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New York, 8:52 PM
Fri Dec 18
72 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of docvb docvb
    12/08/09

    In reply to How Quantum Dots Could Make LEDs as Warm as Candlelight
    The problem with LEDs is not just color (monochromatic hues) but also the 60hz flicker that you notice from the corner of your eye.

    Also, as christmas lights, the snow buries them and they won't melt themselves free like the incandescent ones will :(
     Reply
    docvb was starred docvb was unstarred
    Image of Worf Worf
    12/08/09

    @docvb: Cheap LED lights have flicker, like christmas lights.

    Better ones have full-wave bridge rectifiers that cause it to flicker at 120hz.

    Better ones still put a capacitor so they don't go "off" so often, and hardly flicker.
     Reply
    fuchikoma promoted this comment Worf was starred Worf was unstarred
    Image of Purple Dave Purple Dave
    12/08/09

    In reply to How Quantum Dots Could Make LEDs as Warm as Candlelight
    If they can make a black-light LED, why can't they just make LEDs that emit wavelengths for a wider range of colors?
     Reply
    Purple Dave was starred Purple Dave was unstarred
    Image of fuchikoma fuchikoma
    12/08/09

    @Purple Dave: The funny thing is that they use those LEDs to make a wider range of colors. The quantum dot based designs still depend on a blue or UV LED to excite the quantum dot phosphors, but they can make them in all sorts of colors.

    All of the true LEDs I've seen emit a very specific wavelength though, so even the mixed white lights are made of a certain red, a certain green, and a certain blue. Hopefully we can have a less homogenous mix of quantum dots that will shine various colors at once.

    At best though, maybe we'll end up with a low energy lighting technology that doesn't leak UV light...
     Reply
    fuchikoma was starred fuchikoma was unstarred
    Image of Purple Dave Purple Dave
    12/08/09

    @fuchikoma:
    That doesn't leak UV light? Don't you mean IR? That's what incandescent, halogen, and even (to a lesser extent) flourescent lights produce as a waste product. The only LEDs that I've seen that produce UV light do it with purpose. See, at Brickworld, Brickarms packed a bunch of tri-LED flashlights in with a pack of transparent weapons to be handed out in the registration kits. There was one red LED that was hooked up to a signal button (only on when the button was held down), and there were two other LEDs that were hooked up to a 3-way button. Push it once and a plain white LED turns on. Push it a second time, and the white LED turns off while the third LED turns on and puts out what appears, at first, to be in the blue/violet spectrum. However, if you point it at certain LEGO parts, you realize that it's actually a black-light LED, as it makes those parts glow really bright. So, really, it's just leaking into the visible spectrum.
     Reply
    Purple Dave was starred Purple Dave was unstarred
    Image of fuchikoma fuchikoma
    12/08/09

    @Purple Dave: Actually, mercury vapor fluorescents, and some white LEDs use UV light to excite the phosphors, though blue to yellow is the more efficient way of making a white LED. It doesn't make sense to use IR to drive a fluorescent effect as the energy is of a much longer wavelength, and will deliver less energy.
     Reply
    fuchikoma was starred fuchikoma was unstarred
    Image of Purple Dave Purple Dave
    12/09/09

    @fuchikoma:
    I said the IR was a waste product, not the intended result. Even flourescent light tubes get pretty warm to the touch, but the desired output is UV light because that makes the powder coating the inside of the tube glow with visible light.

    I have also never heard of an LED that emits UV light with the purpose of flourescing a different material to produce visible light. I'd think that, given the small size of a typical LED, the light produced in this manner would be barely noticable.
     Reply
    Purple Dave was starred Purple Dave was unstarred
    Image of fuchikoma fuchikoma
    12/09/09

    @Purple Dave: You asked if I meant IR when I mentioned lights leaking UV light. I'm not really concerned with IR as a waste product, but UV is a big problem for some people, and not the healthiest thing to be constantly exposed to...

    [www.olympusmicro.com]

    I have only read about UV-to-white LEDs. Wikipedia offers this about them:

    White LEDs can also be made by coating near ultraviolet (NUV) emitting LEDs with a mixture of high efficiency europium-based red and blue emitting phosphors plus green emitting copper and aluminium doped zinc sulfide (ZnS:Cu, Al). This is a method analogous to the way fluorescent lamps work. This method is less efficient than the blue LED with YAG:Ce phosphor, as the Stokes shift is larger and more energy is therefore converted to heat, but yields light with better spectral characteristics, which render color better. Due to the higher radiative output of the ultraviolet LEDs than of the blue ones, both approaches offer comparable brightness. Another concern is that UV light may leak from a malfunctioning light source and cause harm to human eyes or skin.

