I think I'm gonna start a campaign to get Rosa to appear on the left hand column of Giz with the rest of the editors. Anyone with me? #openairlibrarybykaro
@dambo29: I'm really not sure why she isn't there. I thought she was introduced as an intern a while back for LH, but she's not on the side panel there either. #openairlibrarybykaro
Seems like a solid tribute to four of the things Germans can be most proud of: their beer, their engineering, their gorgeous country, and their reputation for literary greatness. #openairlibrarybykaro
As el diablo's advocate... don't artist (writers) deserve to be paid? don't distributors that provide a service to writers publishing and advertising their books also deserve to get paid?
@Killjoy: Libraries pay for the books they lend. Often their copies are at a higher price than what we get in the book store to compensate for the lost sales.
If they hadn't spent money building this system of artificially limited supply, I wonder if they could have made the book prices lower so that more people would just buy their own licenses. Licensors still should be paid, but if you don't have to pay the printer and paper mill anything, and your shipping costs drop down to zero, it seems like an eBook should be far cheaper than a paperback.
It's not like there are cheap or free eReaders floating out there, such that the poor uneducated masses who are typically the intended beneficiaries of libraries can use them to access this. The government seems to be spending money on a ridiculously indirect system to provide free reading material to a group of people who obviously have plenty of disposable income. That seems like a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.
@Lodril: Most people don't read on dedicated devices. They read on computers or their phones. Many people who can't afford a reader have those. The books at the library are Adobe Digital Editions or Mobipocket both of which can be read on most computers and some phones.
@Lodril: Sony didn't create the artificial scarcity. Neither did the libraries. Publishers, who own the rights to the published materials, established agreements with ebook vendors--of which Overdrive is one, but not the only one--so that they could make ebooks available for libraries to purchase and 'lend'. Sony's just putting that system into action on a dedicated reader platform (it's about time someone did). You still need a library card from a participating library to use that function.
Every time this comes up somewhere on the internet, some genius rants about wasted taxpayer dollars. No federal dollars are in use here; this is strictly local libraries deciding or not deciding to spend part of their locally levied materials budget on virtual materials. For that matter, you don't need a dedicated reader to use the ebooks; indeed, most library users who bother with them read them on their computers.
The artificial scarcity question (and its conjoined twin, the DRM question) is, to say the least, frustrating to librarians. Many skirt the issue by not offering ebooks. But that is the only alternative. You either offer artificially-scarce, DRM-protected ebooks--for which you usually pay slightly less than the cost of an actual book--or you offer no ebooks that are currently in copyright and available on a large scale to lending institutions.
So let me see if I got this straight. After thousands of years of being limited by physical means, humanity found a cheap way to duplicate ideas at virtually no cost. And the most innocent archives of human ideas, the library, has to enforce a limit on the number of people that can read these ideas at a time?
Fucking hell, man. Fucking hell. I seriously cannot believe this shit.
@OCEntertainment:
The books still cost money, just like the physical ones. Would you suggest that we just distribute other people's work for free? Writers need to get paid too ya know.
The library doesn't necessarily enforce a limit, they are limited by the number of copies they have purchased, no different than a physical book.
@justinpe: Please, leave your "Writers need to get paid, therefore any method is justified" crap at the door. The ratio is not, nor has it ever had to be 1:1, especially with libraries. Libraries buy books. They then rent those books out for free to anybody who wants them. Why, exactly, does this need to be limited to a certain number of people at a time? Oh, I see, because then libraries would only buy one copy, and give them to everybody. ZOMG!!!
Big fucking deal. This is why libraries exist. They're big gaping open doors. You can't argue that libraries are a threat to "writers getting paid" without closing libraries.
And in any case, there's better ways of handling it. Charge them a rental license, or whatever. But when you're dealing with a damn library, they don't exist for profit, they exist for charity. The openness of information. This artificial limit on nearly infinite information is sick.
Just because you can equate it to something you already know doesn't mean you're not missing what it could be.
If I'm shocked because the library is being forced to treat a digital copy just the same as a physical book, it's because it's NOT A FUCKING PHYSICAL BOOK.
@OCEntertainment: Do you even have any fucking clue what you're saying? Are you seriously that stupid? You're saying that a library should get a book that's currently in stores, on sale, and should then proceed to give away thousands of virtual copies for free to anybody? Basically destroying any market that book might have had in the first place? That's so retarded I can't even imagine how you posted that shit in the first place.
A library holds a certain number of bestselling, current books. And that's it. Fucking DEAL with it. And if you don't like it, there are thousands of years worth of life-changing books which are out of print. Once digital libraries are up and running, you can probably get an infinite number of copies of Cicero's collected orations if you want.
@Pope John Peeps II: You're part of the reason folks get away with as much as they do. Your argument is FUD, plain and simple. The idea that a library could *destroy* a market is absurd.
For starters, stores *sell* books. Libraries require you to return them. Sure, the market *might* lose some money from the people who went to the library to get a copy for free, saw they didn't have any available, and went and bought, knowing they might not want to keep it....yeah, I'll give you that.
But libraries and bookstores appeal to two different markets. Libraries appeal to either people who can't afford what they want to read, or people who likely wouldn't have bought the book anyways. Keep in mind, the concept is in place already. You're arguing against the existence of libraries, when we're talking quantity. Instead of 5 people getting a book, and 20 people being on a waiting list, 25 people get the book. 10,000 still go out and buy the book when it's released.
The loss is marginal at best. You make it sound like the entire world economy hinges on the limited stock of library books.
I'd say you, sir, are the one who doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.
