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12/03/09
12/02/09
I have nothing to hide, nor do I care if someone knows about every part of my life. I don't surf any weird porn, I don't break any major laws (just the minor ones most people do), and I don't care if someone is watching me do something.
What are they gonna do? Blackmail me with my Netflix ratings?
Just get over it people. Cameras are going to be covering every square inch of the world eventually, facial/stride recognition will be ubiquitous, no one will care!
What do you have to hide?
12/02/09
I will fight for my right to privacy and you should too.
12/02/09
2) because marketers are annoying
12/02/09
Ten years from now you're looking for health insurance because you quit your job and started your own business. The insurance investigator digs up your Facebook post and deems you have a pre-existing condition. No insurance in the world will ever cover costs related to that old back injury or anything that can be even remotely tied to your back. Why?
Because you have nothing to hide.
12/02/09
I also happen to be smart enough not to tweet/fb about drugs or illegal activity (there are a few photos of me smoking pot on facebook, but if someone thinks bad of me for that, screw them).
I am very glad I did not grow up influenced by the Cold War or WWII because I find many people who did have this idea that the world works the same way today.
I fight for my right to security, not privacy. Once again, I have nothing to hide, and those who judge me by what I don't hide have every right to do so. Don't wanna hire me because I think global warming is real or gay marriage should be legal? GOOD, I don't want to work for you.
12/02/09
12/02/09
It doesn't matter if the government isn't always right, I'd rather them be mostly right and occasionally wrong. Has the government ever invaded your privacy?
12/02/09
Without privacy, you have no security.
"Has the government ever invaded your privacy?"
Yes.
12/02/09
The world is not living in some kind of time bubble where nothing changes. All of these issues you discuss are going to be impossible to avoid once there are cameras and mics EVERYWHERE.
I'm just adapting to the times and have been doing fine. I want to work for myself for the rest of my life, so I don't have to worry about employment, and the services which use my "private" information make my life a lot better, more efficient, and enjoyable (Mint.com for example).
12/02/09
I say just get used to it, I'm not controlling your privacy, technology is, and technology cannot be stopped.
12/02/09
I'm sure if the side your arguing with could have one voice it would simply say "non of their damn business."
The problem I have with privacy is when job interviewers go on social websites and hunt down your accounts to see just how the "REAL" you is. Throwing out the ago old saying "I keep my business and social life separated."
As for the topic at hand I could care less about sprint given up info to police. Not like the police are going to sell your info to the highest bidder.
12/02/09
12/02/09
12/02/09
In your own words, the world is not living in a bubble where nothing changes. Neither are you. Ten years can produce a lot of changes. You may very well find yourself looking for insurance someday. You may very well end up working for someone else someday.
Unless you know something I don't... like, how to predict the future.
Burning your own bridges and tossing out your privacy because you think you're "adapting to the times" or you're the cool new Interweb generation and that's the way it's done now, it just plain reckless.
Whatever you do is your business, but just remember, once your privacy is gone, there's no getting it back.
12/02/09
I don't post stupid stuff on FB/Twitter, and an employer would have to be in one of my networks or one of my friends to get any real access.
Furthermore, I would PREFER that they do this. I represent who I am on Facebook, and if they can't take it, then I don't wanna work for them. I personally think they will like what they see, one more reason I say "I have nothing to hide".
12/02/09
And just because you haven't done anything wrong doesn't for one second mean you can't be accused of doing something wrong. Then some LEO somewhere can go drudging up your cell phone records and nitpick every move you make, every thing you say and every person you call. Can run through FB and find out everything you post on there too, as they can with twitter. It's scary. And to think, as we speak FB is allowing even MORE security/privacy. Allowing you have even more granular control over who sees what.
You seem naive, and without foresight. I mean, at the end of the day, not being able to see value in privacy is a problem. Ask anyone who lives in a very oppressive country.
12/02/09
I already have insurance and don't partake in risky behavior so I see no reason why I should be so worried about this. I don't really post on the internet about my body functions anyway (most people don't care, not a privacy thing).
In the meantime I'll be using all the awesome new tools available to people who aren't afraid of the future.
12/02/09
12/02/09
Once again, I don't do anything illegal except occasionally smoke pot or drive 5 mph over the limit.
So they accuse me of some wrongdoing, check me out, and find out I didn't do it......DUN DUN DUN!