    I am disappointed that energy efficient lighting and UV leakage seem to go hand in hand a lot of times, but I'd imagine it will improve in the next several years.
     Reply
    fuchikoma was starred fuchikoma was unstarred
    Image of Jakooboo the Whedonite Jakooboo the Whedonite
    12/07/09

    In reply to How Quantum Dots Could Make LEDs as Warm as Candlelight
    "Scotty! I need more Quantum Dots on the double!"

    "I can't do that Captain, I'm giving her all she's got!"
     Reply
    Segador promoted this comment Jakooboo the Whedonite was starred Jakooboo the Whedonite was unstarred
    Image of Segador Segador
    12/07/09

    @Jakooboo the Whedonite: More Dots! Now!
     Reply
    Segador was starred Segador was unstarred
    Image of carbonfilament carbonfilament
    12/01/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    I work in the lighting design industry and can't agree with you more. Earlier this year I made a chandelier out of carbon filament lamps for my kitchen table, and control it with an auto-transformer, for the exact reasons you cite.

    I do believe in LEDs though, but I'd rather see a more complete shift.

    In theater and industrial events we use RGB LED fixtures to mix color and create (almost) whatever we want. For the home though I'd love to see LEDs that mix color temperature (these exist in architecture, but are less prevalent). Imagine if every lamp had a warm circuit and a cool circuit, and one could control this relationship through a two channel dimmer on the wall. This would be ideal - Crisp bright white for daytime use, or technical work, warm comforting light for living. With the right circuitry you could even piggy back the control signal on the AC line so that you wouldn't have to re-wire your house. How cool is that?

    Right now I accomplish this at home through a combination of many light sources and lots of switches (I AM a lighting designer - and a geeky one at that) but it would be nice to have a more elegant solution to the problem.
     Reply
    whiteflea promoted this comment carbonfilament was starred carbonfilament was unstarred
    Image of wkm001 wkm001
    12/01/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    I couldn't even make it half way through this article. Not well written for techie crowd. Get to the point.
     Reply
    whiteflea promoted this comment wkm001 was starred wkm001 was unstarred
    Image of whiteflea whiteflea
    12/01/09

    @wkm001: I disagree. I was reading it and thinking "man, Brian Lam is a pretty damn good writer." Being a techie doesn't make you incapable of appreciating the English language.
     Reply
    whiteflea was starred whiteflea was unstarred
    Image of Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level. Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level.
    12/01/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    Awesome article, in my house i refuse to changed the incandescent bulb in my room. The rest of the house is lit by the fluorescent twirl ones. I haven't taken the plunge for LED light bulbs yet. Hopefully the industry listens, i don't want to get home and feel as if i'm still at work. Yellowish warm light is where it's at.
     Reply
    Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level. was starred Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level. was unstarred
    Image of TheCrudMan TheCrudMan
    12/01/09

    @Flying Jukebox:
    You know they sell the swirly CFLs in incandescent color temperatures? I am in a room lit by one right now.
     Reply
    TheCrudMan was starred TheCrudMan was unstarred
    Image of Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level. Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level.
    12/01/09

    @TheCrudMan: hmm...thanks for the tip. Will shop around for those.
     Reply
    Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level. was starred Flying Jukebox: There is no cow level. was unstarred
    Image of TheCrudMan TheCrudMan
    12/01/09

    @Flying Jukebox:
    They name them tricky things...best bet is to buy a few until you find the right one and then write it down and keep the packaging...I think they usually call them "soft white" sort of a misnomer...
     Reply
    Ryan_Long promoted this comment TheCrudMan was starred TheCrudMan was unstarred
    Image of Ryan_Long Ryan_Long
    12/02/09

    @TheCrudMan:
    Warm white fluorescents have a lower kelvin rating than their cooler counterparts.
     Reply
    Ryan_Long was starred Ryan_Long was unstarred
    Image of TheCrudMan TheCrudMan
    12/02/09

    @Ryan_Long:
    Very true...do they write the kelvins on the box? Technically orange is much cooler than blue so the rating is lower..
     Reply
    TheCrudMan was starred TheCrudMan was unstarred
    Image of Ryan_Long Ryan_Long
    12/02/09

