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09/17/09
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So on Newegg I can buy a 1TB SATA drive for my PS3 for $85 yet you justify paying for an entire console ($250+???) for 250Gb?
Exactly a quarter of the space at 3 times the price? WOW...
09/16/09
I dunno what's funnier, the fact that someone as simple as you has a star or all the MS ass smeared on your face.
09/16/09
09/16/09
First off, if you ever want to get someone intelligent to talk to you, stop posting like a spaz.
Second, I agree that Sony's strategy of accepting bare drives in the PS3 benefits consumers comfortable with handling bare drives.
Remember, however, that most normal people do not handle bare drives ever and find that intimidating. Also remember that these consoles are being sold to kids, not just EECS majors (which, judging from your social skills, I'd say you are).
Microsoft chose to make the hard drives easy to change. This unfortunately forced them to make some unfortunate compromises that resulted in high prices. The drives are sold through retail channels that have a ~50% markup. This is very different than NewEgg which has lower overhead and daily specials. They also probably use one drive and buy an allotment, locking them into a deal for a year or so, rather than just buying what's on sale.
I'm not happy with expensive drives but for M$ to make the hard drive easy to exchange, that is the compromise they struck.
09/16/09
ps3 uses a 2.5 not 3.5. fyi
also many people are intimedated opening/transfering files from their ps3s when they upgrade the hdd. i make money off of these people.
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BTW, if MS wants to sell in the drives in Target, they are likely forced into pricing agreements that make them unable to undercut Target in other stores. So they are likely forced to sell at full retail.
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Why do you think T'r'U is considering having a used games section? There's not much money to be made in new video games from a retailer's perspective. Used is where you get into that 50-60% markup range.
09/16/09
The point is that retail products are often priced far above the cost of manufacture. A t-shirt costs ~20c to make and you pay $15 for it, that's 75X increase right there. Is that all profit for the t-shirt company? No. There are lots of costs associated with selling an item. MS, which is not skilled in retail, probably is very inefficient as well, contributing to higher costs.
Hard drives are commodities and sell at commodity prices. That allows us to get a good idea of how much we are screwed by retail. However, if you knew what the commodity prices were for other items you buy retail, you would realize that MS is only screwing us as much as every other company or, as in the case of t-shirts, far less.
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What does "mom" and her 14 year old have to do with anything? Sony packs their unit with the ability to swap the hard drive, and I don't hear a million moms crying as result of the decision. The reality is that this whole hard drive upgrade issue doesn't even affect the great majority of the 14 and under crowd. They most likely aren't allowed to DL content, so they'll very likely never run short on space. Moot point.
Comparing profits made selling T-shirts versus computer hardware makes absolutely no sense in this context. You simply cannot compare the two, as they are VERY different industries that operate under VERY different parameters/rules/regulations/costs of operation/etc.
I love your assumption that MS is "inefficient". LOL. Priceless.
09/16/09
09/16/09
If microsoft has to create a retail presence in stores like Target, it suffers start-up costs. Retail is also not MS' core competency and therefore needs to recruit talent. This and more breeds inefficiency.
I think Sony made their console appear too intimidating and that hurt sales. You don't hear moms complaining because they simply did not buy the PS3. The Wii sold well because it is so approachable. The 360 is a balance between the two.
I compare t-shirts and xbox hard drives for a reason. Tshirts are a commodity, they are interchangeable and sold for the lowest price. Bare hard drives are the same. Branded t-shirts are not a commodity and sell for a huge premium. Likewise, xbox branded hard drives sell for a premium. It is actually a good metaphor.
09/16/09
I wonder why?
The biggest expense is the associated with the HD upgrade are software/firmware that was written to allow the drive to operate, the tooling for the injection molded parts, and of course the drive itself. We can make a fair guess at what the drive price range for MS is, and figuring out the rest is fairly simple and formulaic. Every Xbox Pro and Elite comes with these components, so MS's need to recoup costs at this point is nihil.
Plain and simple, they're overpriced.
As a product developer I am well aware of the costs that come with design, engineering, manufacturing, marketing and distribution. I also worked on the retail end of gaming for almost a decade and can tell you with 100% certainty that video game hardware sales only serve to destroy profit margin reports.
09/16/09
Probably because consumers accurately estimate their needs when choosing the console originally. It is pretty easy to not use a lot of space on the xbox HD.
100% certainty that video game hardware sales only serve to destroy profit margin reports
Except for the lucrative peripherals market, or is Intec making controllers for a loss? Microsoft makes this product to make money. Are they marking it up beyond costs? Yes. Is the mark up more than other companies that buy commodities, brand them and sell them at grossly inflated prices? No.
Are you upset that potato chips that cost 10c to make sell for $1.50? Are you upset that a soda that costs 15c to bottle costs $1.50? Then why are you upset that a HD that costs $40 is selling for $120?
09/16/09
You're right that Newegg has less to deal with as far as retail distribution. But let's face it, Microsoft doesn't charge reasonable prices for their accessories. Look at the $100 Wi-Fi adapter as a shining example. Competing products that do the same thing sell in retail for as little as 10 to 20 bucks regularly.