12/02/09
Or your friends would have had to use some apps that scraped that data and saved it to be sold later. Personally, I don't post anything online that I'm not comfortable with being public knowledge. I would also never allow a picture to be taken of me doing anything illegal. Sure, the odds are that none of it would ever come back to bite me but why risk it? What's the upside to posting that stuff? For me to take a risk, I have to see a benefit.
12/02/09
I personally hate Facebook apps (except the fbCal and Twitter ones) and don't use them, so no worries there.
But I will reiterate again. If someone is persistent enough that they manage to find me doing something they don't like, I don't really want to have anything to do with them because the majority of things I do are not illegal and not offensive.
12/02/09
when i read what your write the only question i have is perhaps this is a age gap thing; because one should care if a company based their decision on whether or not to hire you because of a picture of you getting drunk at a party.
Or perhaps a friend uses your name and posts a funny thing that happen to you guys, but it just so happens you got the one interviewer that doesn't find it funny. I know these are a lot of what if's. however i count these as variables to consider in the equation as to whether or not you get a job you want.
12/02/09
But, the idea of protecting privacy isn't saying that you don't have the right to do whatever you want, it is saying the government -- and third parties -- should have limits on what they can do with your information. No privacy regime anywhere prevents you from taking your intimate details and putting them out in the public.
So, even if you can honestly say you have nothing to hide, what about someone who does have something they want to--and should be able to--keep private? Someone, say, whose medical records show they were treated for a mental disorder, or maybe an STD, or maybe belonged to a particular political party. Say they don't have a college degree and their choices are retail or entry level jobs where their ability to feed themselves and their kids is going to be compromised by something that isn't necessarily their fault and--in an ideal world--no one should care about.
You can do whatever you want. I don't understand it. I'm not sure I agree with your view that it will have no consequences. But, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned when there is a fuss about privacy rights and having those rights taken away.
12/02/09
I wasn't trying to cover every minute detail of your particular life. I'm just saying, and so are you, that the future is unpredictable. You seem to think you've got it all figured out, and I promise you, you don't.
In the last 25 years, I've been:
Student
Grocery clerk
Pizza guy
Stockboy
Cashier
Telemarketer
Steel worker
Construction worker
Scam artist
Drug dealer
Auto mechanic
Soldier
Security officer
Long-haul trucker
Computer repair tech
Network installer
Radio DJ
Web designer
Graphic designer
Sign shop owner
Unemployed
Rich
Poor
and homeless twice.
(not necessarily in that order)
Do you think I had all that mapped out 25 years ago?
I know what it's like to think you've got the world by the balls. Trust me, you don't.
12/02/09
My point is that people draw the line WAY too close when it comes to privacy, and this limits more often than it helps.
Furthermore, I believe that the progression of technology is going to make privacy such a moot point that our society MUST adapt since they won't be able to regulate it. Once there are kids who are born into this society without ever knowing anything previous, we will have a far healthier society where people have far fewer prejudices, stereotypes, and other such societal problems that come from lack of exposure to others.
I'm talking about a few generations, but could definitely lead to a world without theft, with drastically reduced violent crime, and with all the personal freedoms you enjoy today (except the ability to poo or screw without someone watching).
I happen to believe that the privacy of our society is what causes so many of the social anxieties and hatreds that exist today.
12/02/09
12/02/09
I am not a wild person. I barely drink, I smoke on occasion, and rarely go faster than the speed limit. My worst transportation infraction is not wearing a bike helmet (this is the stupidest thing I do in my opinion). I also don't post EVERYTHING I do on the internet, though it likely wouldn't be an issue if I did.
Privacy is absolutely a subjective thing which each person should cater to their own needs and lifestyle, however that does not mean that EVERY bit of privacy is equal. For the majority of people, location privacy is just not going to be an issue in their lives, and in most cases it is very useful or even life-saving to broadcast location (there are more and more stories of people who have been saved due to GPS or similar on their phones).
Particularly once augmented reality becomes more common-place, location broadcasting will become normal (see Loopt, FourSquare, Twitter, Facebook). Is the government really going to follow every single person to see if they do something wrong? No.
12/02/09
I'm not going to do some Unibomber crap like building some shack in the mountains, but I damn sure am not going to just volunteer information to anyone who might want it.