    @TheCrudMan: With most residential lamps, they'll just specify warm white or cool white.
    Commercial grade and dedicated ballast lamps will give a color of 2700k, 3000k, 3500k, 4100k, 5000k, or daylight (6000k)- note day light is NOT warm. People always think that 'daylight' is like the sun which is yellow- not the case. Daylight is almost a bluish hue.
    If you're at a place like costco or walmart, be sure to read the box carefully for a color spec.
     Reply
    Edited by Ryan_Long at 12/02/09 8:37 PM Ryan_Long was starred Ryan_Long was unstarred
    Image of Gary_7vn Gary_7vn
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    I am just glad those goddamn CFL mercury monsters are on their way out. CFL we hardly knew ye. And that is a good thing.

    LED FTW
     Reply
    Gary_7vn was starred Gary_7vn was unstarred
    Image of nachobel nachobel
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    You know, this makes sense. I've noticed that in my own photography, I always tend to the warmer tones, even if the end result looks nothing like the original picture - it just looks more "natural", more correct.

    What is it about our own perceptions that refuses to acknowledge a blue world? We want to live and love in that yellowish world! Our own yellow (but not really :D) sun?
     Reply
    HurtsSoGood promoted this comment nachobel was starred nachobel was unstarred
    Image of HurtsSoGood HurtsSoGood
    11/30/09

    @nachobel: Eventually, your lighting fixtures will have the capability of adjusting such things as "warmth" depending upon how they're being used at the moment. Need lots of light for sewing? Dial up the blue. Need to get busy with your SO? Dial it down to yellow/orange. If you can do it with your TV, you ought to be able to do it with a lamp based on similar technology.
     Reply
    HurtsSoGood was starred HurtsSoGood was unstarred
    Image of Jedo10 Jedo10
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    Another interesting look at the implementation of LED lighting is in Concert and Theatrical lighting. I work in the industry and LED is at the forefront of its technological advancement. This industry is 100% about the look and feelings associated with the lighting. Right now LED are being used more as scenic pieces and filler lighting. This is because they just can't match the intensity or color temperature of a 1kW Xeon bulb. They can not match the emotion or story that is conveyed by conventional lighting's warmth. But they have been making leaps and bounds to making them more and more viable. It is with out a question that they will take over as the only light in use. Current lights are so hot they easily warm rooms up to uncomfortable levels, which is why concert halls have the air conditioning on so high. Also a typical lighting rig uses obscene amounts of energy. I think I will be a lamentable day when Theatre move to LED. It will mark a day when Theatre will never feel the same. Really passion. Real emotion. Real loss.

    #Speakout
     Reply
    Brian Lam promoted this comment Jedo10 was starred Jedo10 was unstarred
    Image of phoxdk phoxdk
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    We don't even have a choice in the EU, the old bulb has been outlawed, there's only CFL, LED and Halogen left.
    Anyway I agree the old bulb is much better light for most occations, CFL has come close the last couple of years tho.
     Reply
    chauncy that billups promoted this comment phoxdk was starred phoxdk was unstarred
    Image of chauncy that billups chauncy that billups
    11/30/09

    @phoxdk: yeah-though your house doesn't become a superfund site when you break a normal incandescent.
     Reply
    chauncy that billups was starred chauncy that billups was unstarred
    Image of HurtsSoGood HurtsSoGood
    11/30/09

    @chauncy that billups: Get real. There's more mercury in your stool than there is in a typical swirly bulb.
     Reply
    HurtsSoGood was starred HurtsSoGood was unstarred
    Image of chauncy that billups chauncy that billups
    12/01/09

    @HurtsSoGood: Tell that to the people who made it illegal to dispose of CFLS in your normal garbage can.
     Reply
    chauncy that billups was starred chauncy that billups was unstarred
    Image of HurtsSoGood HurtsSoGood
    12/01/09

