@Thangka: Who do you think got paid the $10 million it took to make that mast, or the whole yacht? That money pays a lot of wages down the line.
It's kind of like the current rant against private jet ownership. That kind of money is made to be spent, and it goes back into the pockets of a lot of people working for a living in the form of salary. #larryellison
@pdok: The egregious disparity of wealth is what raises my "socialist hackles." Of course there's a trail of money left in his wake (hah, pun fun). #larryellison
@pdok: No, the problem with private jet ownership is that it is essentially subsidized by regular fliers, commercial airlines, tax allowances, and dodgy accounting, etc. such that private jet fliers do not bear the true costs of their usage. That, and trickle down economic theories simply do not work.
But, I don't begrudge Ellison his $10M yacht masts. Hell, he's one of the fun billionaires, and I'd keep him around just for the lulz. It's those *boring* billionaires, the ones who are snorting gold dust and crack cocaine off of an 18-year old's ass, then wiping their nose off on another 18-year old's ass, and not telling me about it. They fail to amuse me one bit. Who needs 'em? #larryellison
@ludwigk: My comment wasn't about the economics of jet ownership, but about the "rant" against it. There are many hands in the till, obviously, which is true of sports teams, brothels, or your choice of money-making ventures.
My perception is that people react to the indulgence of the rich with a mixture of disgust and envy, preventing an objective look at what their money does in the economy.
I'm not going to debate economics (I'd lose), however it's fair to say that with the government's perpetual orgy of spending, any trickling down is probably coming from an orifice best unnamed. #larryellison
@fastm3driver: Super high performan.ce stuff breaks all the time. Stuff like that is not usually built for durability, but pure performance.
We're not talking about your run of the mill bamboo or wood mast lovingly goldplated by virgins. Rather, it's going to be a hand built composite mast where every single inch of it is designed for optimal performance.
A formula 1 car can cost a good 15 million. The handbuilt engine, about $8mill worth, is good for maximum two races and then needs to be scrapped. Ferrari could build it to last 15 races, but then it wouldn't get the revs and power that they need to win a race.
Often performance and durability are on opposite ends of a design scale. For a racing team on the ground or in the water, it's an art to figure out where the balance between the two is for any given application. #larryellison
@bobofish: If a part breaks in F1 they improve on it before making another one. Do you think they designed the mast to last one run?
I get your point though. I'm a M.E., a F1 fan and I grew up in Newport RI. :) #larryellison
@bobofish: I can squint really hard and accept your argument with regard to F1 cars, where performance = speed and power, but how is this germane to the America's Cup? What sort of race is this? #larryellison
@ludwigk: If I squint really hard, I can see Wikipedia from my house.
There you will find exactly what kind of a race it is.
Just because a race is one on one does not mean it's any less of a race.
Going back to the F1 analogy, a lot of people would gladly eat their livers to have seen Ayrton Senna vs. Schumacher head to head, or even more recently Alonso and Schumacher one on one with nobody else on the track.
Come to think of it, the F1 analogy to America's Cup isn't bad. Both are as much fundraising and organisational efforts as they are actual racing. Maybe that's fair or maybe not, but it is what it is and people are obsessed about both sports. #larryellison
@bobofish: Nope. Wikipedia did NOT contain the substantive information about the race sufficient to establish that performance would be a much higher priority than durability. #larryellison
Yeah, that's real fine expensive gear you brought out here, Mr. Ellison. 'Course I don't know what that bastard shark's gonna do with it, might eat it I suppose. Seen one eat a rockin' chair one time. #larryellison
Yeah, Ellison's spot-on when he said that it was a "minor setback." Those professional racers have pit crews loaded with replacement parts at every single port of call they make, every leg of every race. A broken mast will kill their chances of winning a leg, but those two reserves are waiting quietly for the Oracle boat to pull into harbor.
You want to see some catastrophic yacht racing damage? Check out some of the footage of this year's Volvo Ocean Race. Nothin' like replacing an exploded rudder, in the middle of a freezing ocean, getting dunked in the drink!
For a lot less than $10 million I would build a boat made out of strippers and cocaine, powered by the Pope's piss and shaped like nunchucks. #larryellison
@Mike Zuniga: That was Unexpected: I bought some $10 mast the other day. The guy had some in the back of a white van and was telling me it was a killer deal. I now have five and no idea what to do with them. I guess if the going rate on them is $10 million, I could sell a few of them. #larryellison
"He turned the company around from insignificance and certain oblivion to the most recognizable and successful brand in consumer electronics." I beg to differ. Brands like Sony and Panasonic are far more recognizable than Apple. #stevejobs
@Deep-Blue: I can. Pepsi is the colour of failure, while Coke is the colour of tasty. Very easy to recognize and differentiate between the two. If I wanted to further describe differences, Dr. Pepper is the colour of fantastic, 7up is the colour of light citrus, Sprite is the colour of 7up but more vibrant, Fanta is the colour of fruity, Mountain Dew is the colour of role playing, and all diet sodas are the colour of cancer. I think that just about sums it up.
@Duckspwn: Loves Approving Reds: Yet another example of people not knowing what they are talking about. Yes, Coke sells more pop than PepsiCo, however Pepsi is a much more profitable company.
Every time you eat a bag of delicious Lays Potato-Chips - Pepsi.
Every time someone enjoys a healthy glass of Tropicana OJ - Pepsi.
Every time some kid, old, or hospalised person eats a bowl of Quaker Oats - Pepsi.
And, every time any sports player, be it professional, college, or school age drinks Gatorade.... PEPSI.
Correction: Coke is the colour of tasty; Pepsi is the colour of 'tasty' mixed w/uber profitability to make fantastic. #apple
@UWAZell: What? Not to be rude, but I didn't even mention anything about sales and profit... I was just saying I like Coke better. Sheesh. Good comment though, you seem to know what you are talking about. #apple
@Duckspwn: Loves Approving Reds: My mother worked at Pepsi when i was younger (currently 17 years old). Our kitchen is filled with Pepsi memorabilia and i drink a couple a day. So in the words of Monty Python. "I blow my nose at you." #apple
@The Banana Man: Note that I did not say it caused cancer. :) I merely stated it tasted like cancer. Every eat a tumor? To my surprise, it tastes like diet pop.
@Christopher Kenneth Kolodin: I'm not very familiar with his work, although after briefly scanning his wikipedia page I feel obligated to read his most famous pieces. Any suggestions? #apple
I may be mis-remembering, but didn't Steve Jobs borrow money from Ross Perot to create NeXT, and as I recall that did not go quite as planned until Steve was able to convince his old stomping ground to buy out his failing company? (Of course, it is a blessing they did since Mac OS X is merely a version of the NeXT OS, of course.)
In any case, it does not surprise me that Steve would turn down such a proposal.
As far as the "moral high ground", I don't think making decisions (and forcing them on his employees) has ever been an issue for him. #apple
You could just skip the "consumer electronics" part and say "most recognizable and successful brand today." You see an Apple logo, you know what it means. You see any one of Microsoft's dozens of logos, you may or may not have a clue WTF it means.
@N@tedog: Sure. But look at the Brand Value Change figure. Microsoft at -11% and Apple at 55%.
In simple terms, the Microsoft brand, is losing value in the consumers mind, i.e. negative experiences with Windows or the XBox.
The Apple brand on the other hand, is gaining consumer confidence in the value of the brand, and therefore, the company.
Then again, look at Dell at #39 with a -24% change in their brand value.
It'd be interesting to see the 2008 and 2009 results.