If people want that info, they'll get it, I'm just going to do my best to make them work for it. And if that means smashing RFID chips, wearing a hoody and scarf in the summer and speaking pig-latin in public with a thick Irish accent, I have no problem with that.
12/02/09
12/02/09
Also, this running theme of "augmented reality" is very embedded with you. Personally, I don't see that future the same way you do. I reject the idea that cameras & mics will be everywhere, and I think most people are against such control & invasion of privacy. There are communities that have successfully petitioned in getting traffic cams removed from entire cities.
As for the government following or not following private citizen activities, you seem to be comfortable with slipping through the cracks and leaning on hope, and that's great for you. I however, choose not to rely on the government's mercy concerning my life and my privacy.
The saying, "No one is going to do it for you" is very true when it comes to safeguarding your own personal privacy.
12/02/09
This leads to a lot of limitations other people won't have. For example I broadcast my location through Twitter and some iPhone apps. This has more than once led to friends in the area meeting up with me when I had no idea they were around, or receiving suggestions from people I don't know as to what I should do or where to go in the area.
Furthermore I have broader (less founded) ideas about privacy I described earlier. I believe that a society which was used to not having privacy would be far healthier than ours. I initially got this idea from an Arthur C. Clarke book I read where tiny, invisible, undetectable and unjammable cameras become easy and cheap to make (over the course of some time). The world goes through a phase of very chaotic adjustment, but once children born into this new paradigm start growing up, they are much better people than those who existed before.
They see that other people are just as flawed as they are, that no one is perfect, and that everyone lives pretty similar lives despite looking different or having different cultures. We all shit, fuck, and love, but we don't get to see that other people do this too. Not to mention the immediate drop in crime once every square inch of civilization is being filmed 24/7 and analyzed in real time with facial recognition and other such low-level AIs (using the term AI very loosely here).
I of course could be wrong about this last part, but I happen to find that the more people are exposed to others, the more open and accepting they are, and the more they agree as a whole on what actions are truly evil (murder, rape, etc, not gay marriage or wearing a skirt).
12/02/09
Until I hear more horror stories than good stories about lack of privacy, I will continue to support it, because it helps more than it hurts.
12/02/09
Nor am I doing ANY of this for safety. It seems that everyone else is arguing the safety route, while I am taking the riskier "free" path.
12/02/09
This is all utopian pipe smoke though. You are forgetting the element of humanity at large. Hate to break it to you but there are plenty of people in this world that want nothing to do with that whole idea. There are racists and killers and thieves and truly evil people out there and there always will be.
You can't just grow new generations into this ideal world of cameras and no privacy. There will always be someone to exploit it. Having cameras everywhere is not going to stop crime any more than gun laws stop shootings.
Want to fix the world? Figure out a way to eliminate religion.
12/02/09
I also fundamentally do not trust the watchers. You say AIs will monitor everything, but this sounds like my definition of a distopia. You believe that this future is egalitarian, but I don't see that happening. Power is relinquished very slowly. Those in power may implement surveillance, but they themselves will not submit to it. Because the whole point about power seems to be abusing it.
I'd be curious about the Clarke book. What you are saying reminds me, actually, of John Brunner's Shockwave Rider from 1975. A notable book because it introduced the concept of a computer worm, among other things. I should probably stop there to avoid burning the plot, but given what you've said, you might like it.
12/02/09
My pot smoking has as much to do with pride as someone smoking cigarettes or eating cheese. If I stop, I stop, but seeing how I am doing now, I don't see why I would be ashamed of it or regret it.
Plus, I am fairly confident in my ability to work for myself. I have the drive and plenty of ideas, at least one of them is going to work out (and I come up with new ones every day!). Furthermore, partially through my lack of privacy, I have met quite a few people who are interested in working with me or can help connect me to people who can fund or invest.
You have every right to reject my ideas about the future, but I would like to see some evidence or reasoning. Moores law and just about every other technological trend out there agrees with me, and the government does not control every camera. Whether its legal or not, people are going to do it because they can. Thus the inevitability of it.
PS - How am I "slipping through the cracks"?
12/02/09
Sometimes a perfectly good reason to zig is just because everyone else is zagging.
12/02/09
Reasoning against your ideas would be as I stated. Not everyone is going to willingly hand over their privacy and go along with that. The ones that do open themselves up to being exploited by criminals, crazies, government, and corporate interests. Are you really down for that? I'm not.
Cameras everywhere? Won't happen. They won't be in homes, certainly not my home, and the idea of public cams everywhere will invite the wholesale destruction of them.
Stopping crime? How? Ever heard of a ski mask? One can of spray paint can wipe out a lot of cameras. It would be a war of attrition. Keep destroying them until the powers-that-be decide they don't want to dump any more money into a losing proposition. In the end, it's all about money, and if it's not cost effective, it ain't gonna happen.
Do you honestly believe that the gangs give a shit about cameras? They'll be reselling them to yuppie suburbanites the same day they are installed.
You simply cannot monitor the public at large. We can't even properly police the public at large.
12/02/09
It may not happen in a generation, but all trends point towards a future with less and less killing, racism, and other such things.
However I would be happy to look at any data you have demonstrating otherwise (please over a long period of time, short fluctuations mean nothing).
12/02/09
12/02/09
12/02/09
Not to mention, quality of human life and iPhones mean jack to the millions & millions of people still starving every day or the ones earning 8 cents a day in sweatshops physically making all the crap we buy.
Economically speaking, most of the US is feeling pretty raped right now, and distrust of corporate motives and government competence has exploded. The Fed is in the crosshairs (justifiably so), and everyone is on edge. "Quality of Life" is an illusion. It can be taken from you in the blink of an eye.
Logistics will be the death nell however. They simply cannot put a camera everywhere. And wherever the cameras aren't, debauchery & decadence & exploitation & the dark side of humanity in general will march on.
12/02/09
Regarding the cameras, you are thinking way too rigidly about how cameras work today versus how they will work in the future.
This isn't about people accepting cameras into their homes, its about people having no choice because they won't even know the cameras are there. It's about microphones floating through the air like dust. It's about every random citizen having access to technology we can't even imagine today.
Like I said, it is going to be a drastically different world, so we can't use today's behavior to judge it. But we CAN use the trends we see in technology and how they relate to society.
12/02/09
You might have missed it earlier, but I was targeted by some nut for over a year. He dug up family phone numbers & addresses, friends, clients,.... called them at all hours of the night, would send police over with some bizarre story, etc. This went on for a year and then some.
Like I said, once your privacy is gone, you don't get it back. I had to move, change banks, change my name, change numbers, have all my family & friends change their numbers.... I had to fall off the face of the earth and start over.
And yeah... at the time, I thought the same way. I had nothing to hide.
Until some freak picks YOU.
12/02/09
Today's behavior is no different than at any time in our history. People have been killing other people since people existed. Cameras & iPhones & ISP logs aren't going to change that.
Sure, we may be more comfortable in big chairs watching giant TVs, and have connectivity to everything imaginable.... this morning I was reading about the MIT genius than just invented wireless electricity.... awesome..... but humans are just as primal as they've ever been. To think otherwise is to put on horse blinders to the world around you and the history behind you.
What's the most important thing in the world?
Necessity.
People will do whatever they need to at any given moment to fill necessity. Held underwater for too long? You'd kill your own mother to get some air. Technology cannot and will not ever change that fundamental rule. It only numbs us to it a bit.
12/02/09
And seriously, if you don't care about pictures of you smoking pot on facebook, you're kind of a moron anyway. It's like the epitome of stupidity.
12/02/09
Hans Rosling shows us how wrong our pessimism about human progress is with excellent statistics: [bit.ly] and [bit.ly]
Who is this "they" who can't put cameras everywhere? There is no "they", it's going to be everyone. Look at how cheap CCD chips and mics are. Look at how small they can make them, and how much smaller they are now compared to 5 years ago. Stop thinking of them as little cameras you put in your pocket or in the corner of an elevator. They will be like DUST, everywhere.
12/02/09
I encourage new information technology, and that just happens to reduce the capability for privacy. Sure some people may not like that, but in my opinion it is better for humanity in the long run.
About the pot thing, grow up. So some people tagged me smoking a J in college. I have had 4 jobs since then, all of whom did background checks (dunno if they checked Facebook, but they would have had to go through a lot of photos). I also have zero photos of me doing all the drunken and stupid things that most people have on Facebook because I barely drink.
Now what is going to give a better impression? Your average Facebook photo page filled with drunken idiocy, or my Facebook photo page which shows me standing around in various locations, never looking drunk, never holding a drink.
I would also avoid calling people a moron just because of a photo you have never seen. I would say it was the epitome of stupid for you to do that, but it wasn't, so I won't.
12/02/09
And who is going to monitor these trillions of camera dust particles?
Too much ganja dude.... put the bong down and step away from the lighter.
12/02/09
Longer life, more freedom, more education, fewer and smaller wars, fewer genocides with more exposure of the ones that do happen, etc, etc.
I'll refer you to Hans Rosling again, please watch these videos they are very informative on the topic: [bit.ly] and [bit.ly]
12/02/09
Since you say you are in a tech related profession, you should know how fast camera and processor technology are accelerating. What reason is there for it to suddenly stop? People kept predicting Moore's law wouldn't work out every decade, and yet it keeps going.
You are beginning to sound like every generation when it gets a bit older, they think things just stop changing for some reason, despite the fact that they are changing faster than ever before.
Like the people who thought that blacks and whites would never get along, and that racial differences were inherent to human nature.
Like the people who thought that we would never fly, or that computers would never get past 128kb of RAM and be in every person's home (much less pocket!).
I find it amazing how limited peoples' imaginations are when it comes to technology and the future. They don't realize just how far we have come, and just how much amazing good it has done for the world.
12/02/09
The better impression is being conscientious enough to not have any compromising pictures of you on the internet. The best impression is set by not being on facebook at all.
I don't know what I need to grow up about, it's still illegal, and people less liberal and more uptight than myself do hold positions of power and care that whether you smoke pot. It's stupid to give them any ammo needlessly.
And yeah, you're right, having those pictures online is way dumber than just saying someone is a moron, you're right.
12/02/09
You've been living in a dream world Neo. I would ask you to take a look at Burma, Somalia, Yemen, Afghanistan, hell, most of the world outside of the US, Canada, UK, Japan & Europe. It's not a pretty picture.
You realize nations like Saudi Arabia are as archaic and brutal as they were 1000 years ago, yet we turn a blind eye to it because of oil. China is not the land of the free or the home of the brave. It's oppressive, intolerant, abusive & life threatening, both to its own people and the rest of the world. You understand the oceans are being raped 24 hours a day and virtually no one knows or cares.
Seriously man.... any ideas of changing the world with cameras and shit is best left to the movies. It ain't gonna happen.
12/02/09
Setting an impression on who? Setting the best impression by not using Facebook? Wha?
You do realize why it's illegal right? Read up on the history of it, you will be surprised. I am not giving anyone ammo. I am a successful college graduate who smokes pot, in fact that should be evidence that pot should be legalized. Particularly since I hardly drink, I am a far safer and more responsible person than most people I know. How many people are killed by alcohol versus pot? A ridiculous number.
I also have no wish to be in any place where my life is controlled by someone who is less liberal and more uptight than me, thus why I work for a cool company with cool people and am developing my own business where the only person I work for is myself and my employees!
I don't get the last part. I never said that it was dumber than calling someone a moron. You must have read it wrong.
Those pictures have been there for 5 years now and I haven't heard a thing about it. I would bet that no one ever looks that far into my photos anyway.
12/02/09
Ask the majority of Chinese and they like the way their country is run. I don't, but I don't have a right to speak for them, I can just state my opinion.
Do you really think that Feudal China or all the horrific dynasties were better than the current Communist China which is headed towards total capitalism and in all likelihood Democracy in the future?
I never said that nothing bad happens. They certainly do, but relative to what used to be the case, things have drastically improved. Also these are anecdotal instances. In the past these places were not in these situations, and globalization has its turmoils, there will be times when bad stuff happens. But the overall trend has nary a dip in it.
Please see the two bit.ly links I posted. I am not talking out of my ass here, I have done the research and I have given you something to reference. If you are unwilling to provide evidence or reasoning to counter mine what is the point of discussing it?
12/02/09
I'm not being rude to you either. You freely gave up your privacy about your dope smoking habit here today. It's too late to be offended by the consequences of that now. You had nothing to hide, and I worked that information into my comment. It's the brave new world you're embracing.
12/02/09
I have no problem with you mentioning my pot smoking, I just don't see the benefit to the conversation in the way you used it, particularly in the context you used it.
But that really doesn't matter, please watch those Hans Rosling videos, that is the topic at hand and I feel like it may give you a better perspective on the progress of the world than you have.
I'm amazed at how many people think the world has gone to shit, but then don't have any statistics or evidence to back it up, they just cite Afghanistan, Somalia, or Africa as a whole. DO SOME RESEARCH. You are simply wrong when it comes to this and that is numbers talking, not my opinion.
12/02/09
Slave labor and rampant pollution continue as we speak in China. High seas piracy hasn't decreased or improved, it's become streamlined and incorporated. Environmental rape hasn't improved, it's exponentially gotten much worse. Government abuse hasn't improved, it's become more efficient & secretive. Gangs don't care about Brylcream and hotrods anymore, they are on par with government. Violence & brute force is still king in a lot of places. Feudal China killed far less people than we can kill right now with a nod. (and have.)
We're not advancing... we're getting good at being shitty. Technology has improved the way we abuse, kill, exploit and conquer other people.
Yes, tech can be positive, namely the many advances in medicine and communications. But on the whole, it's been used for the benefit of the military (which is a tool of the gov), and for corporate greed. The technological sheepifying of the population serves both of those purposes.
12/02/09
There is more environmental awareness now than at any point in history. There are more people working in altruistic and charitable organizations than at any point in history (both percentage wise, and in sheer number).
Evidence and reasoning, not blind assertions which completely fail to match the numbers (WATCH THE VIDEOS).
12/02/09
I mean, really, does the Slap-Chop improve our lives as a whole? Does 9999 channels of useless satellite garbage on a 90" plasma tv really enrich mankind? I have a tiny camera built into this MBP I'm typing on and I've never used it once. I find the iPhone offensive to me as a human being. I had the thing for two years, and fail to see how I am better off as a person than before I got it. Have millions upon millions of cars and the creation of Suburbia propelled us into a higher state of being?
Most tech is garbage. Designed solely for profit. Very little actually helps us in any way.
12/02/09
Your 'it's going to happen anyway, might as well learn to live with it' perspective is the preemptive acknowledgement of defeat.
12/02/09
If you also refuse to understand that my point has nothing to do with Cable TV or the iPhone then you really don't get it.
But I'll give you a short list because I'm nice:
Water filtration, medicine (big one) and vaccination, sanitation, educational research/tech, birth control/STD control, global awareness, Doctors w/out Borders, UN, Red Cross, international disaster relief, the EU, climate science, refugee management, world wide transportation, the freaking internet, genetics, agriculture (huge), and I could go on and on and on.
Also many of those have vast sub-categories and numerous benefits on the side. PS - Watch the videos, stop talking blindly and actually look at some stats for once.
12/02/09
Water filtration means nothing when there isn't any water to be had. Hawaii & California will be my examples since those are US States, and don't have enough water to go around, let alone 3rd world countries.
Medicine advances are great, but mean nothing to those with no insurance and no money, at least in the US.
Vaccination: Great... where's my H1N1 vac?
Educational research/Tech: Really? The US ranks nearly dead last in education by world standards.
Birth Control: Finally, something useful.
Global awareness? There are crews out shark-finning as we speak and rich people buying it up. Japan is slaughtering whales as fast as they can and our own government is in complete denial about the fact that the Arctic Circle will have no ice left very shortly.
Doctors without borders, UN, Red Cross, international disaster relief: All shut down and rendered ineffective for places like Burma that tell them, "Stay the fuck out."
The Internet: Abused more than used.
I could go on and on too.
Exactly ZERO of the tech we've created since the beginning of time has changed any of this. It's only made us more efficient at filling necessity. We're still greedy, petty, self-serving, evil, nasty agenda-driven humans.
12/02/09
I know, weird right?
12/02/09
Do you have any history beyond the past decade or two? Like seriously, even a cursory knowledge of humanity's past will show you how ridiculous your counter points are.
Shark finners? I actually laughed at that one. Then I thought about the inquisition.
H1N1 vaccine? So you are discounting the vaccines which have saved millions of lives around the world from extreme diseases, and you counter with the lack of a vaccine for a disease which is generally less harmful than the regular flu?
The idea that there isn't enough water to go around is actually false. There is plenty of water, it is the filtration and distribution which is the problem (please look it up).
Watch the Hans Rosling video and then tell me that humanity has not improved around the world.