    @chauncy that billups: Just sayin', the hysteria over the possibility of a minute amount of mercury vapor being released into the environment from the accidental breakage of one CFL is vastly overblown. You open the windows, then sweep up what you can by hand before vacuuming up the rest of the glass. That ought to be sufficient. People who hire professionals to sweep up CFL debris are suckers.
     Reply
    HurtsSoGood was starred HurtsSoGood was unstarred
    Image of Margatron Margatron
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    Wow Lam, this article is a beautiful piece of prose-news. Your subtitle could be "Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass: An Ode to Tungsten". I love it when you guys romanticize gadgetry. I'll never think of lightbulbs the same way again!
     Reply
    Margatron was starred Margatron was unstarred
    Image of pushlatency pushlatency
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    LEDs for indoor & outdoor lighting are getting pretty closely scrutinized when it comes to color (color temperature), color "reproduction" (color rendering index), lifetime, light output and energy consumption. The concern surrounding the industry is to avoid the disasters that were created by the initial, poor performing batch of compact fluorescent (CFL) products over a decade ago.

    It may necessitate picking up some familiarity with lighting industry lingo, but you might want to look at the rounds of the CALiPER testing program (as run by the US DOE). They buy, test and then tear to shreds the vast majority of LED lightbub replacements the reports that get published. There’s unfortunately a lot of crap on the market.
    [www1.eere.energy.gov]

    The DOE (EnergyStar) maintains lists of LED products which have been tested by independent labs and approved as "pretty decent". Unfortunately no home-use replacement bulbs are on the list at this time, only complete LED packages (fixture + lamp,etc) as one might install during a renovation or construction of a new home. Check out a CREE LR6, your worries will melt away.
    [www.energystar.gov]
     Reply
    Brian Lam promoted this comment pushlatency was starred pushlatency was unstarred
    Image of Ryan_Long Ryan_Long
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    as far as what they are good for?
    Headlights (Audi), street lights (San Francisco just implemented some) and a variety of places where we take light for granted (public restrooms, etc) they work wonders- just not in my living room.
     Reply
    Brian Lam promoted this comment Ryan_Long was starred Ryan_Long was unstarred
    Image of Brian Lam Brian Lam
    11/30/09

    @Ryan_Long: I have an audi with those headlights. they're daylight running lights. they don't do shit at night.
     Reply
    Brian Lam was starred Brian Lam was unstarred
    Image of RainyDayInterns RainyDayInterns
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    We just light stuff on fire around the office whenever we need a little light.

    Now that no one prints emails to read anymore, we are just groping around most of the time. It has led to some uncomfortable lectures around "harassment"...but we are getting off-topic.
     Reply
    RainyDayInterns was starred RainyDayInterns was unstarred
    Image of Ryan_Long Ryan_Long
    11/30/09

    In reply to Hot Electric Metal Encased in a Sphere of Glass
    ok, now's my time to shine.
    I've been in commercial and residential lighting for a few years now. LEDs are really starting to hit the main stream- no longer specialty crap.
    There are problems though- every LED lamp we sell, we know we won't get that business back for a LONG time (lighting noobs- lamp means "bulb", not a fixture)
    Other problems with LED are light output similar to fluorescent, and odd dimming dynamics. Another BIG problem is that most all are low voltage running at 12v- not a problem- but when existing fixtures have transformers meant to power lamps at 35 or 50 watts, many transformers require minimum draws, a number far greater than the pitiful amount the LEDS require. (usually 20w, and LEDs run 3-10w.)
    Other problems with LEDs- they are ugly as can be. The diodes are SO sensitive to heat that if they get even remotely hot, they die- end of story. That's why they have those GIANT heat sinks attached to them. I'm here in San Francisco where it doesn't get too hot, but I can't imagine someone in an Arizona summer trying to run one of these.
    In a market that's directed primarily towards recessed lighting, LEDs are GREAT. you don't see those lamps one way or another, so make them high efficacy and bright. But with that, you also don't get directionality out of the LED lights- so PAR and MR16s will always need to be there. LED MR16s are around, some better than others, but the good ones cost upwards of $70/ea.
    I think the big determining factor for all this new tech is economic. Can you convince the public to drop $20 on an LED A lamp that looks ugly as sin, even though they'll save a LOT of money over its lifespan over a standard A19? Or is the American "immediate gratification" too strong. For commercial, government and architectural stuff, LED is the future. For residential, not so much... yet.

    ps- Osram makes amazing lamps, but they are the BMW of them. You pay a LOT of money for their long lasting halogen stuff. Lots of lamp manufacturers even talk down on their LED stuff to keep you buying the less efficient stuff.
     Reply
    Brian Lam promoted this comment Ryan_Long was starred Ryan_Long was unstarred
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