For all his alleged douche-baggery, you can't help but admire this man for his moxy. The guy knows what he wants and he goes and gets it his way, with absolutely no regard for what other people think. Sometimes this means taking the handicapped spot in the parking lot, but often it means taking a broken company, and turning it into the an icon. #apple
@jerrymedina: Maybe Jobs is the kind of idiot who can't properly determine when to use "you're" versus "your" in a sentence. A good CEO, maybe... but still... #apple
@Jason Ultra: With all due respect, let it go. Jesus just has a hyperbolic writing style. His prose aren't always objective but I'm sure you know what he's getting at. #apple
@Jesus Diaz: The guy expressed his opinion and the fact tha the could be wrong. Why are you being so rude? Microsoft does produce a sizable amount of consumer electronics. They may not be the most popular (least of all with you, for gratuitously obvious reasons) but they do sell a large amount of Microsoft-branded consumer electronics, from PC peripherals to PMPs and game consoles. They may not manufacture all of the hardware themselves, but then, these days, who does? I suppose Apple manufactures all of its hardware in its own Cupertino basement? Maybe, just maybe, before calling someone an assclown, you might want to step in and define the parameters of the argument more clearly? I've seen people torn apart, disemvowelled and de-starred for that sort of "assclownery" inthe past. Step up, Jesus. #apple
@Jason Ultra: @Jux: @COCOViper: Jesus is obviously extremely biased in this regard, a fact which longtime readers of Giz would probably be aware of. On the other hand, despite his bias, I personally find his remark to be in poor form for an editor. He has also closed the comment thread for promotion, thus denying the immediate visibility of editorial replies, and rebuttals. Essentially, he stated his opinion as fact, immaturely insulted someone who questioned him, then took his ball and bat and went home.
In the future, we should probably dismiss his Apple-related articles as likely containing egregious amounts of hyperbolic rhetoric (well beyond the daily recommended allowance) and look to other editors for higher standards of editorial conduct. #apple
@met2art: With respect to brand recognition in consumer electronics spaces, which products among MS electronics are leaders in terms of a) dominance and b) recognizeability in that particular space?
I cannot think of a single product coming from MS meeting that description, which is indeed what would be necessary to qualify the objection to the statement in question. Xbox360 comes close. The brand is fairly recognizeable, but is not the leader in its space. With the rest, PMP, keyboards, mice, MS is completely lost in a sea of non-recognizeable, non industry-leading positions.
Recognizeable and successful are certainly subjective, but MS cannot best Apple w.r.t. consumer electronics given ANY reasonable interpretation of these words. Whether Apple qualifies that statement is debatable, but whether MS succeeds Apple in this regard is not.
The question was never "does MS make consumer products?", or even "do they make a lot of them?" which is why those points, and facts relating to them, are irrelevant. #apple
11/08/09
Shit like this raises Socialist hackles on my back. #larryellison
11/08/09
It's kind of like the current rant against private jet ownership. That kind of money is made to be spent, and it goes back into the pockets of a lot of people working for a living in the form of salary. #larryellison
11/08/09
11/09/09
But, I don't begrudge Ellison his $10M yacht masts. Hell, he's one of the fun billionaires, and I'd keep him around just for the lulz. It's those *boring* billionaires, the ones who are snorting gold dust and crack cocaine off of an 18-year old's ass, then wiping their nose off on another 18-year old's ass, and not telling me about it. They fail to amuse me one bit. Who needs 'em? #larryellison
11/09/09
My perception is that people react to the indulgence of the rich with a mixture of disgust and envy, preventing an objective look at what their money does in the economy.
I'm not going to debate economics (I'd lose), however it's fair to say that with the government's perpetual orgy of spending, any trickling down is probably coming from an orifice best unnamed. #larryellison
11/08/09
11/08/09
We're not talking about your run of the mill bamboo or wood mast lovingly goldplated by virgins. Rather, it's going to be a hand built composite mast where every single inch of it is designed for optimal performance.
