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Not surprised. I'll put my Sprint fanboy hat on a sec and mention that before I had a data plan my phones simply spat back "You don't has a data plan stoopid!" No charge.
In related news, I know there was some open forum a few months back discussed on PreCentral. The presenter made some jab at cell providers that have the long menus people have to listen to as possibly just there to drive up minutes. The big four simply grinned at him.
@Fractal the Meek: This first point could be the reason that Sprint posted major losses in recent quarterly figures.
At least they are the ethical ones. Except for that whole "long menus eating up minutes" thing... but last I heard some companies were trying to correct that problem. Hopefully. #datacharges
@Fractal the Meek: uh, check your agreement, you'll see that the calls to cell provider customer service are free. That's why they were grinning, the complainer was seriously ill advised. And you fell for it. #datacharges
@nikko1221: The menus you hear when you're leaving someone else a voicemail. Which you pay for. Unless there's a button to skip it or you have free mobile to mobile... #datacharges
@Fractal the Meek: Aaah. In that case, when dialing to a vz number, "*" bypasses the voice announcement and menus and goes straight into recording mode. #datacharges
@nikko1221: You, sir or madam, get a heart click. For years I've listened to my brother's one minute voicemail menu system and it never said what button to skip to the beep and been to lazy to Google it. (It's 1 on Sprint.) #datacharges
@Fractal the Meek: thanks! Addendum: Since VZ's playback menus didn't follow normal VM conventions (for example I would erase messages I wanted to rewind ,"3" being the most used delete command on many huge systems), I put together a VZ VM cheat sheet:
While Listening:
1 -<
4 -slow
5 -date/time
6 -fast
* - Cancel/Exit
0 - Help
#- Finish/Skip
4 -Replay
7 -Delete
9 -Save
0 -Help
After Listening:
1 1 -Rewind to Beginning
3 3 -Fast Forward to End
7 -Delete Message
Just got hit with this just month. My sister has an HTC with no data plan, and the Internet Explorer button was pressed while it was in her pocket. Now we have a $12.57 charge on our bill that AT&T refuses to refund.
My mom tried to block data from her account, which ended up blocking her from receiving picture texts. So now we're stuck with a 12 dollar charge, and a tough decision between allowing this to happen again or blocking a service that we pay for.
Of course I've experienced this. And of course Verizon will do nothing to ever change this, it's money in the bank for them.
The solution is to get a phone without the Carrier designed OS installed. HTC/Apple/RIM/Palm/Google couldn't care less if you incur data charges. So they tend to not create a UI that has you accidentally logging on at least twice a month.
Point is, you want to avoid conflicts of interest. 1. Don't let your cell carrier design your phones UI. 2. Don't let your media provider build your audio/video hardware.
@newgalactic: Your answer is to get a smartphone then, which is going to almost always have unlimited data since thats the whole point of having one.
Its nothing about conflict of interests. I still have a extremely hard time believing that VZW or any other carrier is really part of some grand scheme to place buttons so that people are inadvertently charged for stuff. They are about increasing data usage yes. One of the ways that they can do that is to make getting to it more convenient to get there and I see nothing wrong with that. If a consumer is constantly butt dialing their way through the prompts and warnings I'd probably put my phone in a different pocket. #datacharges
@tande04: Yeah, the "conflicts-of-interest" point isn't as valid in the case where most of the alternatives involve getting an unlimited data plan. But there has to be some Verizon dumb-phones out there with non-carrier created OS's. Sony-Ericsson? Nokia?
And it's not so much a "Grand Scheme", as much as it is an inflated perception of how often people use VCast/VZWeb in comparison to their phone's address book and voicemail.
@newgalactic: Nokia maybe (there are no SE VZW phones) but I'm 95% sure that even the nokia is just a skin with some extra features and still has all of the normal VZW acquirements.
I don't think that VZW things people use those more (address book is a dedicated key after all on most phones) but they do have a vested interest in making it easy for people to use. No one is going to jump through six menus to get to web or get it now. They'd probably forget why they wanted to go there by the time they got there. #datacharges
@tande04: Well, I guess there's your argument. What you call "making it easy" others call failing to take the steps necessary to prevent unintended charges.
