judaism - Gizmodo

posts about #judaism more →
Mio Creates 'Kosher' GPS Unit, For The Most Orthodox of Geeks
iBlessing and ParveOMeter iPhone Apps Make You a Kosher Keeping Mensch
Ultra-Orthodox J-Phone Doesn't Roll On Shabbos

Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.

Dsmvwl Admin Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×

Curves
02/19/09

In reply to Mio Creates 'Kosher' GPS Unit, For The Most Orthodox of Geeks
Live and let live; believe (or not) and let believe. I, myself, am glad I have faith, but not religion, as it seems too hard to keep up with all the rules, and in some cases those rules ask their followers to kill followers of other religions. All I have to do is believe, so its a good deal for me.

Live long, in peace and plenty, whoever you are, and of whatever faith. :)
Reply

Curves was starred Curves was unstarred

strider_mt2k
02/19/09

In reply to Mio Creates 'Kosher' GPS Unit, For The Most Orthodox of Geeks
Too many rules man, but you're still beautiful baby.

Reply

strider_mt2k was starred strider_mt2k was unstarred

OMG! Ponies!
02/19/09

In reply to Mio Creates 'Kosher' GPS Unit, For The Most Orthodox of Geeks
I'm against most "kosher" tech on a philosophical ground.

While the keeping of the Sabbath is a commandment (a mitzvah), implicit is that it should be performed out of active choice. The commandment to keep the Sabbath is worded in the positive ("Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy") and it is understood to include active aspects such as the kiddush.

While one is supposed to abstain from the 39 prescribed categories of activity, again, there is implicit an active aspect.

Passive restraint through technology, to my thinking, negates the mitzvah. It requires no real performance on the part of the person. For example, if someone locks me in my house on Shabbat, have I performed the melachot of not transferring things between domains?
Reply

OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred

Erwos
02/19/09

@OMG! Ponies!: What does the Sabbath have to do with this thing? There's no indication whatsoever that it shuts down for the Sabbath, and, indeed, that would be a completely idiotic thing for it to do. Think about it: if you ever had to drive on the Sabbath, it's because there's a life-threatening emergency. In that case, you want your GPS to work right.

This is just a Mio loaded up with some Orthodox Jewish content. It's not a big deal, and the post's author completely misses the point of it, as is common with any religious-oriented tech story on Giz or Engagdet.
Reply

Erwos was starred Erwos was unstarred

OMG! Ponies!
02/19/09

@Erwos: In keeping with several tech projects being developed in Israel which get press here, in no small part out of curiosity.

For example, there is a "kosher" cell-phone that has no text messaging, no Internet access, no video options, no camera. More than 10,000 numbers for phone sex, dating services and other offerings are blocked and a team of rabbinical overseers makes sure the list is up to date.

The thinking is that the level of connectivity permits temptation and that then the user will sin. But that undermines the notion of free-will.

And it's not idiotic to assume that this would shut down on the Sabbath, given that this is a device that is already crippled out of consideration that being full-featured would lead to sin.

Here is the theological question for the day:

Why were Adam and Eve cast from Eden?
Reply

OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred

Erwos
02/19/09

@OMG! Ponies!: Because Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, and Adam, like every husband, just did as his wife told him. :)

Actually, just to turn this on its head: if Eve had stayed away from the tree in the first place, she probably wouldn't have eaten from it. Fascinating how the two of them seemed to be hanging around it, no? Maybe there is something to be said for avoiding temptation.

I don't see how this device is "crippled", at least with regards to their target market. The target market _doesn't care_ about all these places. If I could rip all the non-kosher restaurant POIs out of my own GPS unit, believe me, I would. Is it because, "OMG I'M TOO WEAK TO AVOID NON-KOSHER FOOD?" No, it's because _I don't care_ about those places and actively avoid them. Their presence, to me, is actually a negative.

Unless you've got evidence this thing shuts down on Shabbos, you can safely assume it doesn't, like almost every other bit of Jewish-oriented electronics I've ever seen. Making up a fantasy scenario in your head to prove your point doesn't actually prove your point.

Free will does not require you to surround yourself with temptation to be effective. I don't buy pork rinds and leave them on my desk just so that I can not eat them. So, as a theological argument, what you're saying is pretty much a non-starter. _Ultimately, it's about doing what G-d told you to do_, at least for Orthodox Jews. Whether it's easy or hard is up to you and Him, I suppose, but purposefully making it harder (too hard?) is not a virtue.
Reply

Erwos was starred Erwos was unstarred

ZLevee
02/19/09

@Erwos: You're gettng hung up on the Shabbat comment, shich was only an analogy. Ponies is referring to other aspects, like how this device intentionally doesn't have internet connectivity for your protection from the tempting sinful sites, or how you only have the option of a male voice.
Reply

ZLevee was starred ZLevee was unstarred

OMG! Ponies!
02/19/09

@Erwos: So then as soon as Adam and Eve ate of the Tree, they were cast out? I don't seem to recall that being what happened...
Reply

OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred

Erwos
02/19/09

@OMG! Ponies!: I don't even know what you're getting at. According to normative Orthodox Jewish tradition, they were tossed out because they ate from the fruit. The simple meaning of the verses does not contradict that.

They got punished, too. I'm still confused as to the point you're trying to make.
Reply

Erwos was starred Erwos was unstarred

Lupus_Yonderboy
02/19/09

@OMG! Ponies!: Interesting. I can see where you're coming from, but what about technologies that don't restrict choice but could still be considered "kosher" (if that word even applies), such as a Shabbat Elevator?
Reply

Lupus_Yonderboy was starred Lupus_Yonderboy was unstarred

ZLevee
02/19/09

@Lupus_Yonderboy: I would geuss OMG! Ponies! would say those are OK, 'cause in building that offer those there is still a regular elevator alongside it, giving you a choice.
Reply

ZLevee was starred ZLevee was unstarred

OMG! Ponies!
02/19/09

@Erwos: No. They hid from God and when questioned, did not take responsibility for their own actions. When God asked Adam what he did, Adam said "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree". In other words, Adam blamed God and Eve for his own actions. When God asked Eve, she said "The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Not my fault - someone tricked me.

If they were cast out for eating of the Tree, then it would say that they ate of the Tree and were then immediately cast out. While a simple reading may lead one to conclude that eating the fruit caused them to be cast out, one should bear in mind that the Torah is understood to be the word of God and He would not have put in material that He felt was extraneous. It should be considered too.

Similarly, Cain was not cursed because he slew Abel. He was cursed for turning away from God and not taking personal responsibility.

Am I splitting hairs? Yes. But there is a long tradition of hair-splitting with regard to the Torah.

Finally, I would appreciate a more civil tone. You have been singularly disrespectful and curt, not only to me, but to Ethan Allison
Reply

OMG! Ponies! was starred OMG! Ponies! was unstarred

Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion