob activities, I typically rely on updates from my social networks.

Like just the other day, me and some fellow activists were actively smashing the state when I received a tweet: "OMG! wrong Starbucks teh manager @ that 1 is kewl he alwaz hooks me ^, it's the 1 across the street lol #revolution #NewMoon"

So, we stopped with the bricks, headed to the crosswalk, and stuck it to the man!
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Edited by Voyou_Charmant at 11/23/09 12:05 PM Voyou_Charmant was starred Voyou_Charmant was unstarred

Ninety-9
11/23/09

@Voyou_Charmant: "If the police can't rely on teenage pop-stars to do police work such as --- managing a crowed of teenagers (probably mostly girls?), who can they rely on?"

TOO EASY!!!
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Voyou_Charmant approved this comment Ninety-9 was starred Ninety-9 was unstarred

Voyou_Charmant
11/23/09

@Ninety-9: You win the internets for the next few hours. Congrats, sir and/or ma'am.

#tips
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Rogue Justice
11/23/09

@Voyou_Charmant: Actually, having read a bit more about this, it makes sense. His VP planned the event, but did not expect this many people to attend. The police were afraid for both people and property, so they told him (the VP) to help them to disperse the crowd with twitter. The event had already been announced canceled at this point, but people weren't leaving. The VP refused to do this and made it that much harder to get rid of the crowd. His event, he should have done everything in his power to shut it down.

Also, I'm betting the police could have handled the crowd, but I think they probably were reluctant to use tear gas or the like on a bunch of teenage girls.
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Voyou_Charmant promoted this comment Edited by Rogue Justice at 11/23/09 5:51 PM Rogue Justice was starred Rogue Justice was unstarred

Voyou_Charmant
11/24/09

@Rogue Justice: Had it been only one 10 year old girl, they could have just tazered her. They simply weren't equipped to taze' that many kids.

Seriously, the police are trained to handle adults rioting, but not loitering teenagers? Think about what you are saying.

#tips
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
Did you say, a megaphone to disperse the crowd?
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balls187
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
Yeah, what if they had used tasers? People would be screaming bloody murder. At the least the police have a clue and tried to use Twitter.
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badhatharry
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
I hear they're going to use this tactic at the next WTO meeting. Pascal Lamy is just going to send out a tweet that the WTO has been cancelled, and all the hippies can go back to their windowsill organic gardens.
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Lite: hates Illinois Nazis
11/23/09

@badhatharry: Except that not all "hippies" are nonviolent.
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Nathan Obbards
11/23/09

In reply to Jailed for Not Using Twitter
What a bunch of twits.
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infmom
08/25/09

In reply to How Does a Blind Teenage "Swatter" Get 11 Years in Jail?
I used to know a bunch of phone phreaks in the 80s, met them through online contact on Viewtron and PlayNet. Fortunately, the leader liked me. I can remember being on the phone with people in Chicago and Texas and London all at the same time. They were all just kids--very smart kids. When we moved, they didn't get our new phone number. I sometimes wonder what happened to those guys.
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