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Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
10/14/09
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10/14/09
Don't put illegal crap on or in anything you hand over as collateral.
Really it's that simple.
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[en.wikipedia.org]
10/14/09
A+ for you good sir. Enjoy defending pedophiles.
10/14/09
That even they receive protection from the law should provide you comfort in the knowledge that you too are guaranteed those protections.
Moreover, keeping the government honest and on their best behavior is what my mother devoted her life to. The government has the burden to prove the defendant's guilt and to do so within the confines of the law.
By defending those charged with crimes - even horrible crimes - a defense attorney seeks to ensure that those tasked with enforcing the law follow the law. When, and only when, a defendant's guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt within those bounds, we as a society can be reasonably certain that justice has been done, that the guilty will be punished, and that the dangerous elements of our society neutralized.
There is no moral nor practical benefit to taking short cuts with the law. It creates skepticism in the public, mistrust of the law, and fosters sloppiness in those who enforce and prosecute the people's interest. And when this happens, the innocent may be jailed while the guilty walk free.
By making the government meet its burden - especially when heinous crimes are involved - we can assure ourselves that our imperfect system is still the best of all those available.
The defense attorneys watch the watchers.
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1) Don't look at child pornography
2) Don't download child pornography
3) Don't keep your child pornography unlocked or unencrypted
4) Don't carry your child pornography around on your cellphone
5) Don't leave the cellphone that has your child pornography laying around
6) Don't let other people look at your cellphone long enough to find your child pornography
7) Don't go back to retrieve the cellphone that has your child pornography
And lastly,
8) Don't privately retain your own lawyer to defend you on the child pornography charges. You're dead to rites. The court-appointed lawyer can plea bargain just as well as anyone else.
Because you ARE going to plead guilty.
10/14/09
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10/14/09
Thanks Ponies!
10/14/09
Let's take a hypothetical - you break into my house. You find that I have a large amount of widget. Widget is illegal. You turn me in to the police, saying that you found widget in my house. The police, acting on the tip, get a warrant to search my house for widget. They find it and arrest me.
Is the warrant valid given that the probable cause stemmed from a burglary? Can the widget be introduced as evidence against me?
Yes. You weren't acting as an agent or at the behest of the police. You were acting in your own (albeit illegal) capacity.
The warrant was validly obtained although the evidence was initially discovered through criminality.
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10/14/09
but in my example, i was saying that i was invited as i am a highly sought after dinner guest. as an invitee, there's nothing illegal about me checking out their linen closet, right? it might be poor etiquette, but not illegal. much like the bartender. it might be poor etiquette for him to snoop on the guy's phone, but it's not illegal.
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First rule of staying out of jail: Don't do crime.
And if you can't do that, don't do stupid crime.
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10/14/09
however, i would have thought the bartender was well within his rights to look at that phone seeing as how it was given to him as collateral. i would think that's akin to someone letting me borrow their phone and me finding something on there that i shouldn't have.
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10/14/09
"Don't do anything illegal. If you feel you absolutely must do something illegal, think a little bit about it before you act on the thought because you do have the choice to just not do it. If you make the risky choice to do something illegal, consider very seriously not doing that thing ever again, because you'll only be making life harder for yourself otherwise. Once you've done it, don't let anyone know about it. Don't speak about it, write about it, take a picture of it or mention it in any phone call. Don't keep any evidence of what you did. If you do keep anything of it, don't leave it laying around your house or on your person or in your car, and seriously consider getting rid of it, because you'll only be making life harder for yourself, otherwise."
"So that's it?", I asked. "That's just common sense."
... and this is the part that I found most enlightening. He said:
"Yes, it's common sense, but it's amazing how many people do illegal things, then do them again and again, and then forget that at some point they're going to need to call a plumber or an appliance repairman or the fire department or meet a friend at a club with a metal detector or lose their wallet or get a hole in their pocket or be pulled over for speeding or having a busted taillight and suddenly they're in much bigger trouble than they ever wanted. Doing all that illegal stuff just gives you baggage that regular old life occurrences inevitably reveal to authorities or people that are bound to report them to authorities. Following the law makes things so much easier, and not following the law creates a baggage-management problem that makes life a lot harder."
10/14/09
10/14/09
I might be wrong on the burglary thing. You might have to cross the threshold with the intent to commit a felony, not a misdemeanor.
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How unlucky this guy was that cell phones didn't exist 1,000 years ago where he would have been given a hi-five by the bartender for all those kiddie porn.
One day you’re a sexual deviant and the next you’re a hero.
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10/14/09
Homosexuality was practiced long ago and was perfectly legal. Then it was not, and now it is. Pedophilia use to be legal and now it’s not. I’m just wondering when it will swing back into legal again? What about bestiality and necrophilia? When will they have their turn in the spotlight?
What a strange world we live in.
10/14/09
And why isn't bestiality spelled beAstiality? It's sex with beasts.
10/14/09
I can see now that your point is in no way convoluted and that the problem here is really me, and not in any way you.
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10/14/09
[I hate to do this but this thread, no, the internet is full of people who just.don't.get.it. "It" being humor. I, the poster, in no way resemble my remark nor do I condone bestiality. The comment was simply made out of jest, a pun of word usage. Please do not confuse me with someone who enjoys the thought or action of carnal activities involving any manner of animal.]
10/14/09
10/14/09
Now you’re starting to get it!
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Maybe.
10/14/09
If the kiddie porn was set as the wallpaper, thats one thing. But the bartender was looking for a phone number.
Pictures and phone numbers aren't kept in the same places on phones. If the kiddie porn was in a photos folder, then the case may have to be thrown out because the bartender did not have a valid reason to snoop through the phone.
Shame for a pervert to get off on a technicality, but, there is a right to privacy written into the constitution.
Now, whether or not he gave up his expectation of privacy when he left his phone for collateral is for the courts to decide.
But, I have a feeling the pictures were found through an invasion of privacy, therefor can not be used in a court as evidence.
10/14/09
3L Law Student Here -
It doesn't matter how the pics were found. Because it was the bartender and not the police looking through the phone, and it was the bartender who alerted the police, there is no reason to exclude the evidence in court. Exclusionary rules only apply to the police, not to third parties.
For example, the police cannot go into your house without a warrant, even if they suspect that you have kiddie porn there. But if your neighbor is housesitting for you and discovers it, he can call the police and everything is admissible.
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Thats what I wanted to know.
Thanks.
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Also, not a lawyer, but not sure how they skirt entrapment.
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[www.nytimes.com]
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[en.wikipedia.org]
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