No wonder you want privacy, you hate humanity and apparently your only exposure to the rest of it is through mainstream media who just report on the recent evils, not the overall improvement over the millenia (and vast improvement this century as the video shows).
12/03/09
Oh, and admitting to weed use on the intertubes was a nice touch...did you post from your mobile device?
12/03/09
This is not about the government. It is about the inevitable loss of privacy due to ALL people observing, whether the government likes it or not, they will be spied on too (though they probably can afford signal jamming more than the average person). Look at what YouTube has done to campaigning, that is only the beginning.
I'm really sick of the paranoia people have about the government. They aren't all out to prosecute every damn person in the country. I'm not saying I like them, but all trends point towards more lenient drug laws and growing support for revamping the prison system and treating rather than jailing non-violent criminals.
The Patriot Act has done jack to my life, or the lives of anyone I know. I'm sure it has been abused or misused, but rarely and it comes to public attention (thanks to many of these privacy reducing tools we have, like the internet).
You can talk all you want about how in the future we are all going to live in a super-prison-state where breathing through the wrong nostril is illegal and you can only make right turns, but I'm going to stay here in the realm of reality where the government can't go bat-shit loco and expect to remain in power.
PS - Do you drink or smoke cigarettes? Would that be a big deal if you said it on the internet? I don't do things according to whether they are legal, I do them according to whether I believe they are right or not. Luckily most of my beliefs line up with the law, but not all of them.
12/03/09
ALL people watching on cameras versus the government watching is even less effective for what you're talking about. No one gives a damn if some housewife in Kentucky is watching him spray paint an overpass in L.A.
YouTube may be the be-all-end-all for some people, but most people don't give a shit about it, including me.
The government CAN and DOES go bat-shit-loco on a regular basis, and gets away with it every single time. Open your eyes.
Laughing at shark finning? That's intelligent. Try educating yourself on the subject first. No sharks, no humans. Think about it.
Plenty of water in Hawaii? Is that so.... well I lived on Maui for 6 years and just moved back to California, and I can tell you, there ain't "plenty of water" there. The aquifer is reaching the point of no return, they're in constant conservation mode, and the monthly water bill is over $600 for a normal household in south Maui. Get a clue.
And this: "I don't do things according to whether they are legal, I do them according to whether I believe they are right or not."
That has been the manifesto of every nut job, dictator, serial killer, cult leader & criminal there ever was.
No, I will not spend time watching your feel-good hippie videos. I already know where they are gonna go, and I have other things to do. If you want to believe that trillions of dust particle cameras floating around broadcasting to YouTube 24/7 is going to make the world all sit in a giant circle, hold hands & sing Kumbayah then you go right ahead.
I'm staying off the mushrooms and in the real world. And the real world is a cold, shitty, violent, brutal, unforgiving place where the strong survive and the weak get eaten.
12/03/09
You take my statements about the future, and then put them in the context of today, and then you take my statements about today, and counter them with blatant misinformation. Yet you refuse to actually check even one of my sources. Does that sound like mature debate?
It's not going to be people watching YouTube for graffiti artists. That is idiotic. It's people not doing crime because they know there is a camera out there which can be accessed later, not necessarily in real time. People don't get politicians in trouble by watching them in real time, they get them in trouble by looking at the videos after the fact.
Furthermore those are not hippy videos. Hans Rosling is a widely respected and very intelligent statistician, and you only demonstrate your own biases and stubbornness by saying you refuse to watch something which is quite informative. It's from TED talks for fucks sake.
It is not shark finning which is going to wipe out sharks, its our overfishing and other methods of ruining the oceans. I'm sorry but you really just don't have up to date or accurate information on any of these topics.
I'll grant you that there are places which have limited water resources, but in many cases there are very feasible methods of providing that water, they are simply prevented by lack of economic benefit for the moment. A person would make a lot of money building a desalination plant and then selling that water to the Hawaiians. Regarding water shortages elsewhere, it is mostly a problem of filtration, not a problem of lack of water. Certainly there are droughts in some places, but those places are over-populated and there is no realistic way we can get them water so eventually there won't be anyone there.
That harsh and evolutionary enough for you?
My statement about the law is actually the general attitude of most humans on this planet. Every single person in the US has in all likelihood broken a law knowingly a few times in their lives, most likely while driving which is the worst place to do it.