A formula 1 car can cost a good 15 million. The handbuilt engine, about $8mill worth, is good for maximum two races and then needs to be scrapped. Ferrari could build it to last 15 races, but then it wouldn't get the revs and power that they need to win a race.
Often performance and durability are on opposite ends of a design scale. For a racing team on the ground or in the water, it's an art to figure out where the balance between the two is for any given application. #larryellison
11/08/09
I get your point though. I'm a M.E., a F1 fan and I grew up in Newport RI. :) #larryellison
11/09/09
11/09/09
There you will find exactly what kind of a race it is.
Just because a race is one on one does not mean it's any less of a race.
Going back to the F1 analogy, a lot of people would gladly eat their livers to have seen Ayrton Senna vs. Schumacher head to head, or even more recently Alonso and Schumacher one on one with nobody else on the track.
Come to think of it, the F1 analogy to America's Cup isn't bad. Both are as much fundraising and organisational efforts as they are actual racing. Maybe that's fair or maybe not, but it is what it is and people are obsessed about both sports. #larryellison
11/09/09
11/08/09
11/08/09
You want to see some catastrophic yacht racing damage? Check out some of the footage of this year's Volvo Ocean Race. Nothin' like replacing an exploded rudder, in the middle of a freezing ocean, getting dunked in the drink!
[www.volvooceanrace.org] #larryellison
11/08/09
11/08/09
I think these guys are getting ripped-offs... #larryellison
11/08/09
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11/05/09
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Every time you eat a bag of delicious Lays Potato-Chips - Pepsi.
Every time someone enjoys a healthy glass of Tropicana OJ - Pepsi.
Every time some kid, old, or hospalised person eats a bowl of Quaker Oats - Pepsi.
And, every time any sports player, be it professional, college, or school age drinks Gatorade.... PEPSI.
Correction: Coke is the colour of tasty; Pepsi is the colour of 'tasty' mixed w/uber profitability to make fantastic. #apple
11/05/09
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11/05/09
[www.cancer.org] #apple
11/05/09
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11/05/09
In any case, it does not surprise me that Steve would turn down such a proposal.
As far as the "moral high ground", I don't think making decisions (and forcing them on his employees) has ever been an issue for him. #apple
11/05/09
11/05/09
[www.millwardbrown.com] #apple
11/06/09
In simple terms, the Microsoft brand, is losing value in the consumers mind, i.e. negative experiences with Windows or the XBox.
The Apple brand on the other hand, is gaining consumer confidence in the value of the brand, and therefore, the company.
Then again, look at Dell at #39 with a -24% change in their brand value.
It'd be interesting to see the 2008 and 2009 results.
11/11/09
11/05/09
11/05/09
"Previous work experience: 'You're boss'" #apple
11/05/09
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11/05/09
You've heard of Microsoft, right? Maybe not? #apple
11/05/09
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11/05/09
Doh - need to read before I post huh? Okay.... well what all them other folks said.
11/05/09
Does that count for anything? Dell and Sony bringing it home.
Probably not. Don't call me an assclown. #apple
11/05/09
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11/05/09
In the future, we should probably dismiss his Apple-related articles as likely containing egregious amounts of hyperbolic rhetoric (well beyond the daily recommended allowance) and look to other editors for higher standards of editorial conduct. #apple
11/05/09
I cannot think of a single product coming from MS meeting that description, which is indeed what would be necessary to qualify the objection to the statement in question. Xbox360 comes close. The brand is fairly recognizeable, but is not the leader in its space. With the rest, PMP, keyboards, mice, MS is completely lost in a sea of non-recognizeable, non industry-leading positions.
Recognizeable and successful are certainly subjective, but MS cannot best Apple w.r.t. consumer electronics given ANY reasonable interpretation of these words. Whether Apple qualifies that statement is debatable, but whether MS succeeds Apple in this regard is not.
The question was never "does MS make consumer products?", or even "do they make a lot of them?" which is why those points, and facts relating to them, are irrelevant. #apple