A book is a book. You're suggesting that the information contained in a book is somehow less valuable in a digital form. I disagree. Libraries also have music, movies and other media. Should they also be able to make an infinite number of digital copies of every album they have and let an unlimited number of people download for free?
I think this kind of system could work if we had something like the Public Lending Right scheme they have in the UK. Authors get a small cut for every one of their books lent. We'd likely have to pay a much higher tax to support our library systems and I would like to see authors get a higher rate than they get from PLR since this sort of system would most definitely cannibalize book sales. The PLR rate in the UK is just pennies per book. After all, if the library has unlimited copies, why would you buy the book? You could just download it again if you wanted to reread it.
I think this is a brilliant solution. Libraries are a great way to read a ton of books on the cheap, and moving to the electronic space is a great move. My thought is that most people with an e-book want to have a "library" with them at all times, and this is a great way to do it.
Yep. You can convert the Mobipocket ones to be read with the DRM in tact with a script called Kindlefix. You can also remove the DRM off either ADE or Mobipocket books and read them that way but that isn't necessarily legal and does violate the ToS with the library.
Personally, I would like folks to please respect their libraries even if you decide to convert these books for your personal use. Authors get paid from book sales and rarely anything else.
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It kinda resembles a cross between the CCTV building in China and a tiki bar at the Jersey Shore. #openairlibrarybykaro
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08/25/09
08/25/09
08/25/09
08/26/09
08/25/09
It's not like there are cheap or free eReaders floating out there, such that the poor uneducated masses who are typically the intended beneficiaries of libraries can use them to access this. The government seems to be spending money on a ridiculously indirect system to provide free reading material to a group of people who obviously have plenty of disposable income. That seems like a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.
08/25/09
08/25/09
Every time this comes up somewhere on the internet, some genius rants about wasted taxpayer dollars. No federal dollars are in use here; this is strictly local libraries deciding or not deciding to spend part of their locally levied materials budget on virtual materials. For that matter, you don't need a dedicated reader to use the ebooks; indeed, most library users who bother with them read them on their computers.
The artificial scarcity question (and its conjoined twin, the DRM question) is, to say the least, frustrating to librarians. Many skirt the issue by not offering ebooks. But that is the only alternative. You either offer artificially-scarce, DRM-protected ebooks--for which you usually pay slightly less than the cost of an actual book--or you offer no ebooks that are currently in copyright and available on a large scale to lending institutions.
08/26/09
I pay local taxes (a lot of them), so if my county libraries do this, then it's still my tax dollars at work. :)
08/25/09
Fucking hell, man. Fucking hell. I seriously cannot believe this shit.
08/25/09
The books still cost money, just like the physical ones. Would you suggest that we just distribute other people's work for free? Writers need to get paid too ya know.
The library doesn't necessarily enforce a limit, they are limited by the number of copies they have purchased, no different than a physical book.
How is this so unbelievable to you?
08/25/09
Big fucking deal. This is why libraries exist. They're big gaping open doors. You can't argue that libraries are a threat to "writers getting paid" without closing libraries.
And in any case, there's better ways of handling it. Charge them a rental license, or whatever. But when you're dealing with a damn library, they don't exist for profit, they exist for charity. The openness of information. This artificial limit on nearly infinite information is sick.
Just because you can equate it to something you already know doesn't mean you're not missing what it could be.
If I'm shocked because the library is being forced to treat a digital copy just the same as a physical book, it's because it's NOT A FUCKING PHYSICAL BOOK.
08/25/09
A library holds a certain number of bestselling, current books. And that's it. Fucking DEAL with it. And if you don't like it, there are thousands of years worth of life-changing books which are out of print. Once digital libraries are up and running, you can probably get an infinite number of copies of Cicero's collected orations if you want.
08/25/09
For starters, stores *sell* books. Libraries require you to return them. Sure, the market *might* lose some money from the people who went to the library to get a copy for free, saw they didn't have any available, and went and bought, knowing they might not want to keep it....yeah, I'll give you that.
But libraries and bookstores appeal to two different markets. Libraries appeal to either people who can't afford what they want to read, or people who likely wouldn't have bought the book anyways. Keep in mind, the concept is in place already. You're arguing against the existence of libraries, when we're talking quantity. Instead of 5 people getting a book, and 20 people being on a waiting list, 25 people get the book. 10,000 still go out and buy the book when it's released.
The loss is marginal at best. You make it sound like the entire world economy hinges on the limited stock of library books.
I'd say you, sir, are the one who doesn't have a clue what they're talking about.
08/25/09
A book is a book. You're suggesting that the information contained in a book is somehow less valuable in a digital form. I disagree. Libraries also have music, movies and other media. Should they also be able to make an infinite number of digital copies of every album they have and let an unlimited number of people download for free?
You sir, are unbelievable.
08/25/09
I think this kind of system could work if we had something like the Public Lending Right scheme they have in the UK. Authors get a small cut for every one of their books lent. We'd likely have to pay a much higher tax to support our library systems and I would like to see authors get a higher rate than they get from PLR since this sort of system would most definitely cannibalize book sales. The PLR rate in the UK is just pennies per book. After all, if the library has unlimited copies, why would you buy the book? You could just download it again if you wanted to reread it.
08/25/09
08/25/09
Can you "return" books if you're done with them?
08/25/09
And yes, it's possible to return them. Nice little "return this title" in Adobe Digital Editions.
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08/25/09
Yep. You can convert the Mobipocket ones to be read with the DRM in tact with a script called Kindlefix. You can also remove the DRM off either ADE or Mobipocket books and read them that way but that isn't necessarily legal and does violate the ToS with the library.
Personally, I would like folks to please respect their libraries even if you decide to convert these books for your personal use. Authors get paid from book sales and rarely anything else.