I don't get your mushroom reference, but if you are talking about psychedelics, they are not my thing. My ideas are borne from research and collection, many of these are not my ideas but the ideas of very intelligent people who are experts in their various fields.
But clearly you are so afraid of losing privacy you just stick with what you know and refuse to expose yourself to any new information for fear that you might be wrong.
Grow up and watch the videos, you will be pleasantly (or not) surprised.
12/02/09
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I have a friend who is a cop, he said if you call 911 right now (on a non-gps enabled phone) they can tell the location of the cell tower your call is being relayed from and some basic info about the carrier but that's about it, so you have to be sure to tell the operator where exactly where you are to get the help you may need.
Has this changed with newer technology?
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No but no phones have been sold without A-GPS since around 2002.
12/02/09
This, of course, depends on the cooperation of your cell carrier...
12/02/09
So when you call 911, they can find you.
@Duct tape is the like: Sprint isn't being a dick (nor the "jerk-off" working for Mitnik's carrier)--they are REQUIRED BY LAW to do this stuff. Try digging up a copy of something called CALEA. Requires carriers to implement capabilities for intercepts and provide capacity to law enforcement.
12/02/09
@spafles I agree to an extent, if your running from the cops and they have the cooperation of the cell phone carrier they could use tower switching, triangulation to track you. But what if you are not moving? Your sitting at work with your non-gps phone in your pocket right now, can they see that? And why would they care?
My point is, while it may seem that big brother is watching you, the odds of your local police department keeping tabs on you is extremely low even if they had the ability to do so easily the time and manpower to track so many common citizens would be immense.
12/02/09
Why is the burden of proof on me? Show me the evidence that the chips AREN'T in there.
A-GPS has been integrated into practically every Qualcomm chip made for almost 10 years. Not only does it enable the device to meet CALEA requirements for E911 location, it also enables more advanced RF beam shaping to improve signal quality.
12/02/09
Once the location was "locked" they usually stopped updating it unless it was something that required a moving location. I didn't ask but I suspect either they have to pay additional fees for continually tracking a cell phone on 911 or there were some legal issues (i.e. maybe they can get the location at the beginning of the call but they can't "track" it).
It was interesting, though, if only for the fact that 90% of people call 911 for no god damn good reason.
12/02/09
@reynwrap582: See now that is interesting. When somebody called they were able to initialize the service to assist, how about if the cops initialize it themselves? I imagine that with a warrant they can have all the real-time tracking they want.
So by reading my replies I gather that the answer to my question is yes, nowadays a non-GPS enabled phone can track you. But to do so takes initialization by you (by calling for help) or they have to already have a reason to order a tracking on you. Whereas having a GPS enabled phone updates so often with the carrier that the information can be given to the authorities with minimal effort or oversight.
12/02/09
[web.archive.org]
12/02/09
"The FCC ruling also allows companies to ease into compliance, giving them until 2005 to make all cell phones GPS-equipped."
[www.alternet.org]
12/02/09
See the provided links below.
This is why ALL phones, even the free flip ones, have a menu option to enable or disable network location. That is except for the few where the manufacturer/carrier doesn't give you the option, but regardless all mobile phones in the US sold in the last 5 years have been GPS equipped, and the majority of them a good amount of time before that (I have a cheap samsung flip from 2002 with it).
12/02/09
So basically any provider can track any phone on their network within 300 feet, I understand the reasoning to pass such a law but I am surprised and dismayed that it is in EVERY frigging phone!
12/02/09
Yea I work for Sprint in our device development group so I knew it was in there but it was sort of like...how do I show it's in there without pointing to a spec page which would obviously be advertising the feature :-P
I know the two main reasons are: 1)the FCC REALLY wanted it for E911 as they want the cell system to be able to have all the same capabilities as the wired phone system and 2) so the cell sectors could more adequately shape their power and signal relative to where the devices actually are.
12/02/09
Anyone know of any good no contract pay as you go phones.
12/02/09
t-mo, $100 for 1,000 minutes that stick around for 1 year. great for communication, not great for conversation.
12/02/09
My iPhone ain't looking so good to me right now.
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Think about how many people use there iPhones to search things. That is a lot of info collected and purged through.
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This is DHS stuff - don't you imagine them testing it at some abandoned military base of something?
02/10/09
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02/10/09
The tentacles wrap around the axle of the car and other parts in the under carriage, so the wheels can't rotate
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