It's a source of revenue for Microsoft, plain and simple. They purposely lock out competing products that do the same thing, for the purpose of charging exorbitant prices for items consumers can find quite easily at retail.
Making a kit to put in your own bare drive in one of their enclosures would surely be doable, and it's not like the so-called "bare drives" aren't encased and protected as-is.
The bottom line is, they're just greedy, and that's all there is to it.
09/16/09
The Wii is quite approachable, and quite affordable. But I will say that I think Nintendo painted themselves into a corner with the Wii. I think they're going to be stuck in "casual gamer" market for a while, and unfortunately, casual gamers don't make for good long term customers. But that's a whole other ball of wax.
I still don't agree about the T-Shirt comparo in regards to profitability. Everyone knows that MS and Sony make absolutely no money selling hardware (consoles). Nobody does. It's just a way to get people to buy games (which are profitable for everyone). The markup on hardware (generally) doesn't exist, with this debate being one of the only (seemingly) obvious exceptions.
I feel that MS has set that price for a reason. I don't know what that reason is, but I'm willing to bet it works in their favor (even though sales of the unit are almost non-existent).
09/16/09
Microsoft is looking to make a profit here but all the posters are tarting around like no one else has ever done this before. It is called commerce and MS is doing it no differently. In fact, there are far worse offenders.
My only point has been that the outrage over this is overblown. They charge more than it costs. Not excessively more, just more. That is how we do it in the USA.
09/16/09
09/16/09
The PS3 pricing is interesting. It is cheaper if you consider that it includes so much more than the xbox, but it also forced consumers to buy what they didn't need.
It almost seems like you think manufactures shouldn't make money selling hardware. They should and I don't even think they are profiting nearly as much as any average product on the shelves of a retail store.
09/16/09
I'm sorry, I'm much more content pointing out the idiots in articles (ie you) than making stupid comments like yours.
09/17/09
I think we're all just saying that some of this will come around and bite them squarely in the ass in the next generation, as some people will remember the $100 they had to pay to get Wi-Fi, or the $150 they needed to pay so that they had space to download more stuff from Live (and pay for as well).
People vote with their dollars on stuff like this, and I think that if MS keeps this stuff up, generally people will have to consider long and hard what MS has done this generation before buying into their next one.
09/17/09
I should have clarified that by hardware I meant consoles. Profit margin for retail-sold consoles is less than 1%. Yes, peripherals are fairly profitable.
The way that you're estimating how much something "costs to make" is skewed. Under your own suggestion, I ask you to consider all that is involved with putting those chips on a shelf.
09/16/09
09/16/09
For the games?
09/16/09
Then people should LOVE the PC. All the games, none of the crappy hardware.
09/16/09
I haven't played PC games since I got my first plasma.
I don't miss having to upgrade my video card every so often either.
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Do you enjoying sending in your 360 for repairs? Cause that's what you traded off clearly.
09/16/09
Also, PCs can connect to both monitors and tvs. Little known fact.
09/16/09
Then again my real first Xbox 360 was DOA but that was because the box had gotten smashed up in shipping. Now that was a pain in the butt because they ran out of stock and ToysRUs couldn't replace it for over a month (largely because the a-holes at the Times Square location refused to replace a 360 purchased elsewhere...the manager there is a total, massive, a-hole that made me want to boycott ToysRUs for promoting d-bags like him to their flagship location. You hear that ToysRUs?)
09/17/09
As happy as I am for you, I don't think one personal anecdote makes up for the piles of evidence that clearly support the conclusion that much of the 360 hardware will default at some point in time.
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Honestly, you guys with your over-inflated sense of entitlement. Where exactly did you guys get the idea that you should be able to get a piece of hardware at a reasonable price? Psshaw.
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I'm pretty sure no one's disagreeing with either sentiment (sans fanboys).
09/16/09
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Forget that! I'm waiting for a 360 that doesn't crap out on you (RROD) within the first 6 months. Have friends who are on their 4th!
WTF? Who puts up with that shoddy quality?
09/16/09
Do you have a PC that can run games decently? because you can get LOTS of 360 games for the PC and you get the added benefit of free online play and (sometimes) more content.
If the answer to the above question is yes, then I'd recommend waiting.
If no, then how bad do you want a 360?
09/16/09
I dont really need a 360, but was thinking about getting one since I have a little bit of wedding cash still left over. If I can play the majority of the 360 games on PC, then I might just put the money towards that since I already have a PS3.
09/16/09
Balmer has stated that Natal would be a new console, not an upgrade as the developer on Jimmy Kimmel had noted. It's a shame; both this 250GB drive and the upcoming Project Natal could be add-ons, if MS only plays the bundle game, I will be torn.
09/16/09
Not to be a total wise-ass, but it looks like it's a matte finish (well, at all but the power button recess).
09/16/09
09/16/09
Yeah, my bad.
@Rosa Golijan:
Mmmm, plastic gassing off. It's good for you cause it's got like vitamins and stuff in it.
09/16/09
09/16/09
@appletoad: I had no idea those existed until you said that, now I really want all of these things (including the goggles, of course): [modernwarfare247.com]
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