I think the phones by default should ask you "You are about to use the web and will be charged standard data rates. Do you wish to continue?" This message should be the default then be able to be turned off. #datacharges
@Rusty Shackleford: I think it is now that you mention it. I've always had web access even when I had a "dumbphone" so I'm not 100% sure. I know that one time when I was trying to show my mom how to use the web on her phone it said "you will incur data/minute charges depending on your rate plan" #datacharges
I have had this problem for over two years and have complained many times to get the $1.99 charge taken off the four phones on my account. (which obviously adds up when two or more of us do it)
Unfortunately now they tell me that they have taken the charge off so many times that they won't do it anymore.
I spoke with a manager and basically they told me that I can block the feature, but that I wouldn't be able to send or receive picture or video messages on the phone!
I told him that was ridiculous and he basically told me that that was all they could do. #datacharges
@ZacherySchiller: It's not ridiculous at all. MMS is sent in a completely different way than SMS, part of which includes internet access. If they blocked the access,m they'd be making your phone no longer web capable and, as such, they would have to block MMS. I'm not typically one to blame the consumer, but it is your fault for choosing to use certain technologies. Most phones allow you to remap the key or block web access in the phone.
Umm something tells me this isn't completely legit.
"Now, you can ask to have this feature blocked. But even then, if you one of those buttons by accident, your phone transmits data; you get a message that you cannot use the service because it's blocked–BUT you just used 0.06 kilobytes of data to get that message, so you are now charged $1.99 again!"
As that's completely not true. I had mine turned off on my VX6800 (back before they required smart phone data packages)
and i would frequently hit the stupid go on the internet button only to have it tell me i cannot connect.
I have never once been charged 1.99 for this. I mean i'm sure the shady practice takes place, for the people not smart enough to turn the service off, but really seems strange that he would be charged when i'm not. #datacharges
@nutbastard: Its just as much (if not more so) of an issue there. Then you're getting your "card" (or however you're doing pre-paid) sapped faster. I think it would be even worse cause you could end up out of minutes when you didn't expect it and just write it off as poor memory and buy another card. #datacharges
@nutbastard: I can get accidentally charged with prepaid phones. I use one. It's just that the phone instantly tells me how much money was wasted. #datacharges
not here, man. i got t-mo prepaid (no cards) on a nokia shitbrick that isn't even capable of MMS. $100 for 1,000 minutes that dont expire for 1 year means i end up paying about $200-$250 a year for service, and never any erroneous charges. #datacharges
I don't change the function of the buttons as it doesn't seem to be an option on my LG, my solution to this is to go to the security menu and to lock the web
Whenever i try to connect to it by these buttons, it says data is now locked and i get billed....NOTHING! #datacharges
@nutbastard: Well, I mean, the article also assumes that all 87 million users will hit it accidentally several times a month. If you ask me, that assumes all of their customers are stupid and that none of them have data plans. #datacharges
@prettyboy1974:
You do know people can change their default passwords on their iPhone, or install proper anti virus software on their PC, or not download and execute software claiming to be a video codec for some smut you want to watch.
Not only Verizon, AT&T as well.
My Q9H has a key with the ATT globe on the upper left.
You hit that and the default brower (Opera opens).
Not needing a WEB plan (still don't have one or need t) for the first few months I paid several $.99 fees for data.
You hit that button and it starts downloading . before you can stop it you downloaded at least several Kb.
So I loaded DOCOMO's "not data" application to KILL the web for good. No data has gone out for 2 years....
I had the same problem with a V3 Razor before, that I had to hack to kill the web too.
I already pay $50 for the web at home I do not need another $30+ Fees to get it on my phone sporadically. #datacharges
11/14/09
My sister got an HTC Fuze for the full keyboard and wifi internet access (wifi is freaking everywhere). #datacharges
11/13/09
In related news, I know there was some open forum a few months back discussed on PreCentral. The presenter made some jab at cell providers that have the long menus people have to listen to as possibly just there to drive up minutes. The big four simply grinned at him.
They do it. We fall for it. #datacharges
11/13/09
At least they are the ethical ones. Except for that whole "long menus eating up minutes" thing... but last I heard some companies were trying to correct that problem. Hopefully. #datacharges
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/14/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/19/09
While Listening:
1 -<
4 -slow
5 -date/time
6 -fast
* - Cancel/Exit
0 - Help
#- Finish/Skip
4 -Replay
7 -Delete
9 -Save
0 -Help
After Listening:
1 1 -Rewind to Beginning
3 3 -Fast Forward to End
7 -Delete Message
11/13/09
My mom tried to block data from her account, which ended up blocking her from receiving picture texts. So now we're stuck with a 12 dollar charge, and a tough decision between allowing this to happen again or blocking a service that we pay for.
11/13/09
The solution is to get a phone without the Carrier designed OS installed. HTC/Apple/RIM/Palm/Google couldn't care less if you incur data charges. So they tend to not create a UI that has you accidentally logging on at least twice a month.
Point is, you want to avoid conflicts of interest. 1. Don't let your cell carrier design your phones UI. 2. Don't let your media provider build your audio/video hardware.
...any others? #datacharges
11/13/09
Its nothing about conflict of interests. I still have a extremely hard time believing that VZW or any other carrier is really part of some grand scheme to place buttons so that people are inadvertently charged for stuff. They are about increasing data usage yes. One of the ways that they can do that is to make getting to it more convenient to get there and I see nothing wrong with that. If a consumer is constantly butt dialing their way through the prompts and warnings I'd probably put my phone in a different pocket. #datacharges
11/13/09
And it's not so much a "Grand Scheme", as much as it is an inflated perception of how often people use VCast/VZWeb in comparison to their phone's address book and voicemail.
11/13/09
I don't think that VZW things people use those more (address book is a dedicated key after all on most phones) but they do have a vested interest in making it easy for people to use. No one is going to jump through six menus to get to web or get it now. They'd probably forget why they wanted to go there by the time they got there. #datacharges
11/13/09
To-mA-to vs. To-Ma-to #datacharges
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
Unfortunately now they tell me that they have taken the charge off so many times that they won't do it anymore.
I spoke with a manager and basically they told me that I can block the feature, but that I wouldn't be able to send or receive picture or video messages on the phone!
I told him that was ridiculous and he basically told me that that was all they could do. #datacharges
11/13/09
[en.wikipedia.org] #datacharges
11/13/09
"Now, you can ask to have this feature blocked. But even then, if you one of those buttons by accident, your phone transmits data; you get a message that you cannot use the service because it's blocked–BUT you just used 0.06 kilobytes of data to get that message, so you are now charged $1.99 again!"
As that's completely not true. I had mine turned off on my VX6800 (back before they required smart phone data packages)
and i would frequently hit the stupid go on the internet button only to have it tell me i cannot connect.
I have never once been charged 1.99 for this. I mean i'm sure the shady practice takes place, for the people not smart enough to turn the service off, but really seems strange that he would be charged when i'm not. #datacharges
11/13/09
11/13/09
And I should read other people's comments too lest I sound like a parrot.
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
not here, man. i got t-mo prepaid (no cards) on a nokia shitbrick that isn't even capable of MMS. $100 for 1,000 minutes that dont expire for 1 year means i end up paying about $200-$250 a year for service, and never any erroneous charges. #datacharges
11/13/09
11/13/09
Whenever i try to connect to it by these buttons, it says data is now locked and i get billed....NOTHING! #datacharges
11/13/09
"This design "flaw" might be netting Verizon $300 million per year."
then the article says:
"That's over $300 million per month"
month? year? #datacharges
11/13/09
11/13/09
Both Pogue's post and consumerists puts it in months...
Which I find even harder to believe. #datacharges
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
You do know people can change their default passwords on their iPhone, or install proper anti virus software on their PC, or not download and execute software claiming to be a video codec for some smut you want to watch.
It's pretty simple, too. #datacharges
11/13/09
My Q9H has a key with the ATT globe on the upper left.
You hit that and the default brower (Opera opens).
Not needing a WEB plan (still don't have one or need t) for the first few months I paid several $.99 fees for data.
You hit that button and it starts downloading . before you can stop it you downloaded at least several Kb.
So I loaded DOCOMO's "not data" application to KILL the web for good. No data has gone out for 2 years....
I had the same problem with a V3 Razor before, that I had to hack to kill the web too.
I already pay $50 for the web at home I do not need another $30+ Fees to get it on my phone sporadically